Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LIII

[Mac n Gs]

The Martin age thing was an exaggeration. I didn't think there was a 76 year old coach in the NHL. I should have said 86 to remove all doubt.

This one was a miss though. I would like to apologize to @Mac n Gs and his family.

Don't ever let it happen again. JK, I forgive you

Any off-season that adds a piece like Lafreniere is a good one. I'd be perfectly content if the Rangers added a couple young depth players with upside, dealt with the goalie trio, and brought back the key RFAs.

It's funny, the more I look at this roster, I start to think that the Rangers brass would be perfectly acceptable with 2020-21 being a transition year. Even if you don't factor in the shortened season due to COVID, a transition year allows them to get rid of their short-term financial restrictions and get a better picture of how some of their young pieces fit into their long-term core moving forward. Looking at their roster, it's surprisingly easy for them to just bring back essentially the same team and bank on natural player's progression being their added value for the offseason. There are some obvious caveats to this plan in order to deal with the flat cap issues: Staal needs to be bought out, Strome needs to be signed to a 1 year deal, and they need to get creative on Tony's next contract. Maybe they can figure out a way to sign him to a backloaded deal like McAvoy/Werenski within the bounds of the new CBA. The rest of the lineup can be filled out with cheap depth, but I think factoring in Lafreniere and natural progression from Buchnevich, Chytil, DeAngelo, Gauthier, and Kakko puts them in a good enough spot to still be competitive next year. They could roll a lineup like this:

Kreider-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Panarin-Strome-Kakko
Lafreniere-Chytil-Gauthier
Lemieux-Howden-4RW

Smith-Trouba
Lindgren-Fox
Hajek-DeAngelo

Igor
Georgiev/Lundqvist

The lower-end depth is still really weak IMO, and they'd be banking on their top-6 carrying the load again. If this is meant to be a transition year, I think that ends up being a fair enough lineup. I also tried to not over-project younger guys like Barron and Miller winning spots, and it's obvious that LD is still a glaring need.

 

[bobbop]

Whether it kicked in or not, he isn't getting traded. Do we really need to start this conversation again?

This.

Also, there’s no reason to think it hasn’t kicked in. The players agreed to extend expiring contracts, not to delay future benefits. Bonuses were also due on July 1 and as an aside, the Coyote players were grumbling that bonuses were late in arriving.

Spend your time on other things.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

If the Knicks trade for Lauri Markanen and MSG doesn't have a reality show about Markanen and Kakko living together in New York, then it should be ashamed of itself.

 

[bobbop]

If you think we are going to win in the future with two donut lines, think again.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

the LD depth in the system is the strongest in the organization. those guys aren't ready yet but they are still there. PATIENCE is a virtue

For someone to step into a top 4 role and bump Lindgren down or replace him all together (if hes lost in expansion)? Sure.

But its going to take a while. They would be wise to get someone who can handle heavy minutes for the next few years and allow the guys in the system to develop at a reasonable pace. If someone surprises? Great, now we have a strong left side and a shit load of trade capital at the position.

 

[Avery16]

For the sake of the Trouba/NMC argument again, here is the MOU section on No Trade/No Move Clauses

So, going by that last point, since Trouba has a NMC that would become effective in the 2020-21 season b/c he would become Group 3 eligible in that season, it looks like his NMC won't take effect until the opening of Free Agency, which is the later of October 9th or SCF+7 days.

I think. Need another set of eyes to make sure I am reading correctly.

But yes, whether it's active or not, the Rangers aren't trading Trouba.

cc @bobbop It's one thing to state your belief. It's another to push misinformation as fact. Let's stick to what we know, label theories as nothing more than that.

 

[Avery16]

If you think we are going to win in the future with two donut lines, think again.

This checks out. It was our total lack of forward depth that stood out in our lopsided series against Carolina, themselves no powerhouse.

We have LD prospects right around the corner, maybe can take serious minutes next season. Barron is some time away, and Chytil might step up from 3C next season, maybe not. C is our bigger hole.

 

[bobbop]

don't disagree with any of your points but one thing that the last few years should have shown us is how quickly 'organizational needs' can change...

a few years ago the top RD prospect in the system was Zborovsky, it was by far our biggest weakness and need...now it is our biggest strength. A couple years ago we were talking about which center would need to move to wing cause we had mika, chytil, anderson and howden down the middle and it was a huge strength. now things haven't worked as we hoped and its our biggest weakness...

all I can say is that if we see it JD & JG are aware that it needs to improve...but everything isn't going to be fixed overnight. the organization is light years ahead of where it was 3 years ago. the puzzle isn't complete yet but have confidence and patience...

You actually made my point. You don’t even have to go back to Zborovsky. Go back one year and look at how barren the closet was on the right side. Two trades And some player development later, our right side depth is outstanding. We need the same type of thinking down the middle now.

 

[bobbop]

cc @bobbop It's one thing to state your belief. It's another to push misinformation as fact. Let's stick to what we know, label theories as nothing more than that.

That door swings both ways.

 

[SA16]

This.

Also, there’s no reason to think it hasn’t kicked in. The players agreed to extend expiring contracts, not to delay future benefits. Bonuses were also due on July 1 and as an aside, the Coyote players were grumbling that bonuses were late in arriving.

Spend your time on other things.

There's no reason to think it hasn't kicked in outside of the statement @Irishguy42 posted directly from the MOU.

 

[Leetch3]

For someone to step into a top 4 role and bump Lindgren down or replace him all together (if hes lost in expansion)? Sure.

But its going to take a while. They would be wise to get someone who can handle heavy minutes for the next few years and allow the guys in the system to develop at a reasonable pace. If someone surprises? Great, now we have a strong left side and a shit load of trade capital at the position.

I don't concern myself with the team needs for the 20-21 season like we are only a piece away. my concern is with the team needs to becoming a contender. if we can find those answers now and make the team better for next year, awesome. but if I have to wait a year or 2 for the team to be a finished product thats cool too.

stop gaps to help the process are great...but thats not what i'm focusing on when talking about the teams needs

 

[Avery16]

That door swings both ways.

What theories do I assert as fact?

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

The rangers are significantly more weak at LD than they are at center.

Yes, but they have TONS of LD talent in the system (Miller, Robertson, Reunanen, Jones, Hajek, Rykov plus a bunch more longer shots), whereas they are close to bone dry at center (Henriksson, plus essentially the two UDFAs they just signed – oh, and I guess Andersson, if you think he'll ever play for this org ever again).

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don't concern myself with the team needs for the 20-21 season like we are only a piece away. my concern is with the team needs to becoming a contender. if we can find those answers now and make the team better for next year, awesome. but if I have to wait a year or 2 for the team to be a finished product thats cool too.

stop gaps to help the process are great...but thats not what i'm focusing on when talking about the teams needs

I'm concerned about that spot beyond 20-21.

If we can get a relatively cost effective guy(i.e, someone who won't cost more than 6m a year) in his mid-late 20's, its a slam dunk for me.

As someone said, Dunn and Brodin are both great targets. Brodin's defensive metrics are off the charts great and I don't think his next deal is going to be too crazy (I wouldn't trade for him with out an extension in place though.)

They aren't going to fix all their problems in this offseason, but they should at least take a crack at solving one of their biggest issues.

 

[MrAlmost]

the LD depth in the system is the strongest in the organization. those guys aren't ready yet but they are still there. PATIENCE is a virtue

That's fair. But at the end of the day those are questions, not answers.

Will Jones be as effective offensively as the competition increases? Will Robertsons foot work be good enough and will he use his big body to shut teams down? Did Hajek flatline after his injury? And is Miller the real deal after an unspectacular season at Wisconsin? Not to mention who knows if a lot of these players are going to get to play this season.

I hope these guys pan out, and even if they do, it would be a miracle if it happened as soon as next season. I do not advocate a trade for a LD just to do it though. I really think this season should be played close to the vest and wait till next offseason.

Long post short I agree that LD has promising prospects, but the projected lineup this upcoming season is not good.

 

[Tawnos]

BPA doesn't mean a consensus best player across the league. every team could have a different list based on whatever criteria they consider important. the rangers will have their list. if they pick at #24, then they go into the draft with THEIR list of the top 24 guys and then you draft the highest ranked guy on that list that is still on the board.

My sense, and maybe I’m wrong, is that those lists start to become more fluid as you get later in the first round. In other words, If you’re looking at ranking the 23rd guy, you might have a LW and a C that are pretty equally rated by your scouts, with a very slight lean towards the LW. If your organization (note: I don’t mean just the current roster) is light at C and heavy at LW, you might rank the C at 23 and the LW at 24. Talent wise, you could be justified in doing so, but it’s not a lock either way. So, if you get to 23 and that C is there, you are picking the guy highest on your list, but you’re not necessarily picking the purely “best player available.” He was only rated ahead of that 24th rated LW because of his position.

I never would intend to imply that you don’t go with the top guy on your list, but I don’t really think the list itself is simply a ranking of attributes. I think organizational need plays a role in creating the list to begin with.

 

[Avery16]

Oof that JT Miller no-look pass to an open opponent gave me flashbacks

 

[Leetch3]

I'm concerned about that spot beyond 20-21.

If we can get a relatively cost effective guy(i.e, someone who won't cost more than 6m a year) in his mid-late 20's, its a slam dunk for me.

As someone said, Dunn and Brodin are both great targets. Brodin's defensive metrics are off the charts great and I don't think his next deal is going to be too crazy (I wouldn't trade for him with out an extension in place though.)

They aren't going to fix all their problems in this offseason, but they should at least take a crack at solving one of their biggest issues.

i'd love to get brodin he'd be close to perfect but the cost in a trade and his next contract is a potential issue/concern...i'm on board if we can keep him long term. but can we do that without trading ADA?

dunn is a nice option depending on the price and at 23 he is the perfect age...but this is the type of deal that we need to think about the expansion draft. we'd be alot better next year, but if we give up assets for him and then lose lindgren to seattle does that make us better? 1 LD in, 1 LD out?

I tend to lean towards unless you are planning to trade ADA or the LD you are trading for is SO good that you don't care about losing Lindgren, that we are probably looking at a stop gap solution here. a UFA signed for 2 years so we can meet the expansion draft requirements that makes us better next year. but then the long term solution comes after that with staal and smith finally gone and the prospects hopefully a years closer. thats when I expect the trade to try to add the 'final piece' to round out the left side

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

i'd love to get brodin he'd be close to perfect but the cost in a trade and his next contract is a potential issue/concern...i'm on board if we can keep him long term. but can we do that without trading ADA?

dunn is a nice option depending on the price and at 23 he is the perfect age...but this is the type of deal that we need to think about the expansion draft. we'd be alot better next year, but if we give up assets for him and then lose lindgren to seattle does that make us better? 1 LD in, 1 LD out?

I tend to lean towards unless you are planning to trade ADA or the LD you are trading for is SO good that you don't care about losing Lindgren, that we are probably looking at a stop gap solution here. a UFA signed for 2 years so we can meet the expansion draft requirements that makes us better next year. but then the long term solution comes after that with staal and smith finally gone and the prospects hopefully a years closer. thats when I expect the trade to try to add the 'final piece' to round out the left side

100%. Given the expansion draft, these are the only choices that really make sense.

 

[Avery16]

Oof that JT Miller no-look pass to an open opponent gave me flashbacks

Aaaaand now he’s in the box.

 

[NYRangers16]

I still think the org. can move some pieces that aren’t in the long term plans for a 2C and top 4 LD this offseason. There’s no reason not to if the value is there and assuming we don’t screw ourselves for the expansion draft(ie eligible contracts moving out for contracts coming in).

We can debate which players should be in the long term plan all day, but there are options to do this now I’m sure. Obviously there is no rush either, so it would have to be a hockey trade not just a contract one.

But keep in mind, even in 2 years, the LDs will be Lindgren and at best a bunch of guys playing their first full season if we do nothing. 2C could be Chytil, Strome, or neither. Plus there is the chance to move the team forward more this year as an added benefit (assuming it doesn’t harm the big picture).

Also, this may be more of a minor concern, but the sooner these balance moves are made, the sooner we can see how everyone slots in, who fits with who, etc. This helps inform next offseason if these moves are made this one. Again, assuming the right opportunities come along.

 

[Avery16]

Well, though we still haven't moved up from #24OA, #21OA is now about as equally achievable as #23OA or #22OA.

 

[Leetch3]

I still think the org. can move some pieces that aren’t in the long term plans for a 2C and top 4 LD this offseason. There’s no reason not to if the value is there and assuming we don’t screw ourselves for the expansion draft(ie eligible contracts moving out for contracts coming in).

We can debate which players should be in the long term plan all day, but there are options to do this now I’m sure. Obviously there is no rush either, so it would have to be a hockey trade not just a contract one.

But keep in mind, even in 2 years, the LDs will be Lindgren and at best a bunch of guys playing their first full season if we do nothing. 2C could be Chytil, Strome, or neither. Plus there is the chance to move the team forward more this year as an added benefit (assuming it doesn’t harm the big picture).

Also, this may be more of a minor concern, but the sooner these balance moves are made, the sooner we can see how everyone slots in, who fits with who, etc. This helps inform next offseason if these moves are made this one. Again, assuming the right opportunities come along.

no doubt that if the right deals are there you make them...if you can solve those needs sooner thats even better. but we need to get rid of dead weight and clear cap space on top of finding those trades so its an awful lot of things that need to go right in one offseason

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

You actually made my point. You don’t even have to go back to Zborovsky. Go back one year and look at how barren the closet was on the right side. Two trades And some player development later, our right side depth is outstanding. We need the same type of thinking down the middle now.

well maybe we should start drafting some centers. And not undersized, low ceiling Swedish ones, either.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I continue to be a skeptic that there’s such a thing as BPA by the time you get to the 20s in the draft order.

BPA exists, but it's not on a player-by-player basis. Certain players are grouped together as BPA, and within that group it's perfectly fine to go for organizational depth. Not so much what your NHL team is lacking, but what your prospect pool is lacking. Ironically, in our case that's the same (center)