Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LI

[TheBloodyNine]

Chychrun was very good during the regular season and very bad during the playoffs. Don‘t think he is going anywhere.

I know, I know. Still would love a swindle though!

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Those guys combined for like 28 points. Buchnevich almost scored twice as many points as the two of them put together lol.

Yeah like Buch is so undervalued bro. Kapanen just got 15 OA and a B prospect.

 

[bobbop]

My educated guess is that the Coyotes will look at moving Oliver Ekman-Larsson and bringing back an assortment of players and picks.

(BTW he isn’t worth his contract. Not even close)

 

[Edge]

Yeah like Buch is so undervalued bro. Kapanen just got 15 OA and a B prospect.

And this is why I think Buch's approximate value is roughly the same as it was last year when he was included in a deal for a top 10 pick.

Now, while I don't believe the Rangers intend to go that direction again, those talks and the Kapanen deal should hopefully give some pause to people who might think we inherently have to add to any deal involving Buch.

 

[Edge]

My educated guess is that the Coyotes will look at moving Oliver Ekman-Larsson and bringing back an assortment of players and picks.

(BTW he isn’t worth his contract. Not even close)

And a lot of fans are going to be hoping they're getting the 2013-16 version of OEL. Which would be their first mistake.

 

[aufheben]

And this is why I think Buch's approximate value is roughly the same as it was last year when he was included in a deal for a top 10 pick.

Now, while I don't believe the Rangers intend to go that direction again, those talks and the Kapanen deal should hopefully give some pause to people who might think we inherently have to add to any deal involving Buch.

Yeah and I sure as shit wouldn’t be trading a top-10 pick for Sam Bennett (although I’m totally in favor of acquiring him through other means (except kidnapping)).

 

[aufheben]

Chychrun is also a guy with an interesting saga on HF Boards.

He was seen as a top 5 pick for the 2016 draft about five years ago.

Then he struggled his draft year and a bunch of people didn't want to take a chance on him.

Now he's a guy a lot people want again.

And yet something tells me that if we had him, he'd be the subject of a lot of debate around here.

Well he’s a defenseman, so that alone would garner endless divisions and debates about whatever. He’s a real good player though (not to mention he’d fit in on this team like a dream).

 

[Edge]

Yeah and I sure as shit wouldn’t be trading a top-10 pick for Sam Bennett (although I’m totally in favor of acquiring him through other means (except kidnapping)).

I think that while Buch is a candidate to bring back someone who doesn't match his point totals, or bring back two guys that aren't see as being offensively skilled, the Rangers are going to be trading him for 50 cents on the dollar either.

 

[Edge]

Well he’s a defenseman, so that alone would garner endless divisions and debates about whatever. He’s a real good player though (not to mention he’d fit in on this team like a dream).

Man, I have to tell you, a lot of this sounds awfully similar to Trouba. And that's exactly what I was envisioning when I mentioned the debates I think this board would have about him.

"He's out again?"

"Wow he handles the puck like grenade."

"Why can't we get this version of him all the time?"

"Hey that pick we traded for him is looking really good right now."

"The Rangers could package him to get [insert player]. We have Miller/Robertson ready to take that spot."

"Why is his pairing playing ahead of [insert defensive pairing]? The other pairing is better!"

"That next contract is going to be a doozy. How are we going to afford it. I think we should trade him now and get max value..."

Mark my words, these would be conversations within 12 months of his acquisition.

 

[DutchShamrock]

What Chayka did trading for those contracts was brilliant. The Coyotes weren’t going to spend that money. They got draft picks and in one case a very desirable player (Lawson Crouse) for holding those contracts. Insurance paid the salaries. He did make the Stepan trade and when he made it I would have made the exact same trade. DeAngelo was lousy in Arizona. I give Chayka credit...he tried a lot of different things. What had really hurt the Coyotes was a long history of draft incompetence under Don Maloney (sound familiar) punctuated by taking Dylan Strome over Mitch Marner in 2016.

I don't disagree with you but the other poster said Chayka was handicapped by dead cap space and bad luck with prospects. Chayka can't have it both ways when we evaluate his tenure. We can't give him credit for making those cap space moves and then absolve team woes because his cap was gone. We can't say the Stepan move was wise at the time but forgive the bare cupboard because he traded away a top 5 point scoring young offensive defenseman and a 7th OA.

I'm not blasting the guy for his track record, but I do want the evaluation to be honest.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Man, I have to tell you, a lot of this sounds awfully similar to Trouba. And that's exactly what I was envisioning when I mentioned the debates I think this board would have about him.

"He's out again?"

"Wow he handles the puck like grenade."

"Why can't we get this version of him all the time?"

"Hey that pick we traded for him is looking really good right now."

"The Rangers could package him to get [insert player]. We have Miller/Robertson ready to take that spot."

"Why is his pairing playing ahead of [insert defensive pairing]? The other pairing is better!"

"That next contract is going to be a doozy. How are we going to afford it. I think we should trade him now and get max value..."

Mark my words, these would be conversations within 12 months of his acquisition.

Difference being we don't have 2 high quality LD already in the NHL and Chychrun is locked into a very team friendly contract.

 

[Edge]

Difference being we don't have 2 high quality LD already in the NHL and Chychrun is locked into a very team friendly contract.

Yeah....but I think this another case of this board thinking it's getting something it's not.

And contract or not, that usually doesn't age well...

I just have that same feeling on expectations again.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Yeah....but I think this another case of this board thinking it's getting something it's not.

And contract or not, that usually doesn't age well...

I just have that same feeling on expectations again.

IDK, what are people thinking we would be getting? He is a very good defenseman who's young and cheap. Is he the elite of the elite? Nope, but I haven't seen that expressed sentiment.

 

[Edge]

IDK, what are people thinking we would be getting? He is a very good defenseman who's young and cheap. Is he the elite of the elite? Nope, but I haven't seen that expressed sentiment.

I think to your point in your first response, about not having two quality NHL LD's, that actually doesn't help him. If anything, I think it runs the risk of exposing him even faster.

He's a "good" NHL defenseman, who is capable of being very good in spurts, and not so good in other spurts.

But I don't think that's the price we're paying. I think there's a belief, and subsequent price tag attached to him, that likely implies he is "very good" more than he probably is, and that he's going to get even better.

And just like Trouba was never mentioned as an "elite" option, I think theprice tag and expectations are going to outpace what the actual product resembles.

 

[Trxjw]

Given the depth in the org in terms of prospects and how fickle the position is in general, LD is where I'd be most inclined to do some experimenting with shorter term / cheaper contracts. There's certainly potential for a Hanafin or Chychrun to look like a steal in a year or two but there's downside there as well. See if you can get a young RFA who needs a change of scenery or who is stuck behind better players and maybe he blossoms with the opportunity. The more I look at the long term, the less inclined I am to lock in 4, 5, or 6 years on LD.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

IMO, the Rangers don't necessarily need a Keller/Nylander. Would they be great? Sure. As constructed, the Rangers have a lot in place to make a jump next season. I think Laf, much like everybody else expects, will provide an impact on the top three lines from the start. Internally, I believe they plan on shifting somebody to the right side, whether it is Kreider the vet or Panarin, the right-handed shot. I ultimately think Buch ends up being moved like Skjei, not because he isn't good, he certainly is, but he is getting a raise after next season, and trading him will allow the Rangers to shed a little more cap if they need for Strome/Tony + Buch will bring back some value.

Their biggest holes are middle-six (two-way oriented) center, and a LHD who can play some minutes. I think with the assets available to move, both can be filled. I don't think they need a "splash" move, just 1, maybe 2 "old fashioned" hockey trades that get them what they need. If they do make a "splash" move, it should be for a legitimate top pair LHD (Hampus Lindholm).

I see Gorton going after guys like Brodin, Dvorak and Danault before Nylander, Keller or Monahan. I'm also personally a big fan of somebody like Sam Bennett. Great playoff performer and a good jam 3C to complement Zibanejad and Strome.

I think if they put Carolina's pick in play, as well as Georgiev, that is a start. I think the other available assets include Lias (I still believe in to some degree), Kravtsov, Tony OR Nils (Nils would ONLY be for a MAJOR piece), Hajek and Rykov. This is pretty unpopular around these parts, but Chytil isn't untouchable for me. A lot of skill, but not sure he ultimately ends up at C. I think if the Rangers can find a 3C and go into next season with a third line of Chytil-X-Buch, Chytil-X-Fast or Chytil-X-Kravtsov, they're in good shape.

A lot of words but ultimately I don't think they need the splash, unless the deal is too good to pass up. I think a little tinkering is in order, but winning Laf was the gigantic difference-making moment the organization needed. Now they can be opportunistic and pluck secondary pieces to round out what they already have.

I'd be REALLY wary of trading Chytil given his potential and age, so if you do move him, it needs to be in the right deal. But bearing that minor caution in mind, I 100% agree.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Given the depth in the org in terms of prospects and how fickle the position is in general, LD is where I'd be most inclined to do some experimenting with shorter term / cheaper contracts. There's certainly potential for a Hanafin or Chychrun to look like a steal in a year or two but there's downside there as well. See if you can get a young RFA who needs a change of scenery or who is stuck behind better players and maybe he blossoms with the opportunity. The more I look at the long term, the less inclined I am to lock in 4, 5, or 6 years on LD.

I’d be into this as well. Any one you got in mind?

 

[SA16]

Chychrun was very good during the regular season and very bad during the playoffs. Don‘t think he is going anywhere.

Is the entire Arizona team untouchable?

 

[aufheben]

I’d be into this as well. Any one you got in mind?

Dunn and Dermott come to mind.

 

[Tawnos]

Dunn and Dermott come to mind.

I keep seeing Dunn's name come up, but I can't for the life of me figure out what St Louis would be looking for.

 

[aufheben]

I keep seeing Dunn's name come up, but I can't for the life of me figure out what St Louis would be looking for.

Idk, just the only young RFA left handed defensemen I could think of. Blues fans seem to feel Dunn is expendable, which isn’t surprising as that franchise prides itself on defense-first hockey. Maybe their mgmt feels similar.

 

[Trxjw]

I’d be into this as well. Any one you got in mind?

I've mentioned Travis Dermott a few times. I think he kind of took off super quick in Toronto and then things got away from him a little bit. Then he got injured and needed season-ending shoulder surgery in Feb of 2019. He lost his spot to Muzzin and never seemed to quite get back on track after returning in October. I love his game and the tools he brings. Fantastic skater, great in transition, plays with some bite and can win puck battles. I don't see him as a future top pairing guy but he does have the perfect skill set to compliment someone like Trouba. Maybe there's a "greater than the sum of it's parts" kind of pairing there.

Other than Dermott, Vince Dunn is a guy who has come up a few times. I think he's a little more offensive-minded but he's an option. Another guy is Oliver Kylington in Calgary. He's shown flashes of putting it all together but with Giordano, Hanafin, and Valimaki he could struggle to get minutes. I don't like him quite as much as the other two but he's taken good strides since his trainwreck of a draft season.

 

[aufheben]

Toronto seems to be wanting draft picks now, maybe Dermott would be pretty cheap.

They’re missing both their 2020 and 2021 3rds.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Difference being we don't have 2 high quality LD already in the NHL and Chychrun is locked into a very team friendly contract.

true but a year ago this was true about RHD too.

 

[Tawnos]

I've mentioned Travis Dermott a few times. I think he kind of took off super quick in Toronto and then things got away from him a little bit. Then he got injured and needed season-ending shoulder surgery in Feb of 2019. He lost his spot to Muzzin and never seemed to quite get back on track after returning in October. I love his game and the tools he brings. Fantastic skater, great in transition, plays with some bite and can win puck battles. I don't see him as a future top pairing guy but he does have the perfect skill set to compliment someone like Trouba. Maybe there's a "greater than the sum of it's parts" kind of pairing there.

Other than Dermott, Vince Dunn is a guy who has come up a few times. I think he's a little more offensive-minded but he's an option. Another guy is Oliver Kylington in Calgary. He's shown flashes of putting it all together but with Giordano, Hanafin, and Valimaki he could struggle to get minutes. I don't like him quite as much as the other two but he's taken good strides since his trainwreck of a draft season.

Dermott and Kylington are interesting names... possibilities of an Anton Stralman type of pickup.