Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LIV

[n8]

If Lemieux is in your top 9 your top 9 isn’t good enough.

he’s a solid 4LW though but needs to be paid as such. Let’s see if that happens

Lemiuex probably needs to model his game after Cizikas or Komarov to be effective in this league. Doubtful he could ever turn into a Tom Wilson type.

 

[egelband]

Doubtful. Equivalent value is probably a second rounder at this point, or another player in his age range who is still trying to put the pieces together.

Yeah. I think I’d just keep him. I assume most would agree.

 

[egelband]

Lemiuex probably needs to model his game after Cizikas or Komarov to be effective in this league. Doubtful he could ever turn into a Tom Wilson type.

Yeah. He’s just not built that way. He’s tough, for sure, but Wilson is a giant. The thing about Wilson is that he makes space, and makes his presences felt, with very little effort. He’s not spent after every shift.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Lemiuex probably needs to model his game after Cizikas or Komarov to be effective in this league. Doubtful he could ever turn into a Tom Wilson type.

Lemieux's always been more of a yapper than a Wilson type anyway

 

[Edge]

I’m off the Virtanen train unless he comes on the super cheap.

Interestingly enough, despite the ongoing discussion, I think the vast majority of posters all agree that they aren’t going to break the bank for Virtanen.

The debate might be what people consider “super cheap.”

 

[charliemurphy]

Yeah. I think I’d just keep him. I assume most would agree.

Not sure if anyone has his stats but Lemieux does produce when given enough time but I agree and see him as a 4th liner. I think the trick is try and envision him as a 4th liner on a cup contending team which I think he's capable of being. Need players like him but then again at what price.

 

[charliemurphy]

Interestingly enough, despite the ongoing discussion, I think the vast majority of posters all agree that they aren’t going to break the bank for Virtanen.

The debate might be what people consider “super cheap.”

Like a 2021 2nd rounder super cheap? lol

 

[Trxjw]

The skill gap between Strome or Miller and Virtanen is immense and always has been. Strome and Miller are playmakers and Virtanen is a north south bull. The only thing they all have in common is being first round picks.

I’m off the Virtanen train unless he comes on the super cheap.

Hence the reason I said "in the mold of" and not "clone of" in my post. Virtanen is a straight-ahead player who can score and hit. Those are skills the same way Strome and Miller are good puck distributors. Nobody here is advocating giving up a fortune or expecting him to be something he's not. The team could use more north-south players who can bring some bite to the lineup. Virtanen fits that style and is an interesting option at the right price.

 

[Edge]

Lemiuex probably needs to model his game after Cizikas or Komarov to be effective in this league. Doubtful he could ever turn into a Tom Wilson type.

I think people forget how big of a boy Tom Wilson is.

Because he plays as a nuisance, I think people assume he’s smaller. But this is a 6’3-6’4, 215-220 pound dude.

We’re talking someone in the Shanahan/Probert size range.

That’s a rare breed.

 

[QJL]

Hence the reason I said "in the mold of" and not "clone of" in my post. Virtanen is a straight-ahead player who can score and hit. Those are skills the same way Strome and Miller are good puck distributors. Nobody here is advocating giving up a fortune or expecting him to be something he's not. The team could use more north-south players who can bring some bite to the lineup. Virtanen fits that style and is an interesting option at the right price.

Mold in this sense means “a distinctive or typical style, form, or character”. In other words I read it as “similar player”. I get what you mean now, just recommend wording it differently.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I think people forget how big of a boy Tom Wilson is.

Because he plays as a nuisance, I think people assume he’s smaller. But this is a 6’3-6’4, 215-220 pound dude.

We’re talking someone in the Shanahan/Probert size range.

That’s a rare breed.

I assume he’s smaller because he’s actually a massive p***y who doesn’t pick on people his own size

I’ve said it a bunch but Lemieux or Tony would drop him in a fight

 

[Trxjw]

Mold in this sense means “a distinctive or typical style, form, or character”. In other words I read it as “similar player”. I get what you mean now, just recommend wording it differently.

That's a very literal interpretation of a common expression but to each their own.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Interestingly enough, despite the ongoing discussion, I think the vast majority of posters all agree that they aren’t going to break the bank for Virtanen.

The debate might be what people consider “super cheap.”

It also begs the question of who else gets exposed if we add him plus whatever his contract ask might be. There’s a lot of questions for a player Vancouver might be just willing to walk away from.

 

[jay from jersey]

Actually he's not. He played exceptionally well in the playoffs and at the right price he is a 4th line bargain. The Coyotes will be looking to move him because he's not Tocchet's kind of guy.

Agree to disagree . Playoff performance not withstanding. He’s not going to get the kind of minutes on this squad

 

[jay from jersey]

The point is that if taking Grabner’s money back for one season is something AZ asks to facilitate a deal where we land Dvorak, I don’t have an issue with Grabner being a depth role player for one year. Nowhere in that post did I say anything about Grabner still being any kind of asset himself, I just don’t mind him coming the other way if that’s what gets the deal done.

Ah I see my fault I read it wrong. Would hate for grabs to take a spot from a kid but if it brings Dvorak I could live with him for 1 year

 

[Raspewtin]

I assume he’s smaller because he’s actually a massive p***y who doesn’t pick on people his own size

I’ve said it a bunch but Lemieux or Tony would drop him in a fight

Lemieux literally beat him in a fight this year

Wilson looks like he’s a good fighter because he swings and flails really hard but his technique sucks

 

[egelband]

Not sure if anyone has his stats but Lemieux does produce when given enough time but I agree and see him as a 4th liner. I think the trick is try and envision him as a 4th liner on a cup contending team which I think he's capable of being. Need players like him but then again at what price.

Absolutely. I think Lemmy, like Fast, is a winning player. But unlike Fast, we’ve got a few years until the call on Lemmy has to be made.

 

[egelband]

View attachment 366802 However, I may have to rescind comments about Buch’s availability. Loving this guys new look.

I know stealing is bad but I love that Buch gives what he steals to the poor. Life is tough in Sherwood Forest.

 

[egelband]

I just think Smith is far too important to this team right now (Unfortunately) to flip him for Grabner.

Smith playing even 3rd pairing level for us next year will make a huge difference.

Agreed. He’s overpaid, but otherwise a very useful player. We’ve been through the wilderness with him, too. So I think we might as well get his contract year, as well.

 

[Off Sides]

The key is to identify the guys early enough that you want to invest in. For instance I bet we could have TDA on a much more affordable long term contract last offseason - now it's too late. Same with Buch. The bridge deals really don't let you keep a player long term once FA comes around.

Yes, you can get in trouble this way too, but like with Skjei or eve Tampa with Johnson or Killorn, it's not like there won't be takers when the player is young. The cap trouble comes later when it's guys like Staal or Lundqvist.

I can understand the bridge to both ADA and Buch. Neither had proven a ton on their entry levels, there were still questions.

However in ADA's case he has risen his game to exactly what a team would want from a bridge. I have no idea why the Rangers would trade that type of player away. He is a dynamic offensive force who can change games.

Buch has a year left under contract, if he ends up doing something similar, then it probably should not be in question either.

Using up cap space on the recently often referenced depth players should take a back seat in importance. The Rangers are not depth/role players away from being a complete team.

 

[n8]

I think people forget how big of a boy Tom Wilson is.

Because he plays as a nuisance, I think people assume he’s smaller. But this is a 6’3-6’4, 215-220 pound dude.

We’re talking someone in the Shanahan/Probert size range.

That’s a rare breed.

Oh I know but that's not the reason why I doubt Lemieux could play that type of game. I don't think Brendan's hockey IQ is quite there. He's closer to a Chris Neil type of game but he's young so his development is still up in the air. I think the best things he could do for his career would be to work on his skating A LOT and work with Martin to be a good defensive player. His talents lie in board work, driving to the net, and agitating opponents.

 

[Edge]

Oh I know but that's not the reason why I doubt Lemieux could play that type of game. I don't think Brendan's hockey IQ is quite there. He's closer to a Chris Neil type of game but he's young so his development is still up in the air. I think the best things he could do for his career would be to work on his skating A LOT and work with Martin to be a good defensive player. His talents lie in board work, driving to the net, and agitating opponents.

I agree with all of that as well. While I am not yet completely convinced he can’t work his way into a third line role, admittedly I have serious doubts at this point.

I’d love for Lemieux to take that next step in his development. But I’ve seen some of these concerns for 7 years and across 3 leagues at this point. My gut reaction tells me that he’s going to be a “close but no cigar” type player.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

For the record, I am more than ok with Lemieux being a 4th liner, as long as he’s paid commiserate. We need them as well.

 

[Leetch3]

I agree with all of that as well. While I am not yet completely convinced he can’t work his way into a third line role, admittedly I have serious doubts at this point.

I’d love for Lemieux to take that next step in his development. But I’ve seen some of these concerns for 7 years and across 3 leagues at this point. My gut reaction tells me that he’s going to be a “close but not cigar” type player.

when it comes to 'close but no cigar' I think you also need to consider the expectations. we've heard several times people bring up tom wilson like thats an easy thing. beyond the size comparison that you mentioned above. people need to realize that wilson is a top 6 forward. 4th among caps forwards in TOI, is on the pp and the pk and was on pace for 25 g/53 p. There is an enormous gap between lemieux 12 minutes a night on the 4th line and tom wilson.

lemieux could 'put it all together' and become a tremendous bottom 6 players that helps this team win and still never sniff the level tom wilson is at...

 

[RGY]

Oh I know but that's not the reason why I doubt Lemieux could play that type of game. I don't think Brendan's hockey IQ is quite there. He's closer to a Chris Neil type of game but he's young so his development is still up in the air. I think the best things he could do for his career would be to work on his skating A LOT and work with Martin to be a good defensive player. His talents lie in board work, driving to the net, and agitating opponents.

Martin already coached his father, now he gets to coach the son.