Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXVIII: 3-2-1 TDL almost here!

[EdJovanovski]

Georgie in net tomm

says who?

 

[rangers1314]

says who?

DQ said so last night I believe.

 

[mas0764]

The Rangers are 7 points back and the team in front of them has two games in hand and, quite frankly, are the better team with, what, 17 games remaining? If there are assets that you're on the fence about selling then it's time to get off that fence.

The Rangers were guilty all night of forcing passes that weren't there and passing when they should've been shooting. The deserved what they got last night and with Boston winning and them losing, this playoff "chase" charade is over.

Perhaps if they lose tonite then it will really force them to sell on Monday.

 

[Ruggs225]

Perhaps if they lose tonite then it will really force them to sell on Monday.

sell what? We dont have much to sell.

the rebuild and stockpile of youth is done. Now we just need to grow and get experience.

 

[Ruggs225]

knowing how lazy Gorton is I don't expect a lot of moves, maximum 2 trades.

A hard working GM that would want the best for the team and try to maximize his assets and sell high and salvage something out of some poor performing players that aren't working out would make a bunch of moves.

keep playing ea NHL be a gm.

a good gm would understand things like team chemistry, player development and that players have actual feelings.

They also realize that u cant have a perpetual rebuild in trading every asset.

its ok to let some guys hit FA and get nothing. Because the value they bring to the team might be more than a draft pick.

Trading strome, buch or zbad would set this team back. Alot! And then really waste panarin, kreider and trouba contracts.

team should stand pat. Sell smith and a couple 4th liners if price is good. And let the kids play to get more experience. That is what the team really needs.

 

[mas0764]

sell what? We dont have much to sell.

the rebuild and stockpile of youth is done. Now we just need to grow and get experience.

We don't have much, but some. Decisions on Strome and Buch.

The raw stockpile is done but we are still searching for a young center and we have assets that we can identify will not be here in the near future.

Worth being proactive.

 

[GAGLine]

We don't have much, but some. Decisions on Strome and Buch.

The raw stockpile is done but we are still searching for a young center and we have assets that we can identify will not be here in the near future.

Worth being proactive.

I think the decisions on Strome and Buch are tied to other moves, and therefore won't be done at the deadline.

 

[LORDE]

its ok to let some guys hit FA and get nothing. Because the value they bring to the team might be more than a draft pick.

Trading strome, buch or zbad would set this team back. Alot! And then really waste panarin, kreider and trouba contracts.

team should stand pat. Sell smith and a couple 4th liners if price is good. And let the kids play to get more experience. That is what the team really needs.

They self rented Fasth last season for no reason at all and I hate to be the messenger on this but Trouba and Kreider don't need anyones help to "waste" their contracts.

Exactly like this team... one night it's heads with them, the next it's ass... I mean tails.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I don’t know if the Blues would do it but I’m really intrigued by a Buchnevich for R.Thomas swap...

 

[MysticLeviathan]

Rangers should be proactive about Strome and Buch. They’ve been great for us, but if you can find a deal of some kind with them, you have to take it. At the same time don’t force them into a bad deal. Absolutely shop them, but don’t make a dumb deal. Perhaps we don’t do anything until the offseason, but this season is very close to being dead.

 

[Daves a mess]

says who?

The coach

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Strome fits too well with Panarin. NYR would be wise not to disrupt that. And it's not like they are overflowing with centers. I expect he will be around for a while. Decision gets made next TDL when he is eligible for an extension. If he keeps playing like this he could be re-signed, he could be "self rented" if he is productive and wants a big payday, or he could be dealt next TDL if he is playing well and the NYR fall off the map next season.

Buchnevich I really don't know. I would bet he will be traded sometime between this TDL and 7/1/2022, most likely being this offseason. It would not be surprising at all if he is simply re-signed to a multi-year deal and kept. But there exists the possibility that he is signed to a new deal this offseason and dealt before any clause kicks in 7/1/2022 if Kakko and Kravtsov step up and force the issue. Not typically Gorton's M.O. but given the need to bridge a little longer to get comfortable with what they have in Kakko and Kravtsov, it wouldn't completely shock me.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Rangers should be proactive about Strome and Buch. They’ve been great for us, but if you can find a deal of some kind with them, you have to take it. At the same time don’t force them into a bad deal. Absolutely shop them, but don’t make a dumb deal. Perhaps we don’t do anything until the offseason, but this season is very close to being dead.

Strome and Buch to Calgary for Lindholm and Bennett+

Run ZBad, Lindholm, Bennett, Chytil down the middle for the next 2 years see what shakes out and re-evaluate.

With our wing depth, I think bringing in Lindholm and Bennett makes us a harder team to gain entry to our zone for different reasons.

 

[Rongomania]

Chytil/Laf/Kak combined 10pts in the last 5 games.

oh f*ck yeah. It's comin'.

 

[Off Sides]

From what I have read on their board, most Flyers fans seem to believe Laughton is a LW more so than a center in terms of what he is good at.

 

[Bluto]

I hope they trade Howden and Smith.
Last night showed me Howden has no business in the NHL.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I hope they trade Howden and Smith.
Last night showed me Howden has no business in the NHL.

Last year showed most of us that. Howden likely gets no takers. He’s either expansion fodder or waivers.

 

[Flan the incredible]

It is absolutely debatable, and no, even with Mackinnon, this team wasn't going to be a Cup contender. Experience matters. Playoff NHL is a different game than regular season. Zib, Kreider, and Panarin have some playoff experience. Strome had a few games, but they were 5 years ago. Buch had like 5 total games. And that's basically it among the forwards. It's even worse on defense. The only two D with playoff experience are Trouba and Smith. Trouba's playoff history isn't exactly stellar, and Smith is a train wreck in the best of times. I fully expect this team to wash out in the 1st or 2nd round a couple of years in a row, and then make a deeper run or two before being serious contenders for the Cup.



That's funny, because a non-partisan research organization says that everything you just wrote is incorrect:

6 facts about economic inequality in the U.S.).



You know the difference between a horrible contract and a mediocre one? A mediocre contract becomes horrible when you need to move better players that you'd rather keep because you have too much money tied up in players that aren't worth it. Staal/Girardi weren't awful contracts at the time. Most of these boards were quite happy with the numbers. Then we had to start making difficult choices and buying players out and carrying dead cap for years. I'd love it if Zib/Strome/Buch all took sweetheart deals to stay here. I don't really see all (or any, if I'm honest) of them doing that. Zib is coming off of three consecutive years of VASTLY out-playing his contract, and he's late 20s. Same with Strome, but over the last two years. Buch is 25, but he's been getting closer to a ppg and now he's a PK asset as well. All three of them know that they will get paid by someone. The only way they remain here long term, in my view, is if they take a discount to keep the band together or if the Rangers overpay. If the latter happens, we will see the impact over the years of those contracts when we can't supplement the team, or have to bridge a player we'd rather lock up long term, etc. You say we can just move Kreider/Trouba/Mika/Strome/Buch. I'm sure Buffalo thought the same thing when they signed Okposo and Skinner. I'm sure TB thought the same thing when they signed Tyler Johnson. We're already gambling with the Kreider/Trouba deals. It's entirely possible that, in just a couple of years, those guys are the most expensive 3rd line winger/bottom pair D in the league. Eventually ELC's end, and we need to make sure that there is enough cap to keep the kids.



I actually think the Detroit method is the IDEAL approach for a capped league. If there are prospects always in the pipeline, you always have a replacement for a guy that wants too much of your cap. That's basically what I'm looking to do with Strome, Zib, and Buch. I'd like to see them stay, but there's a number for both cap hit and contract length. If they go past those numbers and draw a line in the sand, I'd rather the team move them for futures than giving them an anchor contract.

We have lost 13 games by 1 goal. You are going to tell me with Mackinnon and Panarin not missing all those games we don't win half of those? Thats ignoring Shesty's injury and any other games we gave up empty netters in to make it 2 goal losses. Sorry I have to disagree with you and I am pretty certain if we had Mackinnon on an ELC like Laf would have this board would be saying cup or bust. I also don't think its close.

So you think income inequality is just comparing the richest of the rich and the poorest of the poor? Ignoring everyone in between? You do realize we have the richest people on the planet and Jeff Bezos is worth 200 billion dollars? If Bezos put his money in a savings account and earned the paltry 1% return the "income inequality" of low income households (under 35k) would still grow even if they got a 100% return or a 1000% return. That could quite possibly be the worst way to view economics for the poor I have ever seen. Its kind of commonsense the more money you have the greater return on investment dollar wise. I was referring to the census bureau data which compared over time showed low income households have decreased from 37.2% to 29.5%, middle class 53.8% to 41.3% and higher income from 9.0% to 29.5% from 1967 to 2017. So signifantly more people are doing better today then 50 years ago. No wonder New Yorkers are fleeing the city when people are looking at Jeff Bezos and trying to compare their returns to his haha.

Now back to hockey. First please go read the signing thread for Skinner....no one liked that deal. Next I think you are severely under rating the Covid flat cap. No one is going to have money to sign these players to the deals you are thinking about. Have you looked at Tampa for next year? Ouch. Seattle is going to have a ton of options from teams panning off contracts for assets. Most teams are cap strapped. These big deals aren't going to happen. I also would compare Staal and Girardi to Mika, Strome or Buch. All 3 are much better players and their games don't take the beatings as those two took.

Lastly the Wings were great and helped by drafting a bunch of superstars but as a whole they drafted a bunch of meh players. They were also helped by free agents Rafalski, Hossa etc. I still don't know if its possible to do in this NHL unless the superstars agree to take less.

 

[mas0764]

Rangers should be proactive about Strome and Buch. They’ve been great for us, but if you can find a deal of some kind with them, you have to take it. At the same time don’t force them into a bad deal. Absolutely shop them, but don’t make a dumb deal. Perhaps we don’t do anything until the offseason, but this season is very close to being dead.

Yeah, its no longer a situation where you want to move them for just a late first and Brendan Lemieux.

You only do it if a team feels they can win and are willing to part with Newhook or Lundell. Or Krebs+.

 

[mas0764]

Strome fits too well with Panarin. NYR would be wise not to disrupt that. And it's not like they are overflowing with centers.

Thats why the deal only makes sense if you are getting a center prospect back, not simply a late first.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

The cap game is about dumping players you’d overpay at the right time for younger players you underpay, which includes quality draft picks in their early years. You have 2 or 3 slots you can give serious money to. Often times one of them is the goalie and you have another couple big money spots. The rest is being able to trade an $8mm aav contract for a $5mm aav contract with comparable performance. We’re already failing that game with Kreider and Trouba. Now we’re going to play that game with Buch, Mika, and Strome. This isn’t easy. There’s plenty of justification to keep all 3. But the cap isn’t an easy game to play. I just pray that we make fewer wrong moves. With enough wrong moves, we may not have a chance to win at all.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Thats why the deal only makes sense if you are getting a center prospect back, not simply a late first.

It shouldn't be a draft pick, mid-late round picks for UFA rentals and extras are fine, but the "bigger" names, if they were to be moved, should be returning guys who can help now.

But there are plenty of other pieces I'd take back for Strome other than a center prospect. Panarin will survive without Strome.

 

[duhmetreE]

Why do you wanna trade a real terrific dman prospect for Ekholm who is gonna wanna a raise after next year and what is he 30?31? I think it would be a bad idea to pay another dman big money like we did with Trouba.
I mean if we were gonna be serious contenders next year maybe.

because he's a stopgap for the next year and a half. I expect to be contenders... imo the team has underachieved greatly, for the talent we have. Robertson then takes over eventually. Jones is small-ish. We can't take a d-corps of 'smurfs' into the playoffs. IMO JD has made that abundantly clear, Robertson as well as Schneider are most definitely a part of our future imo.

It's an 'aggressive' move to say the least

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

keep playing ea NHL be a gm.

a good gm would understand things like team chemistry, player development and that players have actual feelings.

They also realize that u cant have a perpetual rebuild in trading every asset.

its ok to let some guys hit FA and get nothing. Because the value they bring to the team might be more than a draft pick.

Trading strome, buch or zbad would set this team back. Alot! And then really waste panarin, kreider and trouba contracts.

team should stand pat. Sell smith and a couple 4th liners if price is good. And let the kids play to get more experience. That is what the team really needs.

Our forward pipeline is very barren after Barron and Berard

We got several forwards that could be decent 3rd/4th liners

And you have to keep cap space in mind, we can't afford to lose good players to UFA, selling high on some players is the way to go especially the likes of Strome.

 

[Ruggs225]

The cap game is about dumping players you’d overpay at the right time for younger players you underpay, which includes quality draft picks in their early years. You have 2 or 3 slots you can give serious money to. Often times one of them is the goalie and you have another couple big money spots. The rest is being able to trade an $8mm aav contract for a $5mm aav contract with comparable performance. We’re already failing that game with Kreider and Trouba. Now we’re going to play that game with Buch, Mika, and Strome. This isn’t easy. There’s plenty of justification to keep all 3. But the cap isn’t an easy game to play. I just pray that we make fewer wrong moves. With enough wrong moves, we may not have a chance to win at all.

I would argue all three of those players bring more value than Kreider. Those three player are key contributors. And i dont think any of them are going to bring back a young cost controlled center which is our only “need”

yes kreider was a mistake, but dont make others bc of it.
We wont have cap problems for the next 2-3 years.

especially if we dont dont something stupid like giving shesty more than $5-6mil.

It all depends on their ask, but I would keep them all as long as i could. I sign buch this offseason, and roll the dice with strome and if he walks so be it.

trading for futures is dumb at this point. This team is ready to compete as of next year. A late first that wont be ready for 2-3 years is not going to help the now, and might not even help the future.

fact is, that young cost controlled centers dont get traded that often. Especially ones who could possibly be better than zibby or strome.

and if u want a zegras or byfield then be ready to give up kakko or kravtsov bc that is what it would take. It wont be a buch and a first.