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Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXVIII: 3-2-1 TDL almost here!

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Synergy27 said:
Yeah, I mean, I agree. But what I am curious about, and what the organization will never be honest about, is if their approach to the 2019 draft would have been different had the results of the 2020 draft been known. I think we can all safely assume that their approach to the Kreider conundrum would have been different has they known Laf was in the pipeline, the same applies to the draft as well.

Drafting two potentially elite players in two consecutive drafts is great, but when those players play a position that is already an organizational strength, it introduces problems. Good to have problems, but problems nonetheless.

I don't know which of Kakko or Lafreniere the team views as more of a sure thing. But, with Panarin already in the fold, Buch having developed into a complete 1st liner, and Kravtsov looking legit, I really don't think they should rule out a potential trade for a cost controlled center. Kakko to Zegras might be a downgrade one for one (for example), but since there isn't enough ice time to go around on the wings anyway, it might not end up being a downgrade from a production standpoint even if both players hit their ceilings.

I am not advocating for this to happen, but I think it should be explored. Players on my short list include Zegras, Byfield, Newhook, and Cozens with necessary adds as you work your way down the list.

I personally trade either Laf or Kakko, whichever one the team thinks is worse, for Zegras straight up. Not sure if Anaheim does.
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I'm not letting them off the hook that easy. They Panarin, Buchnevich, Kakko and Kravtsov (who can play either wing) while deciding on Kreider. Wing its the easiest position to fill. There were some cap issues even before Covid. They had the chance to make the prudent choice for the future and decided to accelerate the time line.
 
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Machinehead said:
I get that they didn't want a team so bad that it was toxic, which I agree with.

Also, I get that they didn't know they'd have Lafreniere and they didn't know Fox would walk on water.

But Kreider and Trouba were just always too expensive to just ice competitive players. Strome and Fast do that better for a combined hit lower than Kreider's.

I won't kill them for Kreider because you could argue that Kreider before his injuries in 18-19 was a unique player that you likely wouldn't find or develop. Kreider of a couple of years ago is something this team really misses.

With Trouba, I never got it. He's a good player but he's just not special. They said "when a player like this becomes available..." A player like what?? He was always the second best RD on the Jets behind Byfuglien. Granted, defensemen don't necessarily have to add much. There's value in just eating minutes without being a tragedy. But he's not getting paid like it.
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I understand what you're getting at and mostly agree, but I can't help but wonder if Fox walks on water without Trouba sheltering him while he gets his feet wet as a rookie.

I think the whole Trouba thing has been worth for that alone, helping Fox develop into the player he's become. Trouba definitely had an impact there.
 
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EpicDing said:
I understand what you're getting at and mostly agree, but I can't help but wonder if Fox walks on water without Trouba sheltering him while he gets his feet wet as a rookie.

I think the whole Trouba thing has been worth for that alone, helping Fox develop into the player he's become. Trouba definitely had an impact there.
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I don't think it's a coincidence that of the very few games Fox has not been godly this year, a handful came when Trouba was out of the lineup.
 
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EpicDing said:
I understand what you're getting at and mostly agree, but I can't help but wonder if Fox walks on water without Trouba sheltering him while he gets his feet wet as a rookie.

I think the whole Trouba thing has been worth for that alone, helping Fox develop into the player he's become. Trouba definitely had an impact there.
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I think Trouba does a lot for this team that some fans can't or won't see. I also think he's a large part of the leadership on this team.

Too often people want to focus on what he isn't, rather than what he is.
 
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I'm lukewarm on Trouba.

I think he's not as bad as his biggest critics make him out to be, nor quite as good as others feel he's been this year.

He's still a guy who makes me alternate between cheers and curses, sometimes within the course of mere minutes.

I think he has an important role here, but not necessarily one that is quite as vaunted as it sometimes it portrayed.

I think he's better this year than last year, but I also think he's right back in a situation where he has a LD who compliments him well (and will keep getting better), and playing behind a legit top-notch RD.

So in that sense he's more or less what I thought he'd be - a second pairing defenseman who does his best when the right pieces are around him. How much is that worth and for how long? That's where it gets tricky.
 
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Edge said:
I'm lukewarm on Trouba.

I think he's not as bad as his biggest critics make him out to be, nor quite as good as others feel he's been this year.

He's still a guy who makes me alternate between cheers and curses, sometimes within the course of mere minutes.

I think he has an important role here, but not necessarily one that is quite as vaunted as it sometimes it portrayed.

I think he's better this year than last year, but I also think he's right back in a situation where he has a LD who compliments him well (and will keep getting better), and playing behind a legit top-notch RD.

So in that sense he's more or less what I thought he'd be - a second pairing defenseman who does his best when the right pieces are around him. How much is that worth and for how long? That's where it gets tricky.
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It really doesn’t matter what anyone feels about Trouba at this point, as his NMC kicked in and he won’t be going anywhere. But FWIW I tend to agree that he’s effective and part of what’s good about this team, just not enough to merit his percentage of our cap hit and the term we committed to with those trade protections.
 
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Edge said:
I'm lukewarm on Trouba.

I think he's not as bad as his biggest critics make him out to be, nor quite as good as others feel he's been this year.

He's still a guy who makes me alternate between cheers and curses, sometimes within the course of mere minutes.

I think he has an important role here, but not necessarily one that is quite as vaunted as it sometimes it portrayed.

I think he's better this year than last year, but I also think he's right back in a situation where he has a LD who compliments him well (and will keep getting better), and playing behind a legit top-notch RD.

So in that sense he's more or less what I thought he'd be - a second pairing defenseman who does his best when the right pieces are around him. How much is that worth and for how long? That's where it gets tricky.
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I think trading him to Detroit would make a ton of sense for everybody.
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway said:
I think Trouba does a lot for this team that some fans can't or won't see. I also think he's a large part of the leadership on this team.

Too often people want to focus on what he isn't, rather than what he is.
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Trouba and Kreider seem like they were signed long-term to be the stable veteran leadership for a young team. They are clearly going to underperform their cap hits in the later years of those contracts, but if you manage the cap well, you might be able to get away the grizzled veteran playing on the 3rd line/3rd pairing and providing leadership for a Cup run.
 
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Avery16 said:
It really doesn’t matter what anyone feels about Trouba at this point, as his NMC kicked in and he won’t be going anywhere. But FWIW I tend to agree that he’s effective and part of what’s good about this team, just not enough to merit his percentage of our cap hit and the term we committed to with those trade protections.
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Yeah I would agree. As much as I have sick fantasy of a blueline that features Miller, Jones, Robertson, Fox, Lundkvist and Schneider, and I'm transitioning to that defense in NHL 21, the reality is that Trouba isn't going anywhere.
 
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egelband said:
Weren’t we interested in Gusev at the time he went to the Devils? Pretty sure he was - at least - a fairly hot topic within this forum.
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not sure the rangers ever signed him but here he was a better value signing than panarin i think lol
 
Regarding the trade deadline, and in general, I think it’s safe to say the front office has a handle on the cap and who they can and can’t afford to keep. And they’ll operate following that understanding. Beyond that, it’s all guesswork for us.

And along those lines, I guess they’ll stand pat for the most part. And they should be able to extend both Strome and Buchnevich short term at around their current cap hit, if they wish.
My feeling is that the middle class of players will be the ones that feel the biggest effect of the NHL’s current economic woes. Sort of a reflection of the broader economy.
 
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Edge said:
Yeah I would agree. As much as I have sick fantasy of a blueline that features Miller, Jones, Robertson, Fox, Lundkvist and Schneider, and I'm transitioning to that defense in NHL 21, the reality is that Trouba isn't going anywhere.
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I'll say this ...........if there is another buyout agreement.............. Trouba moves to head of line
 
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GAGLine said:
No. Only ELCs and 1 year contracts for 35+ players or players coming off a significant injury can have performance bonuses.

Any contract can have signing bonuses, but that's just the part of their salary that is guaranteed (and makes contracts more buyout proof).
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Ok, thanks for verifying what @mike14 had said.
 
Edge said:
I'm lukewarm on Trouba.

I think he's not as bad as his biggest critics make him out to be, nor quite as good as others feel he's been this year.

He's still a guy who makes me alternate between cheers and curses, sometimes within the course of mere minutes.

I think he has an important role here, but not necessarily one that is quite as vaunted as it sometimes it portrayed.

I think he's better this year than last year, but I also think he's right back in a situation where he has a LD who compliments him well (and will keep getting better), and playing behind a legit top-notch RD.

So in that sense he's more or less what I thought he'd be - a second pairing defenseman who does his best when the right pieces are around him. How much is that worth and for how long? That's where it gets tricky.
Click to expand...

I've already had this conversation and was assured that he's a top pairing defensemen signed at market value.
 
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