Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXVIII: 3-2-1 TDL almost here!

[Calad]

I told u guys earlier this draft is absolutely garbage. No one is afraid to give up late firsts right now.

the top guys in the draft barely project as middle six middle pair dmen. The goalie is the best kid in the whole thing.

If Wallstedt falls to them I think he'd be a steal

 

[Fitzy]

If Wallstedt falls to them I think he'd be a steal

I'm not ready for the subsequent decade of arguments that would ensue from that selection.

 

[DudMan28]

Jarmo coming out of the deadline looking great

The sentiment is that this draft is weaker than normal. With that said, it’s been harder to scout these kids, so having a few extra lottery tickets could work out really well

 

[17futurecap]

I told u guys earlier this draft is absolutely garbage. No one is afraid to give up late firsts right now.

the top guys in the draft barely project as middle six middle pair dmen. The goalie is the best kid in the whole thing.

wish there were more exciting players on the move this deadline, nothing really too high profile.

 

[kovazub94]

I think this is a topic that should be discussed more, and maybe especially something DQ should become aware of and really consider his approach.

To coach in college required certain things, which naturally impact how the coaching should be done. The talent range is gigantic compared to the NHL, so someone that is talented will perform offensively no matter what. However, it must be very important to get everyone to buy into the system. Also, the kids coming in are more raw — and learning them to play defense is a big part of it.

This shows so so much in DQs coaching. I’ve never ever seen a team that do NOT have any kind of plan for how to ease a 1st overall pick into the NHL. Some kind of idea of which areas he can help you in and which area he needs support in.

You have to go back to the 90s to find a 1st overall pick with less PP time than Laf. And that kid was a 6’6 giraffe on ice that played center and needed to grow into his long legs and arms (Joe Thornton).

And Kakko’s usage his second year is even more troublesome. After this season, Kakko will be 20 years old. He will have been somewhat of a physically mature human person for say 6 years. During two of those years — ie 33% of his physically mature life — he will not have played ONE single hockey game in which he had a big role. He will not have played ONE single hockey game in which he run a PP.

I mean, we will never know how a kid would have developed if used differently, really never. We don’t have an alternative universe to consult. But having followed hockey for 30 years closely you start to notice trends. And one of them is that very young offensively talented kids often does not mature well at all if they play a long time, even multiple years, in a smaller role. Without any doubt, I totally believe that a big reason for why EDM completely butchered all kids they came close to for like a decade was because they got too many top picks and most of them had to take a back seat to others and developed really poorly.

Currently DQ and obviously Gorton&Crew think Kakko all of a sudden will blossom and be a star on the ice, and the same for Laf. We know that they have made unbeliveable mistakes in the past. Nobody is the reason for Lias busting but himself, but rushing him to NA, sending him back and forth between Sweden and NA between summer tournaments, Traverse etc, that was something I am willing to bet my right arm that they themselves wonder how they could do in hindsight. They seem equally clueless with the development of Laf and Kakko. And DQ seems totally zeroed in to do things his way, the “college way”. I am sure that is great in college, but there are big fundamental differences between the NCAA and the NHL.

Ola, it’s obvious that your idea of development is vastly different from the NYR front office. Unlike many other organizations that got their ##1/2 OA picks, the Rangers created a situation (and therefore have a luxury) where they don’t need to force / accelerate the development of their prized prospects and rather take a slow & steady approach where they don’t need to make prospects unlearn certain playing traits down the road.

So, I’m not sure what history you refer to where “smaller” roles early on stagnated development (please provide) but there plenty examples where prospects that where forced into bigger roles on struggling teams without a particularly good defensive structure and requirements, essentially busted after putting up more points in their first couple of seasons than Kakko or Lafreniere. Were they busts from the get go or due to being allowed to play the “junior way”? As you say we’d never know, but virtually every skilled player that Quinn has had a chance to put his hands on - has been successful or at least got better than before Quinn’s influence.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

I can see the big name, top 10 players being weaker than usual, but no one has a clue what's in the rest of the draft, they never do

 

[duhmetreE]

I told u guys earlier this draft is absolutely garbage. No one is afraid to give up late firsts right now.

the top guys in the draft barely project as middle six middle pair dmen. The goalie is the best kid in the whole thing.

that's not why they're giving up 1st imo... cap space is extremely valuable right now. The market is all types of messed up.

Late 1sts are more valuable, if anything, with the limited scouting window. There will be gems in the late 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

 

[Fitzy]

So, I’m not sure what history you refer to where “smaller” roles early on stagnated development (please provide).

I'll add that being stuck behind the West Coast Express for their first 4-5 seasons didn't do anything to prevent the Sedin twins from reaching their potential.

 

[kovazub94]

Responding to multiple Ola posts

I think the path to bigger roles for the kids are as follows...

1) Buchnevich traded, either for futures or in a package for a star center. Kakko steps up and takes his role, including potentially some PK time.

2) Kreider stays on PP1, but his role is reduced to a third line forward at even strength. Lafreniere steps up and plays with either Zibanejad or aforementioned star center, if that is the direction they go.

3) One of Kakko/Laf takes Strome's place on the right half wall on the power play.

Lafreniere-Zibanejad-Kakko
Panarin-Strome-Kravtsov
Kreider-Chytil-Gauthier
Barron-Rooney-Blackwell

At the end of the game down a goal, you have Panarin, Zibanejad, Kakko, Lafreniere, Kreider and Fox on the ice.

The path to the bigger role is simply becoming a better player. That’s it. Neither Buchnevich nor Strome got their top-6 roles or PP time due to whatever status as former top-5 or “skilled”, they earned it. Under Quinn (and with implied approval from Gorton and Davidson) Kakko and Lafreniere (and Chytil and Kravtsov) would have to do the same.

 

[kovazub94]

Another thing is, Kravy should definitely go back to the KHL next season. We have no room to develop and support him in the NHL, we haven’t even been able to afford Laf and Kakko any kind of development environment whatsoever.

Laf and Kakko will be in dire need of a reclamation effort next season after the trick we have pulled on them. We can’t muster to support Kravy at the same time.

One of the more ridiculous posts on the board and your number of such keeps increasing, and that’s a shame.

 

[Calad]

I'm not ready for the subsequent decade of arguments that would ensue from that selection.

Goalie is like 4-5 years away at least. No skaters in the teens are projected as any sort of impact player, centers Beniers Raty and Johnson will all likely be gone by the time we pick (~15)

 

[NYSPORTS]

Will teams be calling the Rangers about Buch, Strome and Smith. Maybe TDA?

 

[Fitzy]

Will teams be calling the Rangers about Buch, Strome and Smith. Maybe TDA?

According to Brooks in today's post there haven't been enticing offers for Buch or Strome.

Edge has said the team is open to moving PDG, Smith, DeAngelo, but other than that it's quiet. I'd put money on an ADA buyout at this point, and I think NYR self-rent Smith if they think they even have a small shot at the playoffs.

 

[kovazub94]

I'll add that being stuck behind the West Coast Express for their first 4-5 seasons didn't do anything to prevent the Sedin twins from reaching their potential.

Seguin has developed just fine after being essentially a third liner for Boston his whole rookie season

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Will teams be calling the Rangers about Buch, Strome and Smith. Maybe TDA?

Buch is RFA. Why are we trading him?

 

[Fitzy]

Buch is RFA. Why are we trading him?

I imagine part of it will depend on how the contract negotiations go this offseason, but Buch has been part of rumored trades for years now.

 

[SML2]

Leafs just gave up a first for Nick "7 goals this season and hasn't broken 20 in 4 years" Foligno. Based on that, if we did put Buchnevich up, the return should be about 4 1sts, 3 2nds, 2 3rds, 12% of gate revenue, 20% of concession money, and use of the private jet. Every year the madness happens. You either get nothing for a guy or they tell you to shut up and take their 1st rounder.

 

[Calad]

No interest/word on Colin Blackwell?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Gotta give credit to Jarmo for grabbing 2 firsts for guys that probably wouldn’t cost as much in normal times. Unfortunately for CBJ he chose to grab those firsts in a weaker draft.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Buch is RFA. Why are we trading him?

if the phone rings for Buch should Gordon ask “why are you calling?”

 

[Fitzy]

Weak drafts are never really as weak as they are made out to be. 2007 was supposed to be a weak draft, so was 2017. Still produced a bunch of really good NHL players.

 

[Vitto79]

I’m calling Ullmark to Leafs
Georgiev to Buffalo
Rangers 2nd and Tokarski for expansion exposure

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

They really need to beef up our C depth in the farm system

 

[Calad]

I’m calling Ullmark to Leafs
Georgiev to Buffalo
Rangers 2nd and Tokarski for expansion exposure

Rangers dont have a 2nd this draft
Rangers can expose Kinkaid even if Georgiev is moved, highly doubt he gets picked.

 

[Calad]

Weak drafts are never really as weak as they are made out to be. 2007 was supposed to be a weak draft, so was 2017. Still produced a bunch of really good NHL players.

Especially with the scouting situation around this draft year, I think those later 1sts are pretty valuable if you trust your scouting staff.