Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LIX

[TheBloodyNine]

Not confusing simple math with worrying. Or Common sense with dreamers

Well start by adding up the contracts of Lundqvist (minus buy out) + Staal + Smith + Strome + ADA and go from there.

 

[NYSPORTS]

It might. New TV deal coming, supposed to be a massive increase.

heard about that yet Covid changed a lot. League took a beating. Teams likely sold, cost cutting and these franchises won’t recover overnight. That’s why the cap is supposed to be flat for likely three years.

Going to be rough so hope they can fill arenas . . yikes, by December? We’re knocking on October’s door.

 

[huerter]

I agree but what's the example of a franchise player returning fair value. Honest question because I could be missing it. But look back. Nash, Gaborik, Seguin, Hall, Karlsson, Thornton. Underwhelming and quantity come to mind. I would concede Duchene but there was 3 teams and another player involved.

I don't think we are the team closing the deal at this point but there is a pretty established value in these trades.

Weird examples. Nash we gave up a haul. Gaborik was highway robbery.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Well start by adding up the contracts of Lundqvist (minus buy out) + Staal + Smith + Strome + ADA and go from there.

lol, Laf, Kakko, Panarin, Shes, Fox, zibby, Ada, Kreider with Miller and so many coming up down the road. Everybody will get a raise and some will flirt with Panarin if all goes well. They’ll already likely lose some in a few years and you want to add an Eichel lol. You’ll need north of $95 million.

simple math

 

[RGY]

Well start by adding up the contracts of Lundqvist (minus buy out) + Staal + Smith + Strome + ADA and go from there.

Its not worth it. Once that poster has his mind up, he doesn’t back down and will impress upon you his opinions as if they are fact. We are all just “dreamers.” Comparing the Rangers to the Blackhawks...boy I’d love to be the Blackhawks, 3 Stanley Cups in 5 years. Yeah sign me up for that and the cap hell that ensues after it.


PS.... now you know how I felt last offseason when you and I went toe to toe over Panarin

 

[TheBloodyNine]

lol, Laf, Kakko, Panarin, Shes, Fox, zibby, Ada, Kreider with Miller and so many coming up down the road. Everybody will get a raise and some will flirt with Panarin if allmgors well. They’ll already likely lose some in a few years and you want to add an Eichel lol. You’ll need north of $95 million.

simple math

And hey, when the team hires you to manage their cap, you should definitely bring that up to them. But until then I think I'll just trust that if they made that move they'd figure it out. The hyperbole on this board - player value, cap issues, is always, ALWAYS worse than it actually is.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Its not worth it. Once that poster has his mind up, he doesn’t back down and will impress upon you his opinions as if they are fact. We are all just “dreamers.” Comparing the Rangers to the Blackhawks...boy I’d love to be the Blackhawks, 3 Stanley Cups in 5 years. Yeah sign me up for that and the cap hell that ensues after it.


PS.... now you know how I felt last offseason when you and I went toe to toe over Panarin

I love Panarin!

 

[mas0764]

Weird examples. Nash we gave up a haul. Gaborik was highway robbery.

Nash trade cost us two middle 6 forwards, a prospect probably on par with Zach Jones, and a later first. Strome’s 70 point pace and Buch’s borderline first line production elevate them as assets over Dubi and Anisimov. ADA would be the most valuable piece in either deal by far. Citing the Nash deal is nothing but evidence that ADA, Buch/Strome, Chytil and a first is more than fair.

 

[Avery16]

Our extra third round pick is one selection higher than it could have been. Yes

 

[NYSPORTS]

And hey, when the team hires you to manage their cap, you should definitely bring that up to them. But until then I think I'll just trust that if they made that move they'd figure it out. The hyperbole on this board - player value, cap issues, is always, ALWAYS worse than it actually is.

add Barkov to Eichel too. Math says it won’t work long term. Sry to burst your bubble but this isn’t a video game.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

add Barkov to Eichel too. Math says it won’t work long term. Sry to burst your bubble but this isn’t a video game.

Oh yeah, the classic "This isn't NHL (whatever year it is)" diss.

Well, we'll see what happens. Rangers have a TON of free space coming up, even more if they trade away the players who would need new contracts. I'm not worried about it. The sun will come up tomorrow. The Rangers aren't going to disband. They've never not gotten under the cap and nothing is going to stop them from doing so.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

Nash trade cost us two middle 6 forwards, a prospect probably on par with Zach Jones, and a later first. Strome’s 70 point pace and Buch’s borderline first line production elevate them as assets over Dubi and Anisimov. ADA would be the most valuable piece in either deal by far. Citing the Nash deal is nothing but evidence that ADA, Buch/Strome, Chytil and a first is more than fair.

I think Nash at the time was significantly worse than what Eichel is today with regards to overall value with position, age, and skill. Also, iirc, Nash specifically wanted to be a Ranger and was vocal about it. CBJ didn't have the leverage they would've liked. Maybe you can argue BUF doesn't have leverage, but so far we've yet to see Eichel be vocal about leaving and wanting to go to NYR.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Oh yeah, the classic "This isn't NHL (whatever year it is)" diss.

Well, we'll see what happens. Rangers have a TON of free space coming up, even more if they trade away the players who would need new contracts. I'm not worried about it. The sun will come up tomorrow. The Rangers aren't going to disband. They've never not gotten under the cap and nothing is going to stop them from doing so.

clap clap, thanks

 

[RGY]

Last offseason: Panarin won’t work, it won’t work, it can’t work, something, something math.

During the season: Kreider won’t work, it won’t work, it can’t work, something, something math.

This offseason: Staal is not movable, no one will take on the full salary, we’ll be lucky if a team agrees to half, something, something, math.

This has been going on for years. This management team led by Gorton continue to find ways to make players and moves work if they want them to, if they see that piece fitting the puzzle as they continue to put it together. Brassard trade, Skjei trade to name a couple. Even Stepan trade. They find ways. But let us listen to the guy on an internet forum tell us why, with absolute certainty, that something wont work.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I think Nash at the time was significantly worse than what Eichel is today with regards to overall value with position, age, and skill. Also, iirc, Nash specifically wanted to be a Ranger and was vocal about it. CBJ didn't have the leverage they would've liked. Maybe you can argue BUF doesn't have leverage, but so far we've yet to see Eichel be vocal about leaving and wanting to go to NYR.

I agree it's not the same as Nash, and Buff for sure has leverage, but the amount of leverage that they do have is hampered by a number of factors that weren't in play when Nash was traded. If there's a trade it will be better than a Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon, 1st for sure. But it won't be a 1st overall or Kakko or Fox type player in there.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Last offseason: Panarin won’t work, it won’t work, it can’t work, something, something math.

During the season: Kreider won’t work, it won’t work, it can’t work, something, something math.

This offseason: Staal is not movable, no one will take on the full salary, we’ll be lucky if a team agrees to half, something, something, math.

This has been going on for years. This management team led by Gorton continue to find ways to make players and moves work if they want them to, if they see that piece fitting the puzzle as continue to put together. Brassard trade, Skjei trade to name a couple. Even Stepan trade. They find ways. But let us listen to the guy on an internet forum tell us why, with absolute certainty, that something wont work.

lol, yeah we’ve seen something like this

and Kreider was about sticking to a rebuild. Nothing about math nor was Panarin mentioned

 

[Tawnos]

Then not sure what Blue Lines Nation is publishing. They reported the tidbit on the Return to Play rules that I didn’t know about until I read it. According to them, his NMC kicks in on 10/9. And again, I’m someone that isn’t sold on trading for Eichel. For me, a lot would depend on what is going to Buffalo in the form of salary.

Contracts turn over on 10/9, and that’s when many clauses that are set to be active for the 20-21 season would go into effect... for example, Trouba’s. That’s where that date comes from and it’s an easy mistake to make. The Kreider situation is somewhat different, and it’s the usual case that a player signing an extension will have their new clauses go into effect right away.

The RTP rules have nothing to do with it really. What they’re reporting is correct for most cases, but it isn’t for Kreider.

 

[Inferno]

Between smith, Henrik, and shattenkirk the rangers have like 20 million bucks in cap space coming off the books after next year (of Henrik isn't bought out).

I'm not super concerned about that salary till kakko and lafreniere are up for new deals.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

I agree it's not the same as Nash, and Buff for sure has leverage, but the amount of leverage that they do have is hampered by a number of factors that weren't in play when Nash was traded. If there's a trade it will be better than a Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon, 1st for sure. But it won't be a 1st overall or Kakko or Fox type player in there.

I agree, but there’s plenty of room beyond ADA, Chytil, Kravstov and #22 without going to Kakko, Laf, or Fox. But I dunno.

 

[RGY]

SCF are over and its now showtime for the Rangers. The focus of the NHL turns to us. Going to be an exciting next 2-3 weeks.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

Between smith, Henrik, and shattenkirk the rangers have like 20 million bucks in cap space coming off the books after next year (of Henrik isn't bought out).

I'm not super concerned about that salary till kakko and lafreniere are up for new deals.

I’m sure we’d find a way to bridge them. The bigger concern is Igor. I’d like to lock him up long term sooner rather than later.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Quick, what's the Rangers equivalent of Berglund, Sobotka, Thompson, a 1st and a 2nd?

Ryan O’Reily

 

[Kovalev27]

I feel like it’s bittersweet. The league did an amazing job here but feels like a lot of damage done and doesn’t seem like we are going to see a game again for a long time. Can’t wait for the draft but when do we see these guys competing again I don’t know. Feels like minimum January and even then it might only be 50 games or so.

 

[n8]

Of course. And I'm not looking to trade either of them

The rangers aren't in a position to trade away major cost controll assets.

The framework I'd use is what's above...

DeAngelo, buchnevich, 22, prospect (robertson for example)

That's what we need to be looking at.

2 roster players a pick and a prospect...like universally the accepted return for a franchise player

I think that prospect would have to be at least Kravtsov. I have a hard time believing Buffalo would take anything close to what you have. Also, I don't think DeAngelo + Buch is enough to move the needle on our end regarding cap. Actually with the Staal trade, I'm sort of out of touch where we are regarding cap. I guess if ADA signs an extension for $5M, then ADA + Buch about balances out. Still, I don't think there's any chance Buffalo takes that package. As much as I like those players, it has "embarassing failure" written all over it. Buffalo really needed to pony up and sign Laviolette this offseason but they totally snoozed on that one.

 

[duhmetreE]

What's this in reference to? Are there OTT rumors out there?

from the boards sources