Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXVII: Lot’s of Fools in April

[LaffyTaffy]

What does this even mean? That he is really a solid player and is being blacklisted? Can't be that his play was lacking, can it? No. Believing it is a leaguewide conspiracy is much better.

4.5 is a palatable hit for a player that everyone knows is better than his current stats. Thats like saying Taylor Hall should pass through waivers because he’s currently the worst finisher in the league statistically. Yes Hall has been garbage but he’s still a valuable player, as is Gusev.

 

[kovazub94]

It’s not that hard. Look at guys like Rooney and Blackwell. They typically don’t play a lot of minutes but there are plenty of times where you notice them do something because they actually skate and make themselves noticeable.

I know this isn’t what people want to hear, myself included, but as of today, Laf is probably the least engaged and least noticeable player on the ice almost every game regardless of his usage. I don’t think it’ll be that way forever and I still expect him to be a great, great player eventually, but as of now that’s the truth. Many, many players a lot less talented than him have contributed to the game and made noticeable contributions with light minutes.

People are more comfortable blaming a coach than a 1OA player, and that’s understandable to an extent but the fact is he needs to play better and that’s his own problem.

I’ve seen mostly two options for “dealing” with this: Quinn is an idiot who’s ruining our most valuable prospect, or Lafreniere is a bust.

Allowing that Lafreniere is developing just fine and Quinn knows what he’s doing is a nonstarter.

 

[kovazub94]

Not soon enough.

I bet you’ll see it used none sarcastically.

 

[kovazub94]

I dont see any reason for Gusev to clear other than a league-wide gentlemans agreement. This league is just such a joke sometimes.

Gusev is Russian Spooner.

 

[RGY]

Kreider has been slowing down recently. I’d give his ES minutes to Lafreniere for a game to see if he’s better than the last time he played with Zibanejad and Buchnevich.

I am with this. And Kreider’s speed could be good for Chytil-Gauthier.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Kreider has been slowing down recently. I’d give his ES minutes to Lafreniere for a game to see if he’s better than the last time he played with Zibanejad and Buchnevich.

Interesting idea. But it still feels like they're rewarding Laff for being mediocre at best.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I worry significantly about Patrick’s injury/medical history. He is one bad hit away from being out for several months.

Yeah I’m not breaking the bank for him but in a “change of scenery” type trade or for Tony then yeah I’ll take a gamble on him.

 

[GAGLine]

4.5 is a palatable hit for a player that everyone knows is better than his current stats. Thats like saying Taylor Hall should pass through waivers because he’s currently the worst finisher in the league statistically. Yes Hall has been garbage but he’s still a valuable player, as is Gusev.

It doesn't matter if it's a palatable hit. It matters whether or not teams have that much cap space and are willing to use that cap space/spend that money to claim him.

Don't forget that to put him on their team, that means they are replacing someone else. And even the ones that have cap space and a desire to spend it, probably already have plans in the works to do just that. Many teams prefer to trade for players because that gives them a chance to move a contract, to offset the cap/money/roster spot. Claiming Gusev doesn't do that. It just means one extra body and very likely having to waive someone to make room for him.

 

[GAGLine]

This was posted in the power rankings on the Athletic, but I thought it was funny, so reposting here:



BTW, Rangers were ranked 15th and Philly 22nd.

 

[Savant]

Interesting idea. But it still feels like they're rewarding Laff for being mediocre at best.

That line of thinking is my problem with Quinn’s line of thinking. Lafreniere isn’t a 17 year old incoming NCAA freshmen, despite that being how Quinn operates. He needs to develop these players by giving them better line mates and putting them in position to succeed. As I said at the start of the season, having a bunch of kids who are still figuring their own games out is a mistake and bad for development. He doesn’t get minutes because he hasn’t earned them, but is still in a position where he is more likely to make mistakes. It’s kind of ridiculous.

 

[Daves a mess]

On Zac Jones:

Zac is soooo underrated around here.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

That line of thinking is my problem with Quinn’s line of thinking. Lafreniere isn’t a 17 year old incoming NCAA freshmen, despite that being how Quinn operates. He needs to develop these players by giving them better line mates and putting them in position to succeed. As I said at the start of the season, having a bunch of kids who are still figuring their own games out is a mistake and bad for development. He doesn’t get minutes because he hasn’t earned them, but is still in a position where he is more likely to make mistakes. It’s kind of ridiculous.

But he's been given him better line mates, Quinn has stuck with him when he probably should have sat him. How much more of a leash should he get before he starts shouldering some of the blame? Laff can make all the mistakes he wants just look engaged when you do it. I'd rather he make a mistake trying to force something in the offensive zone rather than being lazy and not getting the puck deep at the blue line or giving a half assed attempt at forechecking.

If this kid is as good as we think he is, he should have no problem making things happen on a line with Chytil and Gauthier. He's not even getting the other teams toughest matchup. Personally, I'm not worried about Laff busting or not becoming a great player. I think he's going to be fine. It's frustrating he's not putting more points, sooner, but whatever. I think some adversity will be good for him in the long run.

 

[Daves a mess]

I hate doing the "this guy sucks" (ok I did it a lot for Marc Staal) last year, but the Jacob Trouba we got and the Jacob Trouba I watched with my own eyes in Winnipeg is not the same player that signed that anchor of a contract to be a Ranger.

Doesn't look remotely to me like a "will" thing. It like he's regressed as a hockey player in all things that really matter.

Hes a #4 defenseman in this league, and I'm ok with that. Until the cap hit and term punches me square in the nose and makes me bleed with regret.

 

[kovazub94]

Interesting idea. But it still feels like they're rewarding Laff for being mediocre at best.

I look at it this way - Chytil needs more help at the moment and Kreider could provide it in the very similar way that Chytil - Gauthier duo has been working but lacking a good third wheel there.

On the other hand Kreider has been passengering recently on the top line so maybe Lafreniere could give something different on there.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I look at it this way - Chytil needs more help at the moment and Kreider could provide it in the very similar way that Chytil - Gauthier due has been working but lacking a good third wheel there.

On the other hand Kreider has been passengering recently on the top line so maybe Lafreniere could give something different on there.

Makes sense. Kreider and Chytil did play good together last year I think. Those two with Guathier could be fun - big, fast, strong.

 

[GAGLine]

I hate doing the "this guy sucks" (ok I did it a lot for Marc Staal) last year, but the Jacob Trouba we got and the Jacob Trouba I watched with my own eyes in Winnipeg is not the same player that signed that anchor of a contract to be a Ranger.

Doesn't look remotely to me like a "will" thing. It like he's regressed as a hockey player in all things that really matter.

Hes a #4 defenseman in this league, and I'm ok with that. Until the cap hit and term punches me square in the nose and makes me bleed with regret.

Other than the gaffe in OT last night, he has been good IMO. Maybe not 8 mil good, but good enough. He'll probably never justify that contract unless he starts getting serious PP time, but that isn't going to happen as long as Fox is here.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Wondering if Blackwell returns a 1st?

that would an overpayment. i doubt any GM is that dumb

 

[Savant]

But he's been given him better line mates, Quinn has stuck with him when he probably should have sat him. How much more of a leash should he get before he starts shouldering some of the blame? Laff can make all the mistakes he wants just look engaged when you do it. I'd rather he make a mistake trying to force something in the offensive zone rather than being lazy and not getting the puck deep at the blue line or giving a half assed attempt at forechecking.

If this kid is as good as we think he is, he should have no problem making things happen on a line with Chytil and Gauthier. He's not even getting the other teams toughest matchup. Personally, I'm not worried about Laff busting or not becoming a great player. I think he's going to be fine. It's frustrating he's not putting more points, sooner, but whatever. I think some adversity will be good for him in the long run.

I don’t agree with this.

you are saying that he is trying to force things but also saying that he needs to stand out to deserve to move up. Do you see the disconnect there? Sure he could be better, but he isn’t in a position to succeed.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I don’t agree with this.

you are saying that he is trying to force things but also saying that he needs to stand out to deserve to move up. Do you see the disconnect there? Sure he could be better, but he isn’t in a position to succeed.

He was put with Zib and then Strome and then Zib again and now he's with Chytil. He's been put in a position to succeed all season. He hasn't been sat, which he probably should, and the coach puts him out there every night. From what I see, he's not forceful or engaged enough and it doesn't look like he wants the puck as badly as Kakko. Too many soft, careless plays. I have all the faith in the world that this will all be corrected in the not too distant future but you don't need to play with all-stars to get noticed on the ice. Guys get moved up in the lineup during a game all the time in the league. Force the coach to play you more and 90% of the time the coach will play you more.

Currently he's the third LW on the depth chart, if we're being honest, that may be a stretch. My point is, if he can't stand out playing against the other teams bottom 6 , with someone like Chytil, the answer isn't to move him up to play against other team's top lines.

 

[True Blue]

4.5 is a palatable hit for a player that everyone knows is better than his current stats. Thats like saying Taylor Hall should pass through waivers because he’s currently the worst finisher in the league statistically. Yes Hall has been garbage but he’s still a valuable player, as is Gusev.

You’re right. It’s not his piss poor play. It’s a conspiracy

 

[Savant]

He was put with Zib and then Strome and then Zib again and now he's with Chytil. He's been put in a position to succeed all season. He hasn't been sat, which he probably should, and the coach puts him out there every night. From what I see, he's not forceful or engaged enough and it doesn't look like he wants the puck as badly as Kakko. Too many soft, careless plays. I have all the faith in the world that this will all be corrected in the not too distant future but you don't need to play with all-stars to get noticed on the ice. Guys get moved up in the lineup during a game all the time in the league. Force the coach to play you more and 90% of the time the coach will play you more.

Currently he's the third LW on the depth chart, if we're being honest, that may be a stretch. My point is, if he can't stand out playing against the other teams bottom 6 , with someone like Chytil, the answer isn't to move him up to play against other team's top lines.

Chytil is still figuring himself out too. It’s a mistake to have them together. Kreider should be with Chytil and Lafreniere should be with Zibanejad.

Lafreniere is getting the Kakko treatment from last season and like last season, the Rangers would rather lean on Zibanejad and Panarin.

I see Lafreniere is playing like he is afraid to make mistakes because he knows he will be buried. The Rangers have enough depth to make sure that the kids are paired with some vets that can help them out, but instead they have Lafreniere and Chytil playing together with because they have no better idea on where to put them. Kakko has clearly benefitted from playing with better line mates this season.

 

[Tob]

Chytil is still figuring himself out too. It’s a mistake to have them together. Kreider should be with Chytil and Lafreniere should be with Zibanejad.

Lafreniere is getting the Kakko treatment from last season and like last season, the Rangers would rather lean on Zibanejad and Panarin.

I see Lafreniere is playing like he is afraid to make mistakes because he knows he will be buried. The Rangers have enough depth to make sure that the kids are paired with some vets that can help them out, but instead they have Lafreniere and Chytil playing together with because they have no better idea on where to put them. Kakko has clearly benefitted from playing with better line mates this season.

and Kakko had to unseat Blackwell on that Panarin-Strome line first. Lafreniere won't get any help from the coaching staff. He's going to have to figure it all out on his own on 8 minutes a night with Fil and Julien.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Chytil is still figuring himself out too. It’s a mistake to have them together. Kreider should be with Chytil and Lafreniere should be with Zibanejad.

Lafreniere is getting the Kakko treatment from last season and like last season, the Rangers would rather lean on Zibanejad and Panarin.

I see Lafreniere is playing like he is afraid to make mistakes because he knows he will be buried. The Rangers have enough depth to make sure that the kids are paired with some vets that can help them out, but instead they have Lafreniere and Chytil playing together with because they have no better idea on where to put them. Kakko has clearly benefitted from playing with better line mates this season.

I honestly don't think like he's afraid to make a mistake, that's a narrative that's been pushed here with no basis in reality. How can a kid be afraid of making a mistake if he's never been benched for it? To me, it's more about him having to learn he can't get away with the moves he made in the Q at this level. The ironic thing is, you can still make yourself visible in hockey even if the puck isn't going into the net. It's not like being a kicker in the NFL who keeps missing, or a hitter in baseball going through a slump or something like that. All he needs to do is skate harder and play with a little more purpose. Like Kakko this year, even when he wasn't scoring, you still noticed his effort. I don't notice anything with Laff right now. There's no urgency to his game. You keep saying they have no idea where to put him, they've tried him everywhere. He's played on every line with every center. The next move is the press box. And Kakko's play is what got him playing with those better players. It's not like they put a struggling kid on a line with Panarin and Strome and he suddenly took off.

 

[kovazub94]

Other than the gaffe in OT last night, he has been good IMO. Maybe not 8 mil good, but good enough. He'll probably never justify that contract unless he starts getting serious PP time, but that isn't going to happen as long as Fox is here.

If he continues (years down the line too) to provide a stabilizing influence on ever improving Miller then this how you justify extra $$.

 

[Synergy27]

I hate doing the "this guy sucks" (ok I did it a lot for Marc Staal) last year, but the Jacob Trouba we got and the Jacob Trouba I watched with my own eyes in Winnipeg is not the same player that signed that anchor of a contract to be a Ranger.

Doesn't look remotely to me like a "will" thing. It like he's regressed as a hockey player in all things that really matter.

Hes a #4 defenseman in this league, and I'm ok with that. Until the cap hit and term punches me square in the nose and makes me bleed with regret.

Like it or not, he’s unfortunately the linchpin in this team’s long term plan because of his contract.

I think he sucks more often than not, but I acknowledge the need for a player of his type on the team. Fox should be getting his money, and Trouba should be paid about half of his cap hit. Because that’s not the case, losses will have to be sustained elsewhere in the lineup. Here’s looking at you Buch - a player I have zero interest in trading myself.

I’d be actively shopping him and looking for a much cheaper, big, rugged, stay at home type to play with Key. That could theoretically make enough money available to pay three lines worth of good forwards.