Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LIV

[Off Sides]

I don't see why the Rangers can't basically have Lemieux play for his qualifier buying them and him another year to show what he is or is not. It not like he is a threat to get a big raise even if it ends up in arbitration.

 

[NYRangers16]

I can understand the bridge to both ADA and Buch. Neither had proven a ton on their entry levels, there were still questions.

However in ADA's case he has risen his game to exactly what a team would want from a bridge. I have no idea why the Rangers would trade that type of player away. He is a dynamic offensive force who can change games.

Buch has a year left under contract, if he ends up doing something similar, then it probably should not be in question either.

Using up cap space on the recently often referenced depth players should take a back seat in importance. The Rangers are not depth/role players away from being a complete team.

But bridging them cost us years and future cap. I'm hoping they only bridged them due to the rebuild. But in the future we are going to need quality players on below FA prices.

 

[Off Sides]

But bridging them cost us years and future cap. I'm hoping they only bridged them due to the rebuild. But in the future we are going to need quality players on below FA prices.

I believe they bridged them because they did not know what they were at the time.

I think one can make the argument they should have forseen that ADA had the talent to be really good offensively and therefor they could have offered him something long term. Yet on the other side one could argue that ADA knew what he was and would not have given them much if any of a discount given the Rangers were not throwing much praise his way either in the press or in playing time. All the Rangers have done is put RDs in front of him the entire time he's been with them.

Buch showed in my opinion even less at the time of his bridge. Again I think he has the talent but there was still question marks, still are question marks about his consistency.

 

[Edge]

when it comes to 'close but no cigar' I think you also need to consider the expectations. we've heard several times people bring up tom wilson like thats an easy thing. beyond the size comparison that you mentioned above. people need to realize that wilson is a top 6 forward. 4th among caps forwards in TOI, is on the pp and the pk and was on pace for 25 g/53 p. There is an enormous gap between lemieux 12 minutes a night on the 4th line and tom wilson.

lemieux could 'put it all together' and become a tremendous bottom 6 players that helps this team win and still never sniff the level tom wilson is at...

Truth be told, Tom Wilson was never really on my radar.

I was hoping for a solid third liner who chipped in 15 goals and 35 points, annoyed the hell out of the competition, and helped keep opponents off-balance.

If he’s tier below that, that has value as well. Though he needs work to get there, and it would be a little disappointing.

 

[Off Sides]

Lemieux has a good chance at being a cheap agitator who is not without some level of skill. Rangers love to overpay for just that and sometime without the skill portion. I don't see why they just don't keep him and pay him accordingly instead of overpaying for that in the not too distance future.

 

[Crease]

I feel like Lemieux is the kind of player who will be more effective later in his career, when bruises take longer to heal and he’s forced to focus on the hockey aspects of the game. His dad needs to teach him the phrase “there’s a time and a place.”

 

[Mac n Gs]

I’d like Lemieux a lot more if he focused on simplifying his game and leaned into his skillset more. He has the toolkit to be a high-end 4th liner that can play on a 3rd line if needed. If I had to predict an offensive ceiling, in the right situation, I’d cap him at around 30 points as a 15-15 guy.

I can imagine him asking for more since we squeezed him on his last deal, but I wouldn’t offer more than $1.6MAAV on a 2 year deal. If he outperforms that, he can shoot for a Hagelin-esque deal after we sent him to Anaheim.

 

[n8]

Martin already coached his father, now he gets to coach the son.

maybe he has the secret! I got curious and looked it up. Looks like Martin was assistant coach on the Avs from 1990–96. Interesting, the other assistant coach was Quenneville.
What's sad is they won the Stanley Cup that year but Martin bounced mid-season to Ottawa for the HC position there.
He took Ottawa to their first playoffs and got them their first Presidents trophy but lost his job because they lost to the Leafs in the playoffs 4x in 5 years.
Anyways, I'm hoping he can just make this team much much better overall.

 

[egelband]

Lemieux's always been more of a yapper than a Wilson type anyway

I think Lemieux is very tough. He’s just not ‘easy’ tough. Some players don’t have to work at being tough. Like Messier. Like McQuaid. Some players have to work harder at it and it shortens their careers. I think Lemieux is in the latter group.

 

[egelband]

I assume he’s smaller because he’s actually a massive p***y who doesn’t pick on people his own size

I’ve said it a bunch but Lemieux or Tony would drop him in a fight

I dislike Wilson a lot. But he’s legit tough and has fought a lot of heavyweights. He also seems to relish hitting AAAA type players in their heads. While they’re trying to get a career going. Which is f***ing gross. But the guy is big and bad too.

And regardless, I don’t want him on my team. Believe it or not.

 

[egelband]

Oh I know but that's not the reason why I doubt Lemieux could play that type of game. I don't think Brendan's hockey IQ is quite there. He's closer to a Chris Neil type of game but he's young so his development is still up in the air. I think the best things he could do for his career would be to work on his skating A LOT and work with Martin to be a good defensive player. His talents lie in board work, driving to the net, and agitating opponents.

Tom Wilson and Chris Neil. Two of my most disliked players ever.

 

[egelband]

Truth be told, Tom Wilson was never really on my radar.

I was hoping for a solid third liner who chipped in 15 goals and 35 points, annoyed the hell out of the competition, and helped keep opponents off-balance.

If he’s tier below that, that has value as well. Though he needs work to get there, and it would be a little disappointing.

I think Tom Wilson in the top six has a very good chance of disrupting the top six. Unless your coach is Dr. Robotnik.

 

[n8]

Tom Wilson and Chris Neil. Two of my most disliked players ever.

yeah, players you hate but you'd love someone like that on your team. Preferably not those exact players you overpaid for though.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Similar to Avery, Lemieux is most effective when prioritizing hockey over being a pest.

Avery averaged about 40P a year from age 25-30. That’s quality production for a middle 6 winger that plays with an edge who can literally change the momentum of a game.

Avery was his own worst enemy at times though, to the point where his stupidity hurt instead of helped his team.

Hopefully Lemieux can find that balance.

 

[Avery16]

Similar to Avery, Lemieux is most effective when prioritizing hockey over being a pest.

Avery averaged about 40P a year from age 25-30. That’s quality production for a middle 6 winger that plays with an edge who can literally change the momentum of a game.

Avery was his own worst enemy at times though, to the point where his stupidity hurt instead of helped his team.

Hopefully Lemieux can find that balance.

Better and more-mature players than Avery still found themselves on the wrong side of Torts. They may both be "pests", but Lemieux is not like Avery. Avery was a more effective pest, he did not hit to injure, and he had higher offensive ability. Lemieux will also not struggle with Quinn like Avery struggled with Tortorella.

 

[Avery16]

NHL Rumor Mill – September 10, 2020 | Spectors Hockey

Haggerty speculates Sweeney could look to within to bolster his lineup by promoting Trent Frederic and Jack Studnicka into full-time roles next season. Making room for those two could mean moving out a winger like Jake DeBrusk. He’s a restricted free agent due for a significant raise but also an inconsistent scorer who managed just two points in 10 playoff games last month.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I’m higher on Lemieux’s offensive game than most but Avery had like a legit top-6 skill set. Lemieux doesn’t really have that.

 

[gravey9]

Here's what I hope the Rangers plan is for the rest of the off-season into next season.

1. Keep the team mostly as is other than prospects fighting for roles (barron, kravtsov, robertson, miller and all the UDFAs)

2. Target 1-2 prospects for #22. And look to trade up to get said player. Don't settle for the consolation pick.

3. Find a way for Hank to retire or leave in an honorable way. Get that contract off the books.

4. See if anyone financially struggling might want Staal or Smith. I believe both have signing bonuses and after those are paid out, they may be attractive to cost cutting teams becuase their salary cap hit will be significantly higher than their final season salaries.

5. See if anything falls off the trees. Klefbom, Dvorak, etc. Wait for other teams to get into financial trouble and then force their hand a bit. Then make a deal but not before. There is absolutely no need to rush. Next season is very much transitional. Cusp playoff team who lets the young players continue to emerge. And we continue to fill our needs internally.

6. Re-sign Strome, ADA and Buch to bridge deals unless there's a can't miss upgrade.

7. Do not swap out Strome for another stop-gap 2c. It's a lateral move. Plus, I just don't think we can spend much on a 2C with Panarin, Kreider, Kakko, Laf, Fox and Shesterkin all either making bank now or within a few seasons.

8. Be open to moving ADA, Buch and Georgy, but only if it means upgrading at C or LD. Avoid at all costs, dumping one of these guys just for cap reasons. Instead deal with Smith, Staal and Hank if you don't have the cap space to pay the former or anyone procured via trade.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

I don't see why the Rangers can't basically have Lemieux play for his qualifier buying them and him another year to show what he is or is not. It not like he is a threat to get a big raise even if it ends up in arbitration.

Couldn’t agree more. Though know one knows the future with certainty it is safe to assess that at the conclusion of the 2020/21 season there will be less dollars to be spent on players contracts due to massive teams revenue losses and the extension of the flat cap. Why pay more now when the same or improved product will be available later at a greater discount. Simple supply and demand thesis with a heavy emphasis on the lack of demand side.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Aside from being the New York Rangers and obviously being a popular destination, I think we'll be a popular destination for free agents (specifically forwards and even more specifically centers) who may be looking to rebuild their values (i.e. guys who want but can't get long-term deals so will have to settle for 1-2 year deals).

I'm going to assume a few things: Say we trade Strome in a deal for a LD (hypothetically). Let's assume we don't trade Buchnevich and the first line is the KZB line. Let's assume we don't re-sign Fast. And I'm also going to assume that Chytil moves to RW full-time next year, which will leave us in desperate need of a 2C and a 3C.

So why would centers want to come here on short-term deals? Say Mikael Granlund can't find a long-term contract in a flat-cap year (feasible).

Well, look who he'd possibly be playing with:

Panarin - 'nuff said
Kakko - poised to break out and a native countryman of Granlund
Lafreniere - first overall pick
Chytil - up-and-comer
Gauthier - has the size and skill to be exceptional
Kravtsov - IDK when/if he'll return, but we know the skill is there


We have the talent on the wing to make the C look good. Now, with the exception of Panarin, they're raw and inexperienced. That's true. But for a C who is looking to cash in on essentially commandeering a line of youngsters, it's a prime opportunity.

 

[Ola]

So if Dallas wins the Cup and the copy catying continues — what exactly will everyone try to model? Sign/trade for +30 OTH veteran forwards?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Lemiuex probably needs to model his game after Cizikas or Komarov to be effective in this league. Doubtful he could ever turn into a Tom Wilson type.

Tom Wilson is a unique specimen in today's NHL. Back-to-back 20 goal seasons for a player with his skillset is quite something

 

[Ola]

Here's what I hope the Rangers plan is for the rest of the off-season into next season.

1. Keep the team mostly as is other than prospects fighting for roles (barron, kravtsov, robertson, miller and all the UDFAs)

2. Target 1-2 prospects for #22. And look to trade up to get said player. Don't settle for the consolation pick.

3. Find a way for Hank to retire or leave in an honorable way. Get that contract off the books.

4. See if anyone financially struggling might want Staal or Smith. I believe both have signing bonuses and after those are paid out, they may be attractive to cost cutting teams becuase their salary cap hit will be significantly higher than their final season salaries.

5. See if anything falls off the trees. Klefbom, Dvorak, etc. Wait for other teams to get into financial trouble and then force their hand a bit. Then make a deal but not before. There is absolutely no need to rush. Next season is very much transitional. Cusp playoff team who lets the young players continue to emerge. And we continue to fill our needs internally.

6. Re-sign Strome, ADA and Buch to bridge deals unless there's a can't miss upgrade.

7. Do not swap out Strome for another stop-gap 2c. It's a lateral move. Plus, I just don't think we can spend much on a 2C with Panarin, Kreider, Kakko, Laf, Fox and Shesterkin all either making bank now or within a few seasons.

8. Be open to moving ADA, Buch and Georgy, but only if it means upgrading at C or LD. Avoid at all costs, dumping one of these guys just for cap reasons. Instead deal with Smith, Staal and Hank if you don't have the cap space to pay the former or anyone procured via trade.

Great stuff!!

I agree with everything, with the caveat that I am certainly not against a long-term deal for TDA if it can be done on acceptable terms. Which of course can’t be counted on with someone with arbitration rights. Unfortunately we are at a bit of a lose/lose scenario with Buch when his contract is up after 20/21...

 

[Ola]

@gravey9 I think what your plan really captures so well is that, sure there can be opportunities this summer for Gorton, but there will/should be even more opportunities next summer.

It’s not going to get easier for teams with cap issues. The cap will remain flat. If we are patient good stuff should come out of it.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I don't see why the Rangers can't basically have Lemieux play for his qualifier buying them and him another year to show what he is or is not. It not like he is a threat to get a big raise even if it ends up in arbitration.

1. A player has to sign his qualifying offer
2. Lemieux is arbitration eligible