Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LII

[Heckler81]

Do people really still believe Zibanejad isn't a true no. 1 center?

Serious question, as I am totally f*ckin' perplexed about this..

I think Zibby needs one more year like this year to make a lot of non Rangers fans a believer.

 

[mas0764]

Do we even know if we want to commit to Chytil at C? Quinn moved him to the wing and he seemed to play better on the wing than down the middle.

I would treat Chytil as found money. He's entering his fourth season on NHL ice (third full season, really), and while there is absolutely NO reason to give up on him, I'm also still in wait and see mode. I feel good about him but I may feel good about him as good secondary scorer on the second line instead of a quality 2C that carries the line. Both are good outcomes for where he was picked but I just am not counting on him being the center I'm looking for.

 

[Rongomania]

He may be perfect to "usher in" the next core but when Kakko is 25 and is in his prime and ready to be the main piece carrying the team to Cups, Zibanejad will be 33. Will he be the right player to help carry the team with the next core? That I am not sure about.

I think Panarin projects to stay a top-liner into his 30s moreso than Zibanejad.

Obviously there is time to resolve this issue but we are also at a crossroads where we have the young assets right now to swing for the fences. In 2-3 years, we will no longer have such a surplus of picks, young ELC talent, prospects in the pipeline, and affordable/desirable roster players that we don't need long term (Buch/Strome) as they will have moved on in free agency.

We are absolutely lined up to do no more tanking and to begin taking runs until laf and Kakko are 30.

Again, the pieces are here now to get a 1C or we may even have one here already (post-Zibanejad)

Maybe, Zibs scores 50 until he's 33. It's not out of the realm, he was a late bloomer and is a freaking beast - when healthy. And of course that is a huge factor.

It also honestly would not shock me if Strome got moved and Chytil doesn't look out of place next to Bread. That is my dream scenario. Chytil breaks out playing with Bread.

 

[GAGLine]

I don't agree that he has more value to us than to other teams, nor do I agree that if we don't want to give him a long term deal that other teams won't.

Buffalo may not give up the 8th pick for one year of control, that very well may be true, but I also bet they'd love to throw a long term deal at him. A team like Buffalo is probably desperate to build at least a playoff team around Eichel so they can try to keep him. Presuming that if they believe Eichel and Strome could play together on a line, and perhaps believing that Strome could elevate Eichel's point totals like he has with Panarin, I could easily see the Sabres having that kind of player be high priority.

The Rangers have other players that Panarin can excel with. What the Rangers need isn't a wingman to make their only star happy; they need a complete 1/2 center type for the future.

Giving Strome a long term deal would be a huge risk. Look at the contracts they gave out to Okposo and Skinner. They have to hope that Skinner can rebound from a really bad year, but Okposo is one concussion away from never playing again, and even when he does play, he's nowhere near productive enough to justify that contract.

Buffalo may believe that Strome can excel playing with Eichel or Reinhart, but I don't believe they would be foolish enough to gamble the 8th overall pick and a long term contract on it.

Strome doesn't have long term value to us, but in the short term, he's probably worth more to us than whatever we would get in trade. His value is probably a 2nd round pick and a B prospect. That type of value doesn't get you from the 22nd pick to the 8th pick. I'm not against trading him if the assets returned can help get us a player we want, or if he wants too much money/term, but if he is willing to stay on a relatively cheap 1 or 2 year deal, we probably keep him.

 

[Rongomania]

I think Zibby needs one more year like this year to make a lot of non Rangers fans a believer.

Ugh. Ridiculous.

The only thing he needs to prove is that he can remain injury free.

He has that to prove only. Look at his stats for the past two seasons.

 

[mas0764]

We are absolutely lined up to do no more tanking and to begin taking runs until laf and Kakko are 30.

I'm not saying to tank. I'm saying move some excess assets now, while we have them, to get a future top-6 center.

The very reason to do it now is so that we do not have to do anymore tanking to acquire one.

It also honestly would not shock me if Strome got moved and Chytil doesn't look out of place next to Bread. That is my dream scenario. Chytil breaks out playing with Bread.

Maybe.

And while that would certainly help insulate us, when Zibanejad moves on at 33, then we have Chytil and....?

That's why getting a center like Lundell is so perfect for us right now, if it's at all possible. No draft pick is a guarantee but he is very safe, as prospects go, as a 2C. There's a decent chance that he's even a Stepan-like 1C.

Chytil doesn't pan out at C? At least you have Lundell who can play Stepan surrounded by Kakko and Lafreniere. Chytil does pan out? You have a very solid 1-2 down the middle surrounded by top wings on both lines. Zibanejad stays effective past 32-33? Chytil can move to wing and Lundell is the 2C behind Zibanejad.

Getting a guy like him right now would be absolutely perfect for where this Rangers team is at. If he pans out, he gives us near-endless flexibility to remain a dominant team for a decade.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

I dont think Chytil is a bottom 6 C. There are certain types of players that you can roll out as bottom 6 Cs, and Chytil is not that. If there is no way for Chytil to be this team's 2C in the near future, and there is clearly no room for him on the wings in the top 6, I think he can bring us the most value in a trade. MAYBE he could be a great 3rd line winger if we have a scoring 3rd line, but realistically he has the style of play that belongs in the top 6, he just has yet to put it all together. I am not saying he should have it all together, but the lineup is getting deeper and more talented, and if we are going big sea fishing for a solid 2C and for an LD, he is a player that can get a deal done without giving up Miller or Lundkvist or Kravtsov. FWIW, I absolutely love Chytil, loved the pick, loved his development, and I really really like his game now, I am only saying that if we are to keep Strome or make moves for a 2C we may be shutting the door on Fil the Thrill. Fil is a future 50 point player no doubt in my mind, he is the kind of kid that can interest Toronto in a deal for Nylander, or Calgary in a deal for Lindholm, and maybe Anaheim in a deal for the other Lindholm. Figure out where you see Fil on this Rangers team, and then evaluate if he might have more value in baiting a big fish to fill a hole.

 

[TheBPA]

Total hindsight, but I can’t help but feel that the Rangers would be in a better position if they had signed Hayes and traded Kreider instead.

 

[True Blue]

Im going to half agree and half disagree here. I don’t think the mantra is playoffs or bust necessarily.

However, I think the only way the youth progresses and they don’t make the playoffs is if they are looking at major injuries to top players. In that case, I agree he could return.

If the youth progresses and their top players are relatively healthy then I think they almost definitely make it in. Don’t get me wrong - not predicting a Presidents trophy, but I think they should def be good enough for a wildcard and maybe a bit better.

If their top players are healthy and the youth progresses and they don’t make it? At that point, I’m thinking something is wrong and he’s probably gone.

My prediction is that he makes it and stays around at least one more year.

I hear you. I guess it depends your view on what this team will be. To me, right now it is a cusp team. Which means they should compete and could very well make the playoffs but could also fall a bit short. That is the nature of a cusp team. Like I said, to me, as long as there is progress for both the team and the players, he is back. If the wheels come off the bus completely and the kids regress and the team is looking at the lottery, then things can and will change

 

[mas0764]

Giving Strome a long term deal would be a huge risk. Look at the contracts they gave out to Okposo and Skinner. They have to hope that Skinner can rebound from a really bad year, but Okposo is one concussion away from never playing again, and even when he does play, he's nowhere near productive enough to justify that contract.

Buffalo may believe that Strome can excel playing with Eichel or Reinhart, but I don't believe they would be foolish enough to gamble the 8th overall pick and a long term contract on it.

Strome doesn't have long term value to us, but in the short term, he's probably worth more to us than whatever we would get in trade. His value is probably a 2nd round pick and a B prospect. That type of value doesn't get you from the 22nd pick to the 8th pick. I'm not against trading him if the assets returned can help get us a player we want, or if he wants too much money/term, but if he is willing to stay on a relatively cheap 1 or 2 year deal, we probably keep him.

Well if Strome's only value is a second round pick, then I am ok keeping him on a short term deal. I would let him walk for nothing before giving him a long term deal, especially if it required a NTC.

But again, if Kapanen just fetched 15 overall, I bet Strome's value is more than a second round pick.

 

[Rongomania]

I'm not saying to tank. I'm saying move some excess assets now, while we have them, to get a future top-6 center.

The very reason to do it now is so that we do not have to do anymore tanking to acquire one.



Maybe.

And while that would certainly help insulate us, when Zibanejad moves on at 33, then we have Chytil and....?

That's why getting a center like Lundell is so perfect for us right now, if it's at all possible. No draft pick is a guarantee but he is very safe, as prospects go, as a 2C. There's a decent chance that he's even a Stepan-like 1C.

Chytil doesn't pan out at C? At least you have Lundell who can play Stepan surrounded by Kakko and Lafreniere. Chytil does pan out? You have a very solid 1-2 down the middle surrounded by top wings on both lines. Zibanejad stays effective past 32-33? Chytil can move to wing and Lundell is the 2C behind Zibanejad.

Getting a guy like him right now would be absolutely perfect for where this Rangers team is at. If he pans out, he gives us near-endless flexibility to remain a dominant team for a decade.

I think whether it's Lundell this year (who I agree would be a good grab) or whoever may come up next year... That may be good if Chytil shows no big offensive growth this upcoming season. I think we should definitely use this season as a barometer for the centers in this org. We will only grow more trade pieces this season, as we have a deep prospect pool and some fantastic young players. And now, that glut on the wings growing.

We are going in the right direction and I feel that of course, eventually we will get the right guy if he's needed.

 

[Mikos87]

Total hindsight, but I can’t help but feel that the Rangers would be in a better position if they had signed Hayes and traded Kreider instead.

Positional decision?

 

[Mikos87]

Also, Lafreniere, Chytil and Kakko is a line with an average age young enough to play in the WJC. Not sure I would put those 3 together

Yeah I think you have to spread it out. Guys like Laf and Zib like to attack the net hard looking to score, same with Kreider and Chytil but they've stayed on the perimeter at times to shoot, or cycle. The Bread unit is more east west with their passing. Maybe Kakko is a better fit on that off-wing. Those two would need to spend some time together to gel.

 

[SML2]

Strome definitely has value, but I think he has more value to us than he does to other teams. If Buffalo's pick is in play, I think they would be more likely to trade it outright for a better/younger player, than they would be to trade it for Strome and the 22nd. Strome was a good player for us last year, but there are legitimate concerns as to whether he can do it again without Panarin. If we don't want to give him a long term deal, you can bet other teams don't either, and he is arbitration eligible and only 1 year from UFA. Buffalo isn't giving up the 8th overall pick for 1 year of Strome and the 22nd pick.

I feel like Strome is the Stralman moment this team whiffed on badly when they chose to sign Staal and Girardi long term.

He's as RFA. He doesn't have a lot of leverage. He's been in bad situations before and has to realize that the chemistry here is worth something to him in being a legit NHL player.

I offer him a take it or leave it 4 year deal for 4.3 per. The offer kicks him into the tier where anyone who tops it has to give us a 1st and a 3rd. I don't know how many teams would do that so I don't think he has much choice. If he finds it, so be it, we get a first and a third which isn't bad for a guy you got for Ryan Spooner. If he doesn't we get a decent mid range center at a great value who we aren't committed to and would be easy to move should a better option emerge.

 

[GAGLine]

Well if Strome's only value is a second round pick, then I am ok keeping him on a short term deal. I would let him walk for nothing before giving him a long term deal, especially if it required a NTC.

But again, if Kapanen just fetched 15 overall, I bet Strome's value is more than a second round pick.

Based on the reactions, it seems that most people believe that Pittsburgh overpaid. There's always the chance that someone overpays for Strome, but I'm not counting on it. Kapanen is also 2 years younger, under a relatively cheap contract for 2 more years, and will be an RFA when it expires. All of that adds to his value.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

TDA won't be here long term because it doesn't make sense. Fox and Lundkvist will both be far better all around defenseman and both have the skill to QB a PP. Chytil will not be a top 6 player on this team if he can't learn how to win faceoffs. If he can the skill and upside is certainly there.

 

[GAGLine]

I feel like Strome is the Stralman moment this team whiffed on badly when they chose to sign Staal and Girardi long term.

He's as RFA. He doesn't have a lot of leverage. He's been in bad situations before and has to realize that the chemistry here is worth something to him in being a legit NHL player.

I offer him a take it or leave it 4 year deal for 4.3 per. The offer kicks him into the tier where anyone who tops it has to give us a 1st and a 3rd. I don't know how many teams would do that so I don't think he has much choice. If he finds it, so be it, we get a first and a third which isn't bad for a guy you got for Ryan Spooner. If he doesn't we get a decent mid range center at a great value who we aren't committed to and would be easy to move should a better option emerge.

I can see the comparisons, but there is a risk of him being Brendan Smith rather than Stralman. He probably isn't attending a bunch of weddings right now, but still, we could end up regretting that contract. If he doesn't maintain his level of play, he could be difficult to move with the flat cap.

I don't see any team trying to offer sheet him, so the 1st and 3rd value doesn't really have any meaning. He will very likely elect arbitration. Once he does that, he can't sign an offer sheet. Honestly, his best bet might be to sign his 3.2 mil QO, play out the year next to Panarin, and then try to get a long term deal next year as a UFA. He seems like a smart guy and he and his agent will know that the money is tight. Asking for more might result in him getting traded and ending up in a less ideal situation. He could try to get more in arbitration, but he's likely to get a number that we can walk away from, which is a risk for him.

 

[SML2]

I can see the comparisons, but there is a risk of him being Brendan Smith rather than Stralman. He probably isn't attending a bunch of weddings right now, but still, we could end up regretting that contract. If he doesn't maintain his level of play, he could be difficult to move with the flat cap.

I don't see any team trying to offer sheet him, so the 1st and 3rd value doesn't really have any meaning. He will very likely elect arbitration. Once he does that, he can't sign an offer sheet. Honestly, his best bet might be to sign his 3.2 mil QO, play out the year next to Panarin, and then try to get a long term deal next year as a UFA. He seems like a smart guy and he and his agent will know that the money is tight. Asking for more might result in him getting traded and ending up in a less ideal situation. He could try to get more in arbitration, but he's likely to get a number that we can walk away from, which is a risk for him.

If you offer 3.2, the compensation is only a second round pick. Someone would be in on that. You show me another sub 30 yr old, 70 pt pace player you could get for a second round pick. It's too good of a deal to pass up. Even if you hated him, you're going to at least recoup the pick at the deadline if you wanted out.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If you offer 3.2, the compensation is only a second round pick. Someone would be in on that. You show me another sub 30 yr old, 70 pt pace player you could get for a second round pick. It's too good of a deal to pass up. Even if you hated him, you're going to at least recoup the pick at the deadline if you wanted out.

He isn't a 70 point player with out Panarin.

Strome is who he has been, a 35-40 point player who is incredibly 1 dimensional and takes bad penalties. Anything more than a 2 year deal (so he can be exposed for the expansion draft if you want to cover that) would be a mistake.

I have no problem giving him a 1 year deal and letting him walk as a UFA.

 

[Anthony5967]

This is bullshit though. Every argument here with trading Tony D has to do with the cap and the fact we're flush with RD. Every single one. I dont care about twitter or facebook.

More frustrating is watching people so obsessed with DeAngelo and his persona that they argue against themselves on here. People trashing advanced stats then just shitposting charts about Tony D being stats god all day. Or the same posters who SHIT every time Shattenkirk or Yandle played a bad pass, carried on about how they can't handle defensive matchups, and couldn't wait to run them out of town suddenly don't care about anything but Tony's points.

We could trade him for McDavid straight up and there's a portion of this fanbase who would lose their mind. Its very odd. If he does get traded this place is going to be primetime viewing.

Shattenkirk was absolute garbage here lol. Had he put up 50+ points in 60 whatever games, I don't think you would've found many people complaining. Yandle I had no problem with because he brought offensive punch on a shutdown-d heavy blueline.

 

[GAGLine]

If you offer 3.2, the compensation is only a second round pick. Someone would be in on that. You show me another sub 30 yr old, 70 pt pace player you could get for a second round pick. It's too good of a deal to pass up. Even if you hated him, you're going to at least recoup the pick at the deadline if you wanted out.

3.2 mil is his qualifying offer based on what he made this season. The Rangers are obligated to make that offer in order to retain his rights, which they absolutely will do. Teams get first choice to elect arbitration for a player, but I don't see any reason why the Rangers would elect arbitration with Strome. Some time after that is the deadline for when players have to choose whether or not they are going to elect arbitration. If they elect arbitration, there are no longer allowed to sign an offer sheet. Strome will almost certainly elect arbitration. There is a small window between when other teams can talk to players and the deadline for electing arbitration. That window will be even smaller this year. Since the last CBA was signed in 2012, teams have been able to talk to pending UFAs and RFAs 3 days prior to the start of free agency. As part of the Memorandum of Understanding that the NHL and NHLPA signed, they are doing away with that pre-free agency interview period.

FEATURE: Breaking Down the MOU

There has been one slight change to Free Agency going forward under the new agreement. The format returns to its old model, eliminating the 'free agent interview period'. This interview period was a three-day window where teams could talk to upcoming free agents, technically still under contract with other clubs (deals expire on June 30th). Teams and players could have deals already worked out, only to be announced on July 1st.
That will no longer be the case, returning to players and clubs only able to open talks as of July 1st.

The window of opportunity will likely be further reduced by the compacted offseason schedule.

Even if a team wanted to offer sheet Strome, they have a limited time frame in which to do so, and then Strome still has to sign it. Which teams do you really think are going to try to sign him? If any team with cap space is looking to throw out an offer sheet, there are other more attractive targets than Ryan Strome.

 

[SA16]

If you offer 3.2, the compensation is only a second round pick. Someone would be in on that. You show me another sub 30 yr old, 70 pt pace player you could get for a second round pick. It's too good of a deal to pass up. Even if you hated him, you're going to at least recoup the pick at the deadline if you wanted out.

Why would he sign his QO instead of just going to arbitration?

 

[East Coast Bias]

Shattenkirk was absolute garbage here lol. Had he put up 50+ points in 60 whatever games, I don't think you would've found many people complaining. Yandle I had no problem with because he brought offensive punch on a shutdown-d heavy blueline.

People complained about Shattenkirk before he even arrived, and he was an often debated player. The point is offensive defensemen here have always taken tons of criticism. This isn't a persecution of Tony D.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Shattenkirk was absolute garbage here lol. Had he put up 50+ points in 60 whatever games, I don't think you would've found many people complaining. Yandle I had no problem with because he brought offensive punch on a shutdown-d heavy blueline.

I'm not suggesting that Shattenkirk was good here, but had 44 points in 46 games before getting hurt in 17-18. Claiming Yandle brought offensive punch is odd — since Yandle never did that here.

Yandle, for some reason, is one of the few guys who seemingly never gets killed around here.