Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LIV

[Leetch3]

Just because you day they're incredibly similar to Hayes and Vesey doesn't make it so. Vesey was Hobie Baker winner. Kevin Hayes was a first round draft pick. Neither of the two you mentioned can say that.

It's very easy to decide that Barron and Richards are ready to step into the lineup. But there's nothing to show that they are.

kevin hayes was also a 1st round pick, vesey a 3rd round pick....big difference when those guys become free agents compared to a non-drafted guy. there have been plenty of non-drafted guys that have had good careers and sometimes guys are late bloomers but there is usually a reason they didn't get drafted.

 

[cwede]

... could easily take a step backwards if they commit a bunch of unknowns or AAAA players to the bottom six.

i never said commit ...
however, no need to commit early to marginal, easily replaced NHL journeymen (Haley, McKegg, etc)
IF they need to fill some spots, marketplace will be flooded w bottom-6 NHL Fs

 

[Edge]

Richards and Barron are incredibly similar to Vesey and Hayes. One less year of college played, better defensively, better intangibles with less offensive game in college. Vesey and Hayes never played an AHL game. I don't expect Richards and Barron to either. Our role players have been pathetic the past few years. Especially defensively. Watching Fast, he embarrasses the role players we have on this team. Our current role players are just plain stupid defensively. They aren't in the right place most of the time. They have no defensive instincts. They don't break up plays. They don't block a lot of shots. They aren't good on the PK unit. Barron and Richards can help change that.

I don't think they are very similar at all --- in style, in approach, in how they're viewed, in their roles, in their upside, in their abilities, in their strengths, nor their weaknesses.

Sometimes I have to remind myself that we're talking about Justin Richards here because the descriptions and expectations the last two pages are just...really interesting.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

kevin hayes was also a 1st round pick, vesey a 3rd round pick....big difference when those guys become free agents compared to a non-drafted guy. there have been plenty of non-drafted guys that have had good careers and sometimes guys are late bloomers but there is usually a reason they didn't get drafted.

Right. I mentioned that Hayes was a first round pick. For some reason I thought Barrons was also a third round pick, but was mistaken.

There's a lot to like about Barron. But that hardly means he's ready to slot into third-line center.

 

[kovazub94]

I believe they bridged them because they did not know what they were at the time.

I think one can make the argument they should have forseen that ADA had the talent to be really good offensively and therefor they could have offered him something long term. Yet on the other side one could argue that ADA knew what he was and would not have given them much if any of a discount given the Rangers were not throwing much praise his way either in the press or in playing time. All the Rangers have done is put RDs in front of him the entire time he's been with them.

Buch showed in my opinion even less at the time of his bridge. Again I think he has the talent but there was still question marks, still are question marks about his consistency.

I agree with your points but IMHO organization in certain situations needs to make a calculated risk "leap of faith" in giving long-term deals to prospects with question marks. I think NYR are a lot more on a conservative side in this area and probably overestimate the exposure. Skjei is a prime example - he didn't live up to expectations here and his contract was moved for value as there's generally a good market for younger (under-performing) player with term on their contracts.

 

[Crease]

I agree with your points but IMHO organization in certain situations needs to make a calculated risk "leap of faith" in giving long-term deals to prospects with question marks. I think NYR are a lot more on a conservative side in this area and probably overestimate the exposure. Skjei is a prime example - he didn't live up to expectations here and his contract was moved for value as there's generally a good market for younger (under-performing) player with term on their contracts.

NHL GMs love guys with pedigree. There will always be a market for former first round picks.

 

[Off Sides]

I agree with your points but IMHO organization in certain situations needs to make a calculated risk "leap of faith" in giving long-term deals to prospects with question marks. I think NYR are a lot more on a conservative side in this area and probably overestimate the exposure. Skjei is a prime example - he didn't live up to expectations here and his contract was moved for value as there's generally a good market for younger (under-performing) player with term on their contracts.

I agree, yet for example the only player I would have thought about it with recently would have been ADA and I would have had concerns about doing so last off-season.

To put it another way, let's hypothetically say Chytil just ended his entry level. From a management position I think it would be difficult not to bridge him unless any long term contract had a pretty low cap hit attached. From the player perspective if the cap hit is pretty low, why is he not betting on himself that he could do better in the later year of that long term by being bridged now? I mean there is probably a sweet spot in there somewhere yet finding it sometimes seems pretty difficult.

The team and Chytil will find themselves in that position next off-season so for now that is just a hypothetical, yet unless he improves a ton I think that sort of scenario may still likely be in play.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I would actually say of the NCAA free agents they signed earlier in the year, Khordorenko has the best chance of becoming a solid contributor on the team, ahead of Richards and Rueschhoff

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I will say this about Barron, when we scouted his games out of Bantam he looked good but not NHL good, he has increasingly year over year become better and better, it's hard to tell how good he can become because he continues to raise the ceiling nearly every year.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I will say this about Barron, when we scouted his games out of Bantam he looked good but not NHL good, he has increasingly year over year become better and better, it's hard to tell how good he can become because he continues to raise the ceiling nearly every year.

I have every hope he can become an NHL player. But he's not know. And really doesn't need to be. Let him adjust to the pro game. If he does that, he will find a way to the big club.

 

[True Blue]

Two rookie centers who have never played professional hockey. What could go wrong?

Oh, Singin......#WhyAreYouFeedingTheTroll?

 

[True Blue]

but never giving opportunity is almost as bad,
for example playing OGara and Gilmour regularly without giving Graves a sniff
this coming season, NYR not Cup contender,
I'd rather give young guys icetime OPPORTUNITIES to show IF they can contribute
rather than the usual-suspects, forgotten-in-a-year, guys like Haley or McKegg

Who is not getting an opportunity? Go knock down the door at camp and force your way in.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Barron isn't an NHL player in the sense he hasn't played a game. The team clearly believes he's ready and can play for them today

People seem to be forgetting they wanted to sign him so he could play for them in the spring, and in the play-in round

 

[True Blue]

I have absolutely no recollection of this.

This guy here's dead.

Well cross him off the list.

 

[Trxjw]

I think Barron has a good shot of stepping into the NHL right away. He has the tools and the IQ. However he's a pretty big step up from some of the UDFA's we signed. We shouldn't lump them all in the same bucket.

 

[True Blue]

Just because you day they're incredibly similar to Hayes and Vesey doesn't make it so. Vesey was Hobie Baker winner. Kevin Hayes was a first round draft pick. Neither of the two you mentioned can say that.

It's very easy to decide that Barron and Richards are ready to step into the lineup. But there's nothing to show that they are.

Vesey was also a third round pick and Richards was so well thought of he was not even drafted.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I think Barron has a good shot of stepping into the NHL right away. He has the tools and the IQ. However he's a pretty big step up from some of the UDFA's we signed. We shouldn't lump them all in the same bucket.

If Barron earns a spot, then terrific. What a wonderful problem to have. But to pencil him in because he's developed well to date is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Kovalev27]

I also believe Barron will be on this team

 

[Trxjw]

If Barron earns a spot, then terrific. What a wonderful problem to have. But to pencil him in because he's developed well to date is a recipe for disaster.

Totally agree.

 

[True Blue]

I don't think they are very similar at all --- in style, in approach, in how they're viewed, in their roles, in their upside, in their abilities, in their strengths, nor their weaknesses.

Of course they are similar. They are all white and are prospects of the Rangers. How did you miss that one?

Sometimes I have to remind myself that we're talking about Justin Richards here because the descriptions and expectations the last two pages are just...really interesting.

Justin? Who's Justin? I thought that we were talking about Brad.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

People clutching their pearls about a prospect being penciled in without "earning it" is hilarious

Oh how awful, we may have to play "unproven" Morgan Barron as opposed to Michael Haley or Greg McKegg

Truly a greek travesty

 

[NYSPORTS]

I will say this about Barron, when we scouted his games out of Bantam he looked good but not NHL good, he has increasingly year over year become better and better, it's hard to tell how good he can become because he continues to raise the ceiling nearly every year.

nice to hear

I have no idea how these scouts can forecast these kids beyond the can’t miss. Like baseball, they’re kids. At least the NFL drafts the kids out of college.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Of course they are similar. They are all white and are prospects of the Rangers. How did you miss that one?

Technically, they weren't. Hayes was a Blackhawk property and Vesey Predator property.

 

[True Blue]

Right. I mentioned that Hayes was a first round pick. For some reason I thought Barrons was also a third round pick, but was mistaken.

There's a lot to like about Barron. But that hardly means he's ready to slot into third-line center.

What are you talking about? If you play pre-season mode on the easy level, you can pump up his stats pretty quickly. Maybe even to 2C level. Though that means that you just ignored Chytil.

 

[True Blue]

Technically, they weren't. Hayes was a Blackhawk property and Vesey Predator property.

Oh, you trickster you. Technicaling me with your technicalities.