Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part L

[Shesterkybomb]

I don't know where the Eichel talk came from but it can go back there because there's no way we give them what he is worth in a trade, plus with his contract there is just no way, its silliness

 

[Shesterkybomb]

This conversation is getting a little off-topic, can we go back to discussing the pros and cons of signing DeAngelo to a long term contract? I'll start with the cons:



@GoAwayStaal, @EdJovanovski , @Igor Shestyorkin

That was hard to watch

 

[Thirty One]

This conversation is getting a little off-topic, can we go back to discussing the pros and cons of signing DeAngelo to a long term contract? I'll start with the cons:

I don't know why a lot of those clips were on there, but I remember the 2-on-1 at 3:59 and blocked shot as the last man back at 6:20 as two times when I felt he didn't understand the premise of defensive play.

 

[DanielBrassard]

This conversation is getting a little off-topic, can we go back to discussing the pros and cons of signing DeAngelo to a long term contract? I'll start with the cons:



@GoAwayStaal, @EdJovanovski , @Igor Shestyorkin

Lmao a whole 7 minutes and some of those weren't even on him. Not to mention most people would agree he's not good defensively. But his offensive impact is so tremendous he doesn't have to be to be extremely important

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Fox must suck too since he's so close to DeAngelo in giveaways/60. You know why Staal has lower giveaways/60? No one wants to give him the f**king puck and they don't scheme around getting him the puck because they know he sucks with it(ever notice how Staal's primary pass is D to D to let DeAngelo handle transition? If you watched a damn game you'd know). Having the puck more will lead to more giveaways.

Panarin, 3.46 giveaways/60. Terrible player!

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If you look at the players at the top of the giveaway category, you'll find a laundry list of some of the best players in this league.

 

[Thirty One]

Fox must suck too since he's so close to DeAngelo in giveaways/60. You know why Staal has lower giveaways/60? Because no one wants to give him the f**king puck because they know he sucks with it. Having the puck more will lead to more giveaways.

Panarin, 3.46 giveaways/60. Terrible player!

Someone once said that the only use that giveaway and takeaway stats have are letting you know whose opinions you can ignore entirely.

Staal would have more giveaways compared to DeAngelo/Fox if they tracked it differently. When you give up the puck throwing it off the boards, they don't give you a giveaway. When you have a target and miss him, you do.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Someone once said that the only use that giveaway and takeaway stats have are letting you know whose opinions you can ignore entirely.

Staal would have more giveaways compared to DeAngelo/Fox if they tracked it differently. When you give up the puck throwing it off the boards, they don't give you a giveaway. When you have a target and miss him, you do.

Exactly. The most flawed, baseless stat he could have used. And I'm not sure where anyone said TDA was good defensively. His role isn't to be a shutdown defenseman, it's to generate offense(which: newsflash, he does). Anyone with common sense would know this. John Carlson is probably going to win the norris trophy and he is straight up atrocious defensively.

 

[and 99 others]

Someone once said that the only use that giveaway and takeaway stats have are letting you know whose opinions you can ignore entirely.

but how many followers on twitter did they have and how many tableau viz charts did they put together using data they couldn't substantiate themselves?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'll give @1 Other Person credit though, at least he took the time to put something together, as misguided as it may be.

 

[Thirty One]

Quick look at the highest giveaway seasons for the Rangers:

Legit might be the 3 best individual seasons.

 

[Thirty One]

but how many followers on twitter did they have and how many tableau viz charts did they put together using data they couldn't substantiate themselves?

I don't know.

 

[Fitzy]

Quick look at the highest giveaway seasons for the Rangers:

Legit might be the 3 best individual seasons.

Yup, drive the play, give the puck away.

Some stats are just not helpful.

 

[and 99 others]

Quick look at the highest giveaway seasons for the Rangers:

Legit might be the 3 best individual seasons.

offensive players who have the pucks on their sticks are inevitably going to turn the puck over more than the average player. My point is you don't need a 2nd/3rd pairing D doing that, no matter how much offense they bring to the table

 

[Thirty One]

offensive players who have the pucks on their sticks are inevitably going to turn the puck over more than the average player. My point is you don't need a 2nd/3rd pairing D doing that, no matter how much offense they bring to the table

I guess I don't understand why you would accept it for offensive forwards but not an offensive defenseman who carries a disproportionate burden of the transition game.

 

[East Coast Bias]

An offensive defenseman being unfairly rated here?? Can’t be.

So much of this is the same debate as it was with Yandle. But he didn’t have a cult like following. So this will hit new levels of people taking this personally.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

but how many followers on twitter did they have and how many tableau viz charts did they put together using data they couldn't substantiate themselves?

What did you substantiate using cherrypicked video clips that amounted to 14 minutes of his 68 game season while also using an absurdly flawed stat like giveaways?

 

[Thirty One]

An offensive defenseman being unfairly rated here?? Can’t be.

So much of this is the same debate as it was with Yandle. But he didn’t have a cult like following. So this will hit new levels of people taking this personally.

The people I really don't get are the ones who had no time for Yandle but love DeAngelo.

 

[and 99 others]

Lmao a whole 7 minutes and some of those weren't even on him. Not to mention most people would agree he's not good defensively. But his offensive impact is so tremendous he doesn't have to be to be extremely important

Each clip was chosen because there was something DeAngelo did/didn't do that caused a defensive liability. If you have questions on specific plays I'd be happy to go over defensive zone coverages and positioning with you Daniel.

I'm sure I could make a longer video but:

1. I'm going off of the 5 minute youtube recaps the NHL puts out
2. Would you honestly sit through a 45min / hour long video of any player's defensive lapses?

 

[bbny]

This conversation is getting a little off-topic, can we go back to discussing the pros and cons of signing DeAngelo to a long term contract? I'll start with the cons:



@GoAwayStaal, @EdJovanovski , @Igor Shestyorkin

So whoever made that video went through a whole year of DeAngelo and found roughly 30 clips (not re-watching to count them). Given that several weren't even on him, that's probably generous. For arguments sake, I'll let it slide. That's 30 mistakes found across 71 games and over 1300 minutes of ice time. Not bad!

Do Staal next. See you in 2030.

 

[offdacrossbar]

This excercise in proving ADA is poor defensively is tiresome. He’s got some holes for sure.

let’s agree on a few things

1. Tony isn’t a defensive dman. He’s a guy who plays adequate D But is prone to lapses and moments of indecision. Playing 2 on 1’s poorly is not unique to him. Even Adam fox- everyone’s wet dream, makes mistakes in his own zone. tony also plays with marc Staal as his 5v5 partner. Please adjust thinking with that in mind.

2. His ability to push the puck, make smart crisp passes and carry the mail 5v5 is unique on this defense but for Adam fox. Those 2 together give us the ability to have an extra forward on the blue line. Tony numbers last season were elite relative to his peers.

3. ADA has shown the ability to play the PP1 QB role with confidence and poise. He’s shown the ability to score goals and make sublime passes with consistency. He’s our best PP QB.

some here can not overlook his defensive lapses but when you factor in his ability to create offense from the blue line and his possession numbers, reasonable minds would conclude his value is still very high.

I’m hoping for a 2 yr bridge type deal @ 5 per will keep him around.

nils lunkvist is a good looking prospect but probably 2 years out. I’m not ready to hand him a spot yet.

 

[Thirty One]

So whoever made that video went through a whole year of DeAngelo and found roughly 30 clips (not re-watching to count them). Given that several weren't even on him, that's probably generous. For arguments sake, I'll let it slide. That's 30 mistakes found across 71 games and over 1300 minutes of ice time. Not bad!

Do Staal next. See you in 2030.

Well it wasn't an exhaustive list. This wasn't on there:

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Well it wasn't an exhaustive list. This wasn't on there:

Now that's what I call a giveaway™

 

[DanielBrassard]

Well it wasn't an exhaustive list. This wasn't on there:

Is the focus on all of his mistakes or his ability defensively?
I thought it was the latter.

 

[bbny]

Well it wasn't an exhaustive list. This wasn't on there:

Staal's fault