Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXVII: Lot’s of Fools in April

[True Blue]

Now I'm going to sit here and await @True Blue's wrath for suggesting a player change positions.

Give it a bit of time. I need to warm up to a good one.

 

[Kodiak]

You can't possibly afford both Zibanejad and Eichel. Eichel is a wonderful player, but start factoring in 10 cost in assets to acquire him 2) cost in dollars of fitting him in under the cap & 3) cost to acquire the assets to build around him (you would have just traded some everyday assets to get him) and plug the holes created by the move, the return profile starts to look not quite as rosy. What the landscape looks like right after you hit that trade button, might not have so many greener pastures.

The other issue with Eichel is that by trading for him, you have now given yourself 4 years to win the Cup. When his contract is up, he will be 30. And the same discussions about committing long term to a 30 year old will begin.

We're having the discussion about resigning a 29 year old center next year, and it is causing some consternation because most of our prime assets are 23 and younger. When Eichel's contract is up, these guys will be in their prime years. At that point, a decision would have to be made about whether Eichel is too expensive, or whether to move things around to try to keep the core together for a few more years. There will be more information to make that decision because by then, we aren't banking on the potential of guys like Lafreniere and Kakko. They will be known quantities.

My concern with Zibanejad is if he hits his decline with a large cap hit as the younger guys are starting to push us to the next level.

 

[jay from jersey]

I am curious at how many more points people think Eichel will score over Strome. Strome would be on pace for 77 points over 82 games. Now consider the cost to get him plus the difference in salary.

Is it worth the extra X number of points?

That’s that problem. Would panarin or LaF make Eichel a 100 pt player? We can’t know for sure until it’s tried. He could max out at a 75-85 top line center what he is know. Depending on the price I would take the risk

 

[Kodiak]

If someone asked me to design my own "ideal" scenario, it would include some of these elements:

• Keep the young talent we have, for now.
• Continue to see how certain guys come along, particularly as they turn pro, and shore up holes by making more informed decisions than guessing and hoping.
• Zibanejad recovers and signs a 6 year, $8.5 million deal.
• If we have to move Buch, focus on acquiring a young-ish center with top six upside as part of the deal.
• Start focusing on depth-pieces. Some of that includes the upcoming draft, and some of it includes finding value free agents like Rooney or Blackwell for roles where we don't need to have to someone locked up on a five year deal.

That's the contract that gives me pause. Having a 34-35 year old Zibanejad at a heavy cap hit around the time our young guys are coming off of their bridge deals.

 

[CTRanger]

Think the Thatcher Demko 5x5 contract that he just signed is probably a pretty good comparable for Shesterkin. Both from the ‘14 draft class. Demko was a 2nd rd pick. He’s played twice as many games as Shesterkin and his numbers overall aren’t quite as good, but he’s been good for a bad Vancouver team this year.

 

[True Blue]

My concern with Zibanejad is if he hits his decline with a large cap hit as the younger guys are starting to push us to the next level.

You are not wrong to have this concern. That is why any commitment to ZBad has to come on a team friendlyish type of contract. $8 & under.

The other thing, and I know full well that this is not such a popular concept, is that as Edge and others have correctly pointed out, the path that this team is on will have the wings as the dominant players, the defense as one of the top ones with at least one elite player and great in net. The centers at that point, just need to be able to blend in. They need not be play drivers or elite. In other words, to one degree or another, they need to be Stromes and blend. In this scenario, no trading assets for Eichel, no trading Buchnevich and yes to trading ZBad. Sign Strome to a 3 year extension and let him continue to play with Panarin. Trade ZBad and a young center hast to be part of the deal that can step in and play 3C. And for better or worse, sink or swim with Chytil as 2C.

 

[jay from jersey]

He's not good enough defensively to lead the team as Zibanejad does. He's somewhere in between Chytil and Strome. We have major matchup issues on this team. We use our top6 for all scenarios. Swapping Zibs and Eichel, we become a weaker team/

Eichel is a pretty good defender. The problem is he’s unmotivated where he is now. I don’t the Zibby does anything far superior to Eichel besides slapped when it’s on, whereas Eichel can do some things better then Zibby when he’s at the top of his game. Then you add the youth component in. Depending on price it’s no contest for me. Barkov is the only guy that would fit better but panthers have gotten their act together

 

[Mac n Gs]

The writing was on the wall for Lemieux when we drafted Laf and re-signed Kreider. There just wasn’t the room for him in the lineup in a bigger role unless he took a big step forward offensively or re-worked his game defensively.

I liked the edge he provided last season, but he regressed big time this season and wasn’t filling any significant role on the team. We’re getting more versatility throughout the lineup out of Blackwell and Rooney for same total cost.

 

[rangers1314]

The writing was on the wall for Lemieux when we drafted Laf and re-signed Kreider. There just wasn’t the room for him in the lineup in a bigger role unless he took a big step forward offensively or re-worked his game defensively.

I liked the edge he provided last season, but he regressed big time this season and wasn’t filling any significant role on the team. We’re getting more versatility throughout the lineup out of Blackwell and Rooney for same total cost.

Had he done those things, he wouldn't have needed to ask for a trade. Maybe someone would have ponied up to come grab him. But alas....

 

[jay from jersey]

The cost is the key. I wouldn't want to see Kakko or Lafreniere in the deal. I'd try to hold Chytil out of it if possible as that opens a hole at C. If there is a deal to be had that centers around guys like Buchnevich, Kravtsov, and Lundkvist, then we have the depth to make that kind of deal without opening a big hole in the lineup. But what is an acceptable deal for Buffalo's front office? It depends on how much of an issue Eichel is and how many other teams are willing to part with assets and take on the cap hit.

The best course of action is to let his NMC kick in and him be ultra miserable. It’s the only way your getting him at a semi discount

 

[jay from jersey]

You can't possibly afford both Zibanejad and Eichel. Eichel is a wonderful player, but start factoring in 10 cost in assets to acquire him 2) cost in dollars of fitting him in under the cap & 3) cost to acquire the assets to build around him (you would have just traded some everyday assets to get him) and plug the holes created by the move, the return profile starts to look not quite as rosy. What the landscape looks like right after you hit that trade button, might not have so many greener pastures.

The other issue with Eichel is that by trading for him, you have now given yourself 4 years to win the Cup. When his contract is up, he will be 30. And the same discussions about committing long term to a 30 year old will begin.

Yes but those 4 years your in the sweet spot. Goaltender in prime, many young guns in prime or close to it, bridge contracts allowing you to be flexible until trouba and kreider can be dealt. If the cost out weighs the benefit, don’t do it. But I think a lot of people on here are severely underrating Eichel and what he can do here. Especially if he’s got a chip on his shoulder and wants to win in the real season, which he hasn’t even got a taste of yet.
You have your heavy hitters Eichel. Panarin, LaF kakko Fox shesty and by then guys like Cuylle, Berard,Barron etc should be cheap plugs in the bottom 6

 

[jay from jersey]

I just can't really see a scenario where the Rangers are going to have $18.5 million tied up in two centers, another $17 million tied up in two left wings, another $12-$14 million in two RDs, and then still have the cap space to pay Lafreniere, Kakko, Miller, Shesterkin, etc.

I think there's a lot of optimism for discounts and getting out of deals to make that scenario work.

The odds of it happening are slim to none.

Me either, but being honest I don’t see a lot of these guys on this team in the next 2-3 years

 

[Kodiak]

The best course of action is to let his NMC kick in and him be ultra miserable. It’s the only way your getting him at a semi discount

That's certainly something that has helped us in other deals, but that takes another year to kick in, so by that time we would need to have already made a decision on Zibanejad and Strome.

 

[Avery16]

I agree.

I’m not saying he had quite the upside of Marchand but I think he had the talent to really hit a higher level if he was more disciplined on and off the ice. I say that as someone who loved him on this team.

I should have been more specific with my disagreement. I always viewed Sean's antics as a different vein from Marchands. Marchand is a dirty player and does things without regard to the opposing player's safety. I don't recall seeing a clip of Sean headshotting, submarining, spearing, licking or any of the other things Brad has done. I totally agree that Sean had a lot of talent and could have been an impact player with the right coach.

 

[leetch99]

Right now, I feel like our team is shaping up to have elite wings, a dangerous defense, and great goaltending. That means we probably won't have elite centers up and down the lineup.

But, if everything more or less comes together, we might not need to.

If we can have centers who can play their roles on their respective lines, and do it well (but maybe not elite per se), I think we'll be in business.

So I'm hesitant to make too sharp of a turn when, as you said, for better or worse, we're going down a clear path.

That sounds about perfect . See how it goes for one more season at least before we make a panic move . This club is playoffs all the way next year without all the turbulence we experienced this season....and probably even with Quinn there . Maybe toy with adding a hard nosed C like Lowry and possibly one more PITA C type for the 4th line and figure out whether you keep Chytil or Strome for a few more years . See how that goes .

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

So just to be clear, when you say "contention" what you mean is being a clear Cup contender? Want to make sure that I am not misconstruing anything that you are saying.

If that is the case, I am not sure that I am in agreement. The roster is still flawed. To expect to be thought of as a legit Cup contender in two years, is a bit ambitions. At least from my perch. I certainly hope that you are right, but juts do not see that. I see that more in 3 years or so. There still roster construction and experience that is needed.

I'm hopeful that by the season after next they'll be one of the top teams in the east. Their top 9 should be super solidified by then, goaltending will be locked in, and it would also mark Miller's third pro year, Lindgren and Fox's 4th.

 

[Fitzy]

That's the contract that gives me pause. Having a 34-35 year old Zibanejad at a heavy cap hit around the time our young guys are coming off of their bridge deals.

But on the other hand you have to think there will be at least one compliance buyout option during this three year flat cap situation

 

[True Blue]

Yes but those 4 years your in the sweet spot. Goaltender in prime, many young guns in prime or close to it, bridge contracts allowing you to be flexible until trouba and kreider can be dealt. If the cost out weighs the benefit, don’t do it. But I think a lot of people on here are severely underrating Eichel and what he can do here. Especially if he’s got a chip on his shoulder and wants to win in the real season, which he hasn’t even got a taste of yet.
You have your heavy hitters Eichel. Panarin, LaF kakko Fox shesty and by then guys like Cuylle, Berard,Barron etc should be cheap plugs in the bottom 6

You will not be in your sweet spot for all 4 years. That is my point. Maybe two of them.

Eichel is a wonderful player. And with tunnel vision, of course he should be pursued. But when you start to consider all the costs, what the landscape is right after the trade does not appear to have such firm footing.

 

[True Blue]

I'm hopeful that by the season after next they'll be one of the top teams in the east. Their top 9 should be super solidified by then, goaltending will be locked in, and it would also mark Miller's third pro year, Lindgren and Fox's 4th.

I am hopeful as well. Just not as optimistic as you.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I am hopeful as well. Just not as optimistic as you.

Gotta figure some of the dominant teams in the east now will be on the decline in a few years as well.

 

[Tob]

0 college FAs signed since Quinn tenure. Gorton asleep at the wheel this week. Shame.

 

[True Blue]

Gotta figure some of the dominant teams in the east now will be on the decline in a few years as well.

Yes, but teams like the 'Sens will be rising. I also think that the Devils will get better and that the Flyers are better than the dumpster fire they are right now. Isles are not going away either.

 

[Embryo]

The NY Giants Discord channel turned itself entirely into a Dallas Cowboys channel for April Fools, they got me, I was confused as hell at first.

 

[True Blue]

0 college FAs signed since Quinn tenure. Gorton asleep at the wheel this week. Shame.

That desperate to complain about something regarding management or coaching, are you?

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Yes, but teams like the 'Sens will be rising. I also think that the Devils will get better and that the Flyers are better than the dumpster fire they are right now. Isles are not going away either.

All true.