People signing up to trade Kakko for a year of Kane are out of their minds.
Roster Building Thread - Part II: Entry Draft Edition
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apoptygma
2-5-9-11
- Apr 9, 2011
- 519
- 387
I have just been browsing last 4 or so pages, but is Colin White a possible buy low middle C candidate?
Seems like what we want next to Panarin, a 3-zone C that is young and should not cost a fortune on a shorter deal. Might also be a good spot for him to rebuildt his value playing 5v5 with some of the really good wingers NYR have.
Seems like what we want next to Panarin, a 3-zone C that is young and should not cost a fortune on a shorter deal. Might also be a good spot for him to rebuildt his value playing 5v5 with some of the really good wingers NYR have.
Priorae
Registered User
Toews af 50% retention is probably a better fit on the rangers than Kane (for the right price). His 58% FO would be a weapon here.
Rongomania
Registered User
We need people who can still skate tho yes? The old captains legs are cooked aren't they?
Yikes, when checking cap friendly, our cap situation is even worse than I expected.
Am I missing something below??
(a) Short 3 forwards and 1 back-up goalie (assuming Jones is among top 6 Ds) — we have 9.2m in Cap space.
(b) Assuming 1 forward and 1 back-up goalie cost 1m a piece, that puts us at 7.2m for a team short of Kakko and 2C.
(c) Are we really giving Kakko a 1 year deal, given that we already have Laf, K’Miller, Chytil and Kravy becoming RFAs next summer?
Where is Kakko coming in at? 2.5m per for 2 years?
That leaves us with 4.7m for a 2nd line C. I will revert to what this means in (e) below.
(d) Can any savings be made? Of course we can attach like a 2nd/3rd round pick to Nemeth and move his salary but he is still replaced on the roster by app. another 1m D, so that saves us just 1.5m. That means 6.2m.
In addition, I assign the cheapest players 1m instead of like 850k, but you need some flexibility under the cap. That evens this out.
(e) Next season, 2023/24, K’Andre Miller and Laf must be resigned. Filip Chytil is also a RFA. How much will they cost us?
K Miller should come in and 5m. Laf is determined by his play.
The cap in 23’ will be 83,500,000m. We already knows this. Let’s start over:
1. In 23’ we will have a roster with 5 forwards, 5 Ds and 1 goalie, i.e short of 8 forwards, 2 Ds and 1 back-up goalie, for 25m of cap space (assuming Kakko gets 2 years.
2. The 4th line, back-up goalie and spare F+D is filled with cheap players.
3. This leaves us with app. 15.4m in 2023 to resign (assuming KKs bridge is 2 years):
Laf,
Chytil,
Kravy, and
K’ Miller
This is assuming of course that the “2c” position is — not — filled yet. Let’s say we bridge K’ Miller to 3 years 5.4m, we are left with 10m to sign:
“2c”,
Laf,
Chytil, and
Kravy
Goodrow and Nemeth are good buy-outs in 2023. If we BO them in 23’ and replace them with 1m players, we get another 3.5m.
(f) How can we be expected to be planning to fill “2c” with an established C paid and with term beyond 22/23??
The space doesn’t exist. Even if we absolutely max our cap space with BOs and fill all other spots with cheap players, resign the kids (Chytil, Kravy and Laf) to pressed bridge deals, assuming none of them performs, we at the most could spare 4.5m to 5m for “2c”. But that is assuming that none of the kids breaks out. Like if Kravy has a good rookie season, it destroys any chance of giving a 2c 4.5m. It’s perhaps 3m.
(g) Seriously, Chytil has arbitration rights in in 23’ (right?), isn’t it more or less a forgone conclusion that he is history? Kids get paid in arbitration. Any kind of production from him and we would never be able to keep him. What does he get in arb if he gets 40 pts in 22/23, 3.25-3.75m? We can’t afford that, even if we max the buy-outs.
(h) Some are thinking, but we could perhaps deal any of the vets?
The only tradable contracts on the roster for 23’ assumed above would be Lindgren’s 3m, Fox and Shesty. Everyone else has full NMCs.
(i) Honestly, if — any — of the kids breaks out (Laf, Kravy, Chytil and co, not KK if he gets a 2y bridge) don’t rule out a buy-out of Jacob Trouba in 23’. That saves us 5.7m in 23’ and “just” cost us 17m over 5 years in cap.
Am I missing something below??
(a) Short 3 forwards and 1 back-up goalie (assuming Jones is among top 6 Ds) — we have 9.2m in Cap space.
(b) Assuming 1 forward and 1 back-up goalie cost 1m a piece, that puts us at 7.2m for a team short of Kakko and 2C.
(c) Are we really giving Kakko a 1 year deal, given that we already have Laf, K’Miller, Chytil and Kravy becoming RFAs next summer?
Where is Kakko coming in at? 2.5m per for 2 years?
That leaves us with 4.7m for a 2nd line C. I will revert to what this means in (e) below.
(d) Can any savings be made? Of course we can attach like a 2nd/3rd round pick to Nemeth and move his salary but he is still replaced on the roster by app. another 1m D, so that saves us just 1.5m. That means 6.2m.
In addition, I assign the cheapest players 1m instead of like 850k, but you need some flexibility under the cap. That evens this out.
(e) Next season, 2023/24, K’Andre Miller and Laf must be resigned. Filip Chytil is also a RFA. How much will they cost us?
K Miller should come in and 5m. Laf is determined by his play.
The cap in 23’ will be 83,500,000m. We already knows this. Let’s start over:
1. In 23’ we will have a roster with 5 forwards, 5 Ds and 1 goalie, i.e short of 8 forwards, 2 Ds and 1 back-up goalie, for 25m of cap space (assuming Kakko gets 2 years.
2. The 4th line, back-up goalie and spare F+D is filled with cheap players.
3. This leaves us with app. 15.4m in 2023 to resign (assuming KKs bridge is 2 years):
Laf,
Chytil,
Kravy, and
K’ Miller
This is assuming of course that the “2c” position is — not — filled yet. Let’s say we bridge K’ Miller to 3 years 5.4m, we are left with 10m to sign:
“2c”,
Laf,
Chytil, and
Kravy
Goodrow and Nemeth are good buy-outs in 2023. If we BO them in 23’ and replace them with 1m players, we get another 3.5m.
(f) How can we be expected to be planning to fill “2c” with an established C paid and with term beyond 22/23??
The space doesn’t exist. Even if we absolutely max our cap space with BOs and fill all other spots with cheap players, resign the kids (Chytil, Kravy and Laf) to pressed bridge deals, assuming none of them performs, we at the most could spare 4.5m to 5m for “2c”. But that is assuming that none of the kids breaks out. Like if Kravy has a good rookie season, it destroys any chance of giving a 2c 4.5m. It’s perhaps 3m.
(g) Seriously, Chytil has arbitration rights in in 23’ (right?), isn’t it more or less a forgone conclusion that he is history? Kids get paid in arbitration. Any kind of production from him and we would never be able to keep him. What does he get in arb if he gets 40 pts in 22/23, 3.25-3.75m? We can’t afford that, even if we max the buy-outs.
(h) Some are thinking, but we could perhaps deal any of the vets?
The only tradable contracts on the roster for 23’ assumed above would be Lindgren’s 3m, Fox and Shesty. Everyone else has full NMCs.
(i) Honestly, if — any — of the kids breaks out (Laf, Kravy, Chytil and co, not KK if he gets a 2y bridge) don’t rule out a buy-out of Jacob Trouba in 23’. That saves us 5.7m in 23’ and “just” cost us 17m over 5 years in cap.
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dshea19
Registered User
- Jun 9, 2015
- 620
- 686
Trouba and or Kreider being gone next year is a bit of a forgone conclusion. One might have been this off-season if Kreider didn’t score 50 or the deep playoff run. That bought another season.
apoptygma
2-5-9-11
- Apr 9, 2011
- 519
- 387
Yes, White needs a place to play where ha can play with good wingers, and the NYR have several C spots open. Should be a good match for both. I'm sure White would want to try to regain some value for a later long contract, and riding shotgun to some of our strong wingers should help him with that, on the other side he has struggled with injuries and form the last seasons, so should not comman neither a long or an expensive contract.
NYR Viper
Registered User
Motte
Raffle
Hornqvist
Go get 2 of these guys. It fills out the bottom-6 and with their additions the team won’t need to pursue at the deadline for a bottom-6 vet. They’re all very useful depth players. Specially Hornqvist who can play net front on PP2. The team, outside of Kreider doesn’t have some in that spot
Raffle
Hornqvist
Go get 2 of these guys. It fills out the bottom-6 and with their additions the team won’t need to pursue at the deadline for a bottom-6 vet. They’re all very useful depth players. Specially Hornqvist who can play net front on PP2. The team, outside of Kreider doesn’t have some in that spot
Please see the post 3 above yours and then explain how the heck this works in 23-24. 4 buyouts instead of 2?
irishlaxburger2
Registered User
It’s a relatively small point, but incredibly important nonetheless. The Rangers need to shed the Nemeth and Reaves contracts. And it has to be done via trade instead of buyouts. Things are so tight that the difference between the two is incredibly important.
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This nonsense needs to stop. Of all the things that this team needs to improve, FO's are at the bottom of the list. Plus NO ONE should want that f*** face on his team. He is NOT a better fit just because he plays a certain position and has good face off numbers, he's a heavily declining player who missed an entire year with some mystery ailment (who knows what it was or if it comes back) who sympathized with a GM who overlooked major abuse because apparently, winning was more important than the well being of one of his player.
Putting Toews aside.
What are the defensive zone faceoff metrics of the top teams?
And then offensive zone?
Curious. Because being able to win a faceoff does matter. Does not mean we should just go grab Toews to solve that.
I have no idea how to pull that data, maybe someone else does?
Anyway, If your team is good at getting the puck back when they don't have it, it's really not that important at all 5v5.
They're more important situationally when there is some man advantage/disadvantage on the ice (PP, PK, 6v5 or 5v6) but even so the Rangers PP has been fire for a few seasons now with shitty FO numbers.
If you can get a player who is good a bunch of other things and FO's just happen to be something else they're strong at, great. If FO's are a player's calling card, I'd lose their number.
TominNC
Registered User
Too much talent on this team. Unless you're hoping/predicting major injuries to Shesty and others. This fan base never ceases to amaze with it's ability to wallow in bad vibes.
There are. But I was reacting in particular about the fantasies of being so bad next year we get the #1 pick.
NickyFotiu
NYR 2024 Cup Champs!
- Sep 29, 2011
- 17,223
- 9,242
Id be willing to try Stastny on a 1 year 3-4 mill deal for 2 reasons.
1. He is good on faceoffs.
2. His dad was such a cool player lol.
NYR Viper
Registered User
Can’t be, both have NMCs.
The savings aren’t big, but buying out Trouba in 23’ is a real alternative. Saves us 5.7m in 23’, 3.7m in 24’ and then 3.7m in 25’ to then cost us 2.2m in dead cap for 3 years. If it’s between losing a real young stud kid due to the cap squeeze in the 2nd last season of flat cap in 23’ or wasting 17m of cap space over 6 years, I think it’s an alternative that can’t be overlooked.
Kreider’s contract is buy-out safe. No earnings in the first years.
Goodrow being bought out in 23’ is also not unlikely. We even get a cap refund the first two years:
As far as the NHL being a copycat league, you have to wonder how Colorado's dominant run will be assimilated into other teams game plans. Obviously the focus will fall on speed and pick moving on the backend, but to your point Colorado doesn't really put a premium on positions as such at the forward position. Having MacKinnon as 1C helps that but Landeskog takes a lot of faceoffs, Rantanen played center for them, etc. I'm not confident Gms will "go there" but I do think that the importance of the center 'position' is really overstated.
EdJovanovski
#FreeRempe
We should be all in on Malkin
Everyone complains about our center depth and we have the opportunity to get a generational one who’s Russian, and nobody wants him lmao. 97% WAR this season. Without giving up any asset.
Panarin - Malkin - Kravtsov
Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Kreider
Othmann - Chytil - Kakko
That would now be one of the best center depth in the league and one of the best offense in the league.
Everyone complains about our center depth and we have the opportunity to get a generational one who’s Russian, and nobody wants him lmao. 97% WAR this season. Without giving up any asset.
Panarin - Malkin - Kravtsov
Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Kreider
Othmann - Chytil - Kakko
That would now be one of the best center depth in the league and one of the best offense in the league.
NYR Viper
Registered User
I know there will be veterans available this offseason, as we have discussed, for lower cap hit numbers. I’m hoping the Rangers can get a couple of them signed for more than 1 season. Look at Perry as an example. He had a good year in Tampa because he was put in a position to succeed but the team gets to reap the benefit of having the player for a 2nd year on a reasonable deal.
EdJovanovski
#FreeRempe
Kane had 92pts this season, Kakko has 58pts in the last 3 seasons. 1 year of Kane = about 5 seasons of Kakko
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