Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LIX

[Levitate]

2 roster players a pick and a prospect...like universally the accepted return for a franchise player

See this is at least a reasonable take on it. People will say it's not fair value but over and over again you rarely see teams get "fair value" for star players, because if they're trading them then they're over the barrel for some reason and other teams can't afford some massive package to send back anyways

 

[RGY]

Some of the comments in this thread are too funny.

But the one I found to be the most outrageously comical is “We don’t need Jack Eichel”.

ROFL. Its one thing if you dont want to pay the acquisition cost and/or you are weary of the $10 million AAV, but to say that we dont need a 23 year old star center is absolutely bonkers and gets you a one-way ticket to the funny farm.

I have stated I am on the fence for Eichel. But lets not act like we only have a couple legit prospects. Lets also not act like these prospects are anything more than that at the moment. You simply cannot prospect hug everyone. The Yankees have made that mistake. Not everyone can play. I love Kravtsov. I think he has legit scoring potential. I really like Chytil. But these kids have proven nothing yet and they may never prove they can reach the heights some of you hope for.

A package of DeAngelo, Strome, Chytil/Kravtsov, 2021 1st is a very good package. We could add another prospect (Hajek) and/or pick and that is many, many pieces for Buffalo to build on. Not many teams can offer that level of pieces. Meanwhile the Rangers system would still have Kakko, Lafreniere, Barron, Lundkvist, Henriksson, Jones, Miller, Robertson, Khodorenko, Pajuniemi, Wall, Lias, etc.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Good thing we got a ton of them.

yeah, but with a flat cap and this many stars we can’t pay all of them.

 

[LORDE]

Breaking news: Rangers should not have given Kreider that contract. Should have traded him for a haul at last deadline.

Hate to say it but I felt this way then and still do... I feel that the player (who’s Jersey I own) would not be worth the $ going forward...

 

[RangersFan1994]

How nice would it be to have Mikhail Sergachev paired with Trouba. I don’t want Jack Eichel. Let’s try to solidify our LD.

why not solidify the LD with a draft pick making the team like Miller who could take Staal's spot on the roster. instead of trading for someone's cap problem. id rather develop that position or trade for a Lindgren type ( a young p)ayer ready or close to being ready to make it)

 

[NYSPORTS]

why not solidify the LD with a surprise draft pick making the team like instead of trading for someone's cap problem. id rather develop that position or trade for a Lindgren type ( a young p)ayer ready or close to being ready to make it)

like

 

[MysticLeviathan]

The only entity that benefited from all of the details in the McKenzie tweet is Buffalo. The trade demand smears Eichel. The Ranger leak blows up their spot and reveals their plans. The tweet starts the bidding, blames Eichel for the coming trade, and naming the rangers drives up price. They have the best asset in the draft and $5.7m in new cap space.

Gorton doesn't release info. Eichel's agent isn't privy to trade talk. If you trade your franchise player, you do it at the start of your new GM's tenure. The Pegulas have no idea how to run a hockey team and feel betrayed by traditional hockey minds. Who knows what they are thinking and how much money is a factor.

Based on historical returns, the trade is 3 to 4 pieces. If we ended up doing it: ADA, Chytil/Buchnevich, Howden/Kravtsov, #22.

If that's what the Rangers have to give up, I don't know how they say no. That's an absolute steal. The cap hit is perfectly reasonable for a guy of his age, position, and skill. We keep our big pieces and improve drastically, yet we still have some pieces left to make moves to fix the left side. Rangers become significantly better while not blowing up their future.

And that's why I can't possibly see this as realistic. This seems like way too much of a bargain for the Rangers.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

Of course. And I'm not looking to trade either of them

The rangers aren't in a position to trade away major cost controll assets.

The framework I'd use is what's above...

DeAngelo, buchnevich, 22, prospect (robertson for example)

That's what we need to be looking at.

2 roster players a pick and a prospect...like universally the accepted return for a franchise player

That framework is fine, but those pieces aren't close to the value of an Eichel. ADA is legit, but Buch is a middle 6 guy, the 1st round pick is late in the round, and unless the prospect is Kravstov , it's a huge risk, and even Kravstov is far from a guarantee. Robertson is very much middle of the road. Eichel would need to be demanding to be out and specifically targeting the Rangers to get a deal like that.

 

[Trxjw]

Gonna catch flak for this but while Eichel is very good I don't think he's as good as people are making him out to be here. I wouldn't consider him "elite" yet if he can't stay healthy and his career high is 82 points

I also think you do have to take into consideration the optics of selling the fanbase on the future of the franchise being these home grown high draft picks like Kakko and Lafreniere and then turning around and trading them away for another disgruntled "superstar" (like we haven't seen that before).

I admit I'm coming down heavily on the pessimistic side of this but with so many people ready to hop up and trade a massive package for Eichel including the #1 overall and highly talented important roster players etc is like watching the Rangers fans of yesteryear getting excited about whatever player they sign on free agency day

I don't think it's an outlandish stance to take but you gotta keep in mind the team he's on. He has very little help offensively and the team has been a general train wreck involving bad coaching, front office overhauls and ownership changes since he got there.

Also, I don't think there are too many people around here advocating for trading pieces like the 1st overall, Kakko, etc. I think most of us feel like we'd jump on it if the deal was ADA, Buch/Chytil, 22, and a prospect and we'd balk at anything involving those premium young players like Laf, Kakko, Fox, Igor, etc. In fact I'd go as far as to say I wince a little bit at even including Chytil over Buch since we don't really have anyone in the pipeline who looks like they could take over for the inevitable Zibanejad departure.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

yeah, but with a flat cap and this many stars we can’t pay all of them.

They'll figure it out. I'm pretty sure these guys don't make a move without thinking a few years in advance. Fans worry way too much about the cap. Staal just got traded with no retention whatsoever - 5.7 million gone. Henrik is retiring or getting bought out. Smith done next year. They can fill in spots with ELC players since they've been stocking up on them for the last few years. Eventually the cap is going to go up. This isn't an impulse buy.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

That framework is fine, but those pieces aren't close to the value of an Eichel. ADA is legit, but Buch is a middle 6 guy, the 1st round pick is late in the round, and unless the prospect is Kravstov , it's a huge risk, and even Kravstov is far from a guarantee. Robertson is very much middle of the road. Eichel would need to be demanding to be out and specifically targeting the Rangers to get a deal like that.

No trade for him is going to equal his pure value because this trade isn't happening in a vacuum. Many things factor in to determine value.

 

[NYSPORTS]

They'll figure it out. I'm pretty sure these guys don't make a move without thinking a few years in advance. Fans worry way too much about the cap. Staal just got traded with no retention whatsoever - 5.7 million gone. Henrik is retiring or getting bought out. Smith done next year. They can fill in spots with ELC players since they've been stocking up on them for the last few years. Eventually the cap is going to go up. This isn't an impulse buy.

like Chicago did right?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

like Chicago did right?

Not sure what you're getting at here. Chicago situation isnt equal to ours at all.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

No trade for him is going to equal his pure value because this trade isn't happening in a vacuum. Many things factor in to determine value.

I kinda disagree. Add in a Kakko, add in extra 1st round picks, those players on top of the framework of ADA, Buch/Strome, Kravstov, and the #22 pick and you start seeing a trade that equates the value of a Jack Eichel. And I'm 100% against adding Kakko or Laf to any deal, but unless you plan on unloading the farm/1st rounders, then the trade would be terrible value for Buffalo imo.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Not sure what you're getting at here. Chicago situation isnt equal to ours at all.

yeah, we would have more stars with a flat cap so more issues

 

[TheBloodyNine]

yeah, we would have more stars with a flat cap so more issues

Ok the cap is going to be flat for 2 years, it's not going to be flat forever.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Ok the cap is going to be flat for 2 years, it's not going to be flat forever.

Roll out the Rangers roster and salaries. It’s not going to skyrocket in 3 years either

 

[NYR94]

Quick, what's the Rangers equivalent of Berglund, Sobotka, Thompson, a 1st and a 2nd?

 

[DutchShamrock]

If that's what the Rangers have to give up, I don't know how they say no. That's an absolute steal. The cap hit is perfectly reasonable for a guy of his age, position, and skill. We keep our big pieces and improve drastically, yet we still have some pieces left to make moves to fix the left side. Rangers become significantly better while not blowing up their future.

And that's why I can't possibly see this as realistic. This seems like way too much of a bargain for the Rangers.

I agree but what's the example of a franchise player returning fair value. Honest question because I could be missing it. But look back. Nash, Gaborik, Seguin, Hall, Karlsson, Thornton. Underwhelming and quantity come to mind. I would concede Duchene but there was 3 teams and another player involved.

I don't think we are the team closing the deal at this point but there is a pretty established value in these trades.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I kinda disagree. Add in a Kakko, add in extra 1st round picks, those players on top of the framework of ADA, Buch/Strome, Kravstov, and the #22 pick and you start seeing a trade that equates the value of a Jack Eichel. And I'm 100% against adding Kakko or Laf to any deal, but unless you plan on unloading the farm/1st rounders, then the trade would be terrible value for Buffalo imo.

You have to factor in that very few teams can trade for him to start, so you're pool of suitors is incredibly low. Then factor in that he wants out. Then factor in that the economic climate we are in provides more incentive for penny-pinching-Pegula to trade and cuts out even more teams. He might as well have a full NTC. Taking all those factors together is going to significantly effect the return.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Roll out the Rangers roster and salaries. It’s not going to skyrocket in 3 years either

I guess that's something for the people who make the decisions to worry about. You're better off worrying about whether or not the suns gonna come up tomorrow you have the exact amount of control over that than how the Rangers spend their cap space. We have no control over what the team will do and what moves they make. If they make this move, they are not making it shortsightedly. Even Edge has said it, fans worry way more about that cap than actual teams do.

 

[ETTER DE]

I simply do not understand this. Rangers rebuild because they do not have enough elite talent. Panarin can be signed for free and half the board do not want him. Eichel is an elite center on a good contract. 5 years of control in his prime. And half the board do not want to pay the price it will take.

 

[mas0764]

I kinda disagree. Add in a Kakko, add in extra 1st round picks, those players on top of the framework of ADA, Buch/Strome, Kravstov, and the #22 pick and you start seeing a trade that equates the value of a Jack Eichel. And I'm 100% against adding Kakko or Laf to any deal, but unless you plan on unloading the farm/1st rounders, then the trade would be terrible value for Buffalo imo.

Buffalo is not getting a haul like you are describing from anyone.

 

[NYSPORTS]

I guess that's something for the people who make the decisions to worry about. You're better off worrying about whether or not the suns gonna come up tomorrow you have the exact amount of control over that than how the Rangers spend their cap space. We have no control over what the team will do and what moves they make. If they make this move, they are not making it shortsightedly. Even Edge has said it, fans worry way more about that cap than actual teams do.

Not confusing simple math with worrying. Or Common sense with dreamers

 

[mas0764]

Roll out the Rangers roster and salaries. It’s not going to skyrocket in 3 years either

It might. New TV deal coming, supposed to be a massive increase.