Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LI

[GoAwayPanarin]

Nylander is much better than Keller and also slightly cheaper

Yeah honestly if Toronto moves on from him, hes going to end up becoming an uber beast somewhere else and I will laugh at them a lot harder than I already do.

 

[n8]

What move do they need to make to replace Strome? Acquiring Monahan/Lindholm would be considered an upgrade to Strome as the 2C making him expendable as we hope. And then you are also getting a potential future 2C. No I don’t think Lundell is 2 years away. 1 year at the most and you can have him slide in as your 3C. I’d say that is incredible value as far as a return goes for Strome. Unless of course you are someone that is a Strome fan and really dont want to see him go. Lundell for him while upgrading to Monahan/Lindholm would be a +++ for this organization moving forward.

unless you have personally scouted Lundell and have professional experience in projecting prospect development, I'm going to take your comment as random internet speculation (on a forum?!) which - fair enough - you can consider mine but I'm going with the common trend. Most draftees take 2-4 years before they reach the NHL so assuming he'll be on the team in 2-3 months seems naive. There's also covid. He has to tear things up in camp (and that's assuming we even have a proper camp) to even not spend the whole season in SM-liiga. Thing about it.

IF we trade Strome
IF we acquire Monahan/Lindholm (insert Sean Bean LotR meme)
IF we get the 8OA
IF Lundell is on the board
IF the Rangers actually draft him
IF the Rangers hold a proper camp
IF Lundell actually attends camp rather than just stay a season in SM-liiga which will probably have started and the US is still quite the ****show in regards to the pandemic
IF Lundell actually makes the team
IF Lundell actually sticks with the team
then, your plan all work out. That's so many ifs. I'm fine with you saying these are your hopes, but really expecting all that to play out? It could definitely happen - not everything in that list needs to happen but there is less than a 1% chance all of that does.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think about it this way: Rangers' ask for a top-6-9 OA as a return for Buch didn't change but other teams (in last year's Edmonton position) would be more comfortable now to part with a pick.

I'd think Buchnevich's value has dropped.

Not because of performance, but because hes 1 year closer to UFA.

He's a tough player to get fair value on though. Most of the dumb GMs are old school and still hold some kind of stigma against Russians and the analytic savvy teams would attempt to see if they could get him with a low ball offer.

We need a new school moron. Someone hire Chayka.

 

[Edge]

Yeah honestly if Toronto moves on from him, hes going to end up becoming an uber beast somewhere else and I will laugh at them a lot harder than I already do.

In a world where the Rangers don't re-sign Kreider and don't draft Lafreniere, revisiting Toronto and discussing Nylander becomes more of a thing.

But not right now.

 

[Irishguy42]

Yeah if I had to choose between Nylander or Keller, it's clearly Nylander AINEC.

 

[Levitate]

You keep coming back to this and have a belief that positions are fungible. They are not. Buchnevich was going to 55 points last year. That is NOT a third line wing. He very much can play on the top line, whether you like it or not.

Panarin, Lafreniere, Kreider ALL play on the opposite side of the ice. Left wings and right wings are not fungible.

There certainly is Kakko and we all expect him to take his place on the top lines soon enough. But Kravstov? He should play one second of an NHL game first, no? And players like Fast do not belong in the top 6.

I like Buch but I think in the long run it's more of a question of salary cap management. He's a good player but he doesnt' bring other things to the team the way someone like Kreider does and therefor isn't likely to get a longer term big contract the same way. You don't need to trade him right now but he might be on the move before they give him another contract.

I actually don’t quite agree with the evaluation of Chyaka. They have had no money. Cap space has been eaten up by guys like Datsyuk, Marian Hossa and Pronger. This league is hard as it is, if you have 15-20 m less to spend than the rest it’s a lot harder. Remember that you also are reward for doing the right things in this league, building culture, developing kids better if you are good etc etc. Since they haven’t lucked out getting top picks I think getting more out of that organization than they have would have taken a miracle. JMHO.

Chayka was the one that made those deals I think? To use cap space they weren't going to use with real money and to acquire some extra assets?
All that said, Chayka tried to essentially pay young players who hadn't proven themselves big money with the idea they'd break out and the contracts would be worth it but he didn't evaluate that situation very well. There's a whole blog post that lays it out pretty well but I'd ahve to dig around to find it again.

 

[Ola]

In a world where the Rangers don't re-sign Kreider and don't draft Lafreniere, revisiting Toronto and discussing Nylander becomes more of a thing.

But not right now.

Nyls can and have played a fair amount of center. Not saying he without any doubt is a good horse to bet on to center a top 1/2 line for a contender, but I wouldn’t rule it out either.

 

[duhmetreE]

Buch and Georgiev for Bennett and Dube +?

Kreider Zibanejad Chytil
Panarin Strome Gauthier
Lafreniere Bennett Dube
Lemieux Howden Fast/Barron

Strome can be signed as a stop-gap. Give more time for Chytil and/or Howden to develop.

Fantasy would be Drury gets hired by FLA. They trade Barkov to us next offseason when he has no intention to re-sign and/or owner wants to cut bills.

 

[TheRedViper]

Buch and Georgiev for Bennett and Dube +?

Kreider Zibanejad Chytil
Panarin Strome Gauthier
Lafreniere Bennett Dube
Lemieux Howden Fast/Barron

Strome can be signed as a stop-gap. Give more time for Chytil and/or Howden to develop.

Fantasy would be Drury gets hired by FLA. They trade Barkov to us next offseason when he has no intention to re-sign and/or owner wants to cut bills.

Forgetting someone pretty big on the right side

 

[Mandar]

Buch and Georgiev for Bennett and Dube +?

Kreider Zibanejad Chytil
Panarin Strome Gauthier
Lafreniere Bennett Dube
Lemieux Howden Fast/Barron

Strome can be signed as a stop-gap. Give more time for Chytil and/or Howden to develop.

Fantasy would be Drury gets hired by FLA. They trade Barkov to us next offseason when he has no intention to re-sign and/or owner wants to cut bills.

Poor Kakko.....we hardly knew ya....

 

[JCProdigy]

Forgetting someone pretty big on the right side

First three letter of his screename is Duh but in this instance it should be

 

[DutchShamrock]

I actually don’t quite agree with the evaluation of Chyaka. They have had no money. Cap space has been eaten up by guys like Datsyuk, Marian Hossa and Pronger. This league is hard as it is, if you have 15-20 m less to spend than the rest it’s a lot harder. Remember that you also are reward for doing the right things in this league, building culture, developing kids better if you are good etc etc. Since they haven’t lucked out getting top picks I think getting more out of that organization than they have would have taken a miracle. JMHO.

Does Chayka bear no brunt of the blame for being the guy that traded for 2 of those 3 contracts? He handicapped himself. He made the Stepan trade and gave away a high pick and ADA. Chayka is the embodiment of what some people feel about our organization. The whole perception that Gorton is the smartest man in the room and does thing to be contrary. It's hard enough running a small market team, but Chayka didn't make it any easier.

 

[bobbop]

Would be big fan of adding Dvorak. Though @Fitzy point on PK is interesting. Doing a 5 min overview of his stats this year he was 4th best among regular AZ forwards on xGA/60 following Fischer, Capobianco, and Keller. 3rd best among regular fowards in xGF %. And from a quality standpoint 2nd/3rd among regular forwards (if you consider Hayton's 20 games) in HDCF %. Seems like far from a huge defensive liability.

I know @bobbop has said no way on Dvorak though. It will be interesting to see what direction the new GM takes that franchise.

I still think Dvorak will be in the highly unlikely to be available category but today’s ruling really muddies the water in Arizona.

The Coyotes will not have a pick in the first three rounds this year. Next year it’s no pick in the first and third rounds and if Hall does decide to stay, the third heading to New Jersey upgrades to a second. That leaves the draft cupboard bare and all of this comes with the Coyotes at $74.7MM committed next year to 17 players. Something will have to give.

All of this also throws the identity of the next GM into question. I had heard that AGM Steve Sullivan had a pretty good chance of getting promoted to the GM. Job. Now, with him likely being a party to the scandal, an outsider seems much more likely. That could change.

Stay tuned...

 

[Barnaby]

Fair enough. I am not advocating that he is not being brought back, just where the diversification can come from. Ultimately, I think that Fast will not be back if there are more dollars to be had as UFA.

I could see some team overpaying him for his “intangibles” on a 3 or 4 year deal. I don’t want to be that team. If I’m wrong maybe he has to settle for a 1 or 2 year deal thanks to the stagnant cap. In that case I wouldn’t mind keeping him around. This team def needs diversification though whether that’s a loss of him, and/or a trade of Buchnevich is yet to be seen. I don’t want to overreact to a 3 game sample size, but that Carolina series did show some glaring holes. This team is built better for regular season hockey than deep playoff hockey. This stew is missing a couple important ingredients. Hopefully Laf is one of them!

 

[Boris Zubov]

They are dumb.

Staal+Geo+21 for Brodin+9.

Nobody's that dumb.

 

[aufheben]

Buch and Georgiev for Bennett and Dube +?

Kreider Zibanejad Chytil
Panarin Strome Gauthier
Lafreniere Bennett Dube
Lemieux Howden Fast/Barron

Strome can be signed as a stop-gap. Give more time for Chytil and/or Howden to develop.

Fantasy would be Drury gets hired by FLA. They trade Barkov to us next offseason when he has no intention to re-sign and/or owner wants to cut bills.

Those guys combined for like 28 points. Buchnevich almost scored twice as many points as the two of them put together lol.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Nobody's that dumb.

Counter point:

https://www.si.com/nhl/2019/07/01/m...is heading to,million AAV, the team announced.

I was half joking and yes I know, Different GM.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Let's assume for a minute that William Nylander and Clayton Keller are both available and will cost the same in terms of assets. Who do you choose and why?

I choose neither.

 

[Trxjw]

Dvorak is definitely on the list with a guy like Lindholm for me. A good complimentary player with a reasonable cap hit and term that has enough talent to potentially over perform his contract when he's surrounded by the elite wingers the Rangers have/will have.

Yotes of course have cap issues but I wonder if they'll look to slash salary again. If Hank retired, would it lighten the price tag on a guy like Dvorak if the Rangers agreed to take Raanta back as well? Could get himself back on track here and would maybe help Kakko's comfort level by having another Finn on the roster.

 

[bobbop]

Does Chayka bear no brunt of the blame for being the guy that traded for 2 of those 3 contracts? He handicapped himself. He made the Stepan trade and gave away a high pick and ADA. Chayka is the embodiment of what some people feel about our organization. The whole perception that Gorton is the smartest man in the room and does thing to be contrary. It's hard enough running a small market team, but Chayka didn't make it any easier.

What Chayka did trading for those contracts was brilliant. The Coyotes weren’t going to spend that money. They got draft picks and in one case a very desirable player (Lawson Crouse) for holding those contracts. Insurance paid the salaries. He did make the Stepan trade and when he made it I would have made the exact same trade. DeAngelo was lousy in Arizona. I give Chayka credit...he tried a lot of different things. What had really hurt the Coyotes was a long history of draft incompetence under Don Maloney (sound familiar) punctuated by taking Dylan Strome over Mitch Marner in 2016.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Would love to swindle the Coyotes out of Chychrun.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Would love to swindle the Coyotes out of Chychurn.

Up until a month ago I would have said 100% impossible.

Now that Chyka has crashed the plane into the mountain, and Chychrun was his boi, there is at the least a small chance.

 

[bobbop]

Would love to swindle the Coyotes out of Chychrun.

Chychrun was very good during the regular season and very bad during the playoffs. Don‘t think he is going anywhere.

 

[Edge]

Chychrun is also a guy with an interesting saga on HF Boards.

He was seen as a top 5 pick for the 2016 draft about five years ago.

Then he struggled his draft year and a bunch of people didn't want to take a chance on him.

Now he's a guy a lot people want again.

And yet something tells me that if we had him, he'd be the subject of a lot of debate around here.

 

[JC704]

IMO, the Rangers don't necessarily need a Keller/Nylander. Would they be great? Sure. As constructed, the Rangers have a lot in place to make a jump next season. I think Laf, much like everybody else expects, will provide an impact on the top three lines from the start. Internally, I believe they plan on shifting somebody to the right side, whether it is Kreider the vet or Panarin, the right-handed shot. I ultimately think Buch ends up being moved like Skjei, not because he isn't good, he certainly is, but he is getting a raise after next season, and trading him will allow the Rangers to shed a little more cap if they need for Strome/Tony + Buch will bring back some value.

Their biggest holes are middle-six (two-way oriented) center, and a LHD who can play some minutes. I think with the assets available to move, both can be filled. I don't think they need a "splash" move, just 1, maybe 2 "old fashioned" hockey trades that get them what they need. If they do make a "splash" move, it should be for a legitimate top pair LHD (Hampus Lindholm).

I see Gorton going after guys like Brodin, Dvorak and Danault before Nylander, Keller or Monahan. I'm also personally a big fan of somebody like Sam Bennett. Great playoff performer and a good jam 3C to complement Zibanejad and Strome.

I think if they put Carolina's pick in play, as well as Georgiev, that is a start. I think the other available assets include Lias (I still believe in to some degree), Kravtsov, Tony OR Nils (Nils would ONLY be for a MAJOR piece), Hajek and Rykov. This is pretty unpopular around these parts, but Chytil isn't untouchable for me. A lot of skill, but not sure he ultimately ends up at C. I think if the Rangers can find a 3C and go into next season with a third line of Chytil-X-Buch, Chytil-X-Fast or Chytil-X-Kravtsov, they're in good shape.

A lot of words but ultimately I don't think they need the splash, unless the deal is too good to pass up. I think a little tinkering is in order, but winning Laf was the gigantic difference-making moment the organization needed. Now they can be opportunistic and pluck secondary pieces to round out what they already have.