Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LI
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- Aug 5, 2010
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2nd!
@cwede from the previous thread, the short answer is that a quality LD upgrade one way or another would come at the expense of moving ADA. I think it's the most straight-forward way to address talent redistribution from RD to LD.
But the point taken that if the Rangers were to bring LD and sign ADA to an extension (bridge or longer) then either one of Lindgren or Buchnevich (in case of 4-4 format for expansion protection) will have to be exposed. This should be included in the decision making but it's highly likely that upgrade at LD will come at the expense of ADA or Buch (if not both) anyway so the expansion dilemma would resolve itself.
@cwede from the previous thread, the short answer is that a quality LD upgrade one way or another would come at the expense of moving ADA. I think it's the most straight-forward way to address talent redistribution from RD to LD.
But the point taken that if the Rangers were to bring LD and sign ADA to an extension (bridge or longer) then either one of Lindgren or Buchnevich (in case of 4-4 format for expansion protection) will have to be exposed. This should be included in the decision making but it's highly likely that upgrade at LD will come at the expense of ADA or Buch (if not both) anyway so the expansion dilemma would resolve itself.
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Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
Pretty good and balanced read by Vince on ADA:
NY Rangers free agents: A complicated case for Tony DeAngelo
I would be surprised if the ultimate outcome this offseason was anything besides a 2 year deal. I would argue for a longer deal in the case of either keeping him long term or trading him (does Skjei get a 1st round pick without the term he had?) but I can understand the hesitance and wanting to see if he can produce at this level consistently.
Count me firmly as a believer but I can understand mgmt taking a cautious stance even if I would prefer a little more measured risk taking in this regard.
NY Rangers free agents: A complicated case for Tony DeAngelo
I would be surprised if the ultimate outcome this offseason was anything besides a 2 year deal. I would argue for a longer deal in the case of either keeping him long term or trading him (does Skjei get a 1st round pick without the term he had?) but I can understand the hesitance and wanting to see if he can produce at this level consistently.
Count me firmly as a believer but I can understand mgmt taking a cautious stance even if I would prefer a little more measured risk taking in this regard.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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I strongly believe Skjei would have gotten more in a trade had he been a RFA this summer rather that being signed for 4 years at $5.25M.
HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
Obviously almost impossible for us, with incomplete information, to assess. You could very well be right.
In my brain it does seem like small market teams are always bitching about term.
Fitzy
Very Stable Genius
- Jan 29, 2009
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I do think a bridge, rather than a long term extension, makes sense for NYR's play with ADA. It pushes the decision down the road and still leaves NYR with an RFA protected asset to trade if they decide to go that route, either next offseason or the year after.
For Tony, he's got a lot to gain. Two more seasons like this one and he's looking at 7x10 on his big contract.
On the other hand, he's got a lot to lose. If he regresses (Or has a serious injury) and takes that 2x5 over, say, a 8x7, he's left a lot of money on the table.
For Tony, he's got a lot to gain. Two more seasons like this one and he's looking at 7x10 on his big contract.
On the other hand, he's got a lot to lose. If he regresses (Or has a serious injury) and takes that 2x5 over, say, a 8x7, he's left a lot of money on the table.
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
I've been saying for almost a year a bridge makes sense for Tony. People have been screeching about the need to lock him up long term, but the bridge is the most sensible way forward.
Giving him 2 years allows the Rangers to give Lundkvist more time, and *potentially* raise his value if he continues to play well. He'd have 1 RFA year left so whoever trades for him doesn't need to worry about him necessarily walking for nothing.
And Tony gets a large raise now, and is one step closer to getting paid big time. If he wants too, his agent can muscle the acquiring team/Rangers for a 1 year arbitration deal to go right into UFA. Or he gets a fat long term contract with his new team/Rangers.
The only downside is the Rangers *may* have to pay more if they decide to keep him in 2 years. But I'll take the flexibility that's provided with the bridge contract in that situation
Also no offense to Vince, but the Rangers aren't going to tell anyone if Tony's antics are pissing them off lol
Giving him 2 years allows the Rangers to give Lundkvist more time, and *potentially* raise his value if he continues to play well. He'd have 1 RFA year left so whoever trades for him doesn't need to worry about him necessarily walking for nothing.
And Tony gets a large raise now, and is one step closer to getting paid big time. If he wants too, his agent can muscle the acquiring team/Rangers for a 1 year arbitration deal to go right into UFA. Or he gets a fat long term contract with his new team/Rangers.
The only downside is the Rangers *may* have to pay more if they decide to keep him in 2 years. But I'll take the flexibility that's provided with the bridge contract in that situation
Also no offense to Vince, but the Rangers aren't going to tell anyone if Tony's antics are pissing them off lol
Fitzy
Very Stable Genius
- Jan 29, 2009
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And if he's played this well offensively for two more seasons and shored up the defensive aspect of his game, it would probably be more than worth it for the Rangers to move out another player with contract in order to keep him on that deal.
DutchShamrock
Registered User
@GoAwayStaal
I do think it is overblown and I also agree that he is a shell of his former self, which to be honest, he was a dying breed at his best. He wouldn't be effective in any circumstance because the NHL was changing the very year he was drafted.
I will disagree with the other point too. There are people in the GDT that will lay blame for any goal against, botched play or miscue even when he had no fault. It made those threads a must avoid like the trade board. I'm not saying it's an epidemic or everybody is guilty, but the blame game goes too far.
All in all I agree with you and @nyr2k2 in your assessments. The name calling is something that was boiling under the surface for me and I finally addressed it. I'm not going to harp on it. Fine, he should have worn a visor but it doesn't excuse other people using monikers. He's not above reproach but basic decency is deserved.
I probably should have let this die with the last thread but I didn't want us to have any misunderstanding. I wasn't accusing anyone because frankly I blow past the posts that don't deserve any time. You back up your position and I will respect informed opinions.
I do think it is overblown and I also agree that he is a shell of his former self, which to be honest, he was a dying breed at his best. He wouldn't be effective in any circumstance because the NHL was changing the very year he was drafted.
I will disagree with the other point too. There are people in the GDT that will lay blame for any goal against, botched play or miscue even when he had no fault. It made those threads a must avoid like the trade board. I'm not saying it's an epidemic or everybody is guilty, but the blame game goes too far.
All in all I agree with you and @nyr2k2 in your assessments. The name calling is something that was boiling under the surface for me and I finally addressed it. I'm not going to harp on it. Fine, he should have worn a visor but it doesn't excuse other people using monikers. He's not above reproach but basic decency is deserved.
I probably should have let this die with the last thread but I didn't want us to have any misunderstanding. I wasn't accusing anyone because frankly I blow past the posts that don't deserve any time. You back up your position and I will respect informed opinions.
East Coast Bias
Registered User
Still find it absolutely hilarious that Tony and his Tone brigade spent a week fighting with everyone on twitter over advanced stats only for everyone, including Vince, to use the same advanced stats to advocate FOR him.
They didn't even stop to check if the stats helped/hurt him. They were so busy whining about an innocuous article that used Game Score to project how a hypothetical #1 pick could impact a team next season. Lol. so so stupid.
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
That's the funniest thing about it
These dummies rail on numbers, whilst their agents are going into contract negotiation meetings using the same numbers to ask for a raise lol
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
A lot of players who might otherwise have gotten long-term deals might be getting 2-year deals this time around.
NYR Viper
Registered User
My only concern with giving Tony a short deal is that if the team decides to keep him, then they will have shot themselves in the foot because Tony in 2 years time 1 year from UFA is going to be EXPENSIVE and with so many players coming up for new contracts around that time it's not going to help matters at that time.
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
I would say unless Tony has somehow lost his appetite to make money and gives the Rangers a stupid good deal on a long term deal, I wouldn't even consider talking more than 2 years with him
DanielBrassard
It's all so tiresome
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
- Oct 8, 2010
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People like Tony take great pride in being willfully ignorant.
NYR Viper
Registered User
You know him personally?
East Coast Bias
Registered User
I just have this vision of Gorton and JD sitting across the table hearing the pitch, hearing all the advanced stats he topped out on and how he's truly the 4th most valuable defender according to GAR, and then just pushing a few printed tweets across the table to Tony and his agent. Lol
- Sep 17, 2007
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I would be very surprised if Tony is here 3 years from now.
Yeah, I don't see it, either. The dynamics of the deal he'll want, how it lines up with the other players we have and deals we'll need to make, some of the social media stuff...it just seems like it's headed for an eventual trade.
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
the thing is Tony doesn't need advances stats to state his case because his traditional numbers were great, among the best in the NHL. This isn't an Ondrej Kase situation.
HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
Basically sums it up. I’d say it makes sense if the NYR are 60/40 or more towards dealing him.
A bridge > continued production like last season means the NYR may have no choice but to shed him down the road. His trade value should be extremely high in that instance. The bridge helps the NYR avoid a Zaitsev / Skjei situation but also ensures that they will basically never be able to have a “bargain” contract either.
If he goes to arbitration, he basically has to use the advanced stats regardless. There are only certain things you can use in arbitration and official NHL stats are one of those things. He can think they're dumb and meaningless, but if his side were to choose not to use them to buttress his case, that would be stupid because the Rangers sure as shit will cherry pick the few advanced stats that would make him look like less of a player.
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