Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXVI: Spring into action (GMJG outta hibernation?)

[Vitto79]

I would dump Smith now if a team is interested in him and try to get Stralman at 50% retained. It would be an upgrade and a good stopgap for Lundkvist not to be rushed or to ease in with Stralman becoming a 7th D at some point next year.

not terrible but the cap is likely still tight after resigning Buch, Chytil, Lindgren

I’d just keep Bitetto and other cheap vets as the spares. If Miller can jump right in then Lundkvist likely can too. He’s in a men’s league

 

[pld459666]

So originally it was Quinn instructed him to do it and it was Quinn's decision, to now this statement which eludes to knoblauch being able to do it because Quinn was okay with it happening. Just stop. If igor were to shit the bed tomorrow knoblauch is the one deciding if and when to pull him, it's not like there is some random fomular of antalytics Quinn dictated to knoblauch in some pregame meeting. Quinn advises him how he wants it handled but that's it. Quinn isn't there to make the live in game decisions. If Quinn was calling the shots from home during the games then the towel boy could be wearing a suit on the bench as the surrogate rather than the org taking the head coach out of hartford just to act entirely on orders. They put a qualified guy in the position to run the team/bench in game because that person IS making decisions.

Think what you want.

Whats happening on the ice is not because of Knoblauch.

The system they are playing and the results they are seeing is all due to Quinn.

This team that we are seeing now is very similar to the team we saw down the stretch last year before Covid.

The biggest difference is we are better fundamentally defensively because of Jacques Martin.

Mika is playing like God
Panarin is doing Panarin like things which is awesome
Fox is actually better than last year
Buch is better
Strome has been better

These are the things that are having the impact on outcomes.

Not a placeholder behind the bench

 

[Off Sides]

They have 2 years of freedom. If he demands a trade when his NMC kicks in, and tells Sabres he’ll only play for 2-3 teams they will get a bunch of spare parts and a 1st. No big impact prospects. I really don’t see that franchise in the playoffs in 2 years or less IMO

Eichel: Demands a trade publicly.

Buffalo: Okay we traded you.

Eichel: Well I asked out, but I'm not going there

Buffalo: We traded him, but he is blocking the trade

Public opinion: ?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The one thing ill say about the whole Quinn/Knoblach thing is that if there is a reason to prefer Knoblach than Quinn its not in game preparedness or systems or even lineups because thats still Quinn's contribution. To me if there is some bit of truth to this being because of Knoblach and his staff, looking at it in a bubble it might be that there might have been too much pressure from Quinn and that Knoblach and staff took that pressure off Zib and company and just told them to play. If that's the case I hope Quinn learns from this and does the same thing when he comes back. If he doesn't and Zib falls off a cliff again that could be the nail in his coffin.

 

[Cmox]

Yea I did find that a bit odd. I thought his commentary about what the NYR actually might offer up for Eichel to be a bit insightful.

Custance had an article this weekend where he asked "NHL execs" their thoughts on fan trade proposals.

Eichel offers:

1. COL for Byram, Newhook, 2022 2nd, 2021 1st. NHL exc: Sabres say no...picks late in the round and no guarantee of getting a star back.
2. CBJ for Seth Jones and Bemstrom. NHL exec: Sabres say no...Jones doesn't have term.
3. NYR for Buchnevich, Strome, Lundqvist, Schneider, 2021 1st. NHL exec: Sabres say no...none of the NYR untouchables are part of the deal (lists as Fox, Shesty, and Panarin (?)). "If you don't want to give up those guys why should Buffalo give up Eichel."
4. MIN for Fiala, Dumba, 1st round pick. NHL exec: Sabres say no...no first line player coming back.
5. LAK for Byfield, Turcotte, Kempe, 2022 1st, 2023 1st, 2022 2nd. NHL exec: "That's what Buffalo would be saying yes to." He does admit "I think the Kings would say no. It's too much for the Kings."

Some pretty hot takes in there.

1. I don't understand how the NYR not being willing to part with their best assets is relevant if their offer still beats other teams and Buffalo feels they have to move Eichel (not saying it does in this scenario just a general point)? Only in the muddled incoherent world of NHL GMs does that make sense.
2. Yea no shit that LA trade would get it done. I would be completely stunned if that was offered. That is basically their rebuild. If that is the type of value it would take it really means that Eichel is not getting traded. Based on the situation as it presently stands.
   
3. Pretty sure this exec works in the Sabres front office?

Two comments. Do these “fans” actually watch and follow hockey? Does this exec actually watch and follow hockey? This has to be one of those get the word out articles. That Rangers offer is a huge overpayment. f*** that.

 

[Cmox]

The one thing ill say about the whole Quinn/Knoblach thing is that if there is a reason to prefer Knoblach than Quinn its not in game preparedness or systems or even lineups because thats still Quinn's contribution. To me if there is some bit of truth to this being because of Knoblach and his staff, looking at it in a bubble it might be that there might have been too much pressure from Quinn and that Knoblach and staff took that pressure off Zib and company and just told them to play. If that's the case I hope Quinn learns from this and does the same thing when he comes back. If he doesn't and Zib falls off a cliff again that could be the nail in his coffin.

When they asked Zib the difference between the two at first he said there was not much of a difference but then he pointed out the difference in personality. So I’m assuming one is a little easier to work for?

 

[Off Sides]

Eichel wanted to be there initially, he signed the 8 year deal. Things change. Still doesn't change the fact that high profile players who publicly want out (not that its happened yet but its coming) are never not traded eventually. Rarely, if ever, do they convince that player to stay.

He signed the contract, they do not need to convince him to stay. He has no where else to go if they do not trade him other than the KHL, he's not giving up the 50M left on his contract.

What's the worst that happens if they keep him, he mopes for 5 years, complains constantly and ruins his own career, while Buffalo still stays in the basement where they already are? Does Buffalo really hurt their image if they decided to keep him? If Eichel mopes he certainly is going to hurt his own career and any trade value that may get him out of there.

What's the best that happens if they trade him for a bunch of non elite prospects and picks? They remain in the basement and Dahlin also asks out asap? All the stuff they traded Eichel for either busts or also wants out asap if they do develop? Does Buffalo really improve at all if they trade Eichel for that sort of stuff?

Again not saying Buffalo will not do the wrong thing here, between their market and ownership self inflicting more and more pain on the organization they are in a tough spot. Just saying if I were Buffalo I'm only trading Eichel if I'm getting back assets which he will not return, in which case I'm just keeping him and telling him so, from there he can choose how his next 5 years go.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Buffalo is going to trade Eichel before his NMC kicks in for sure. Right now any team that’s willing to pony up can have him

He clearly wants to leave but isn’t making a big stink about it. The moment he makes a big stink about it and actively makes it difficult for them, Buffalo will be more motivated to move him.

They’re not gonna want him around their team in that case.

Harden just did this in the NBA. That’s how this stuff happens now a days

 

[kovazub94]

The one thing ill say about the whole Quinn/Knoblach thing is that if there is a reason to prefer Knoblach than Quinn its not in game preparedness or systems or even lineups because thats still Quinn's contribution. To me if there is some bit of truth to this being because of Knoblach and his staff, looking at it in a bubble it might be that there might have been too much pressure from Quinn and that Knoblach and staff took that pressure off Zib and company and just told them to play. If that's the case I hope Quinn learns from this and does the same thing when he comes back. If he doesn't and Zib falls off a cliff again that could be the nail in his coffin.

Once again, it’s been asked who’s playing differently since Quinn’s been out with Covid? If someone thinks that Zibanejad lost Quinn shackles rather than finally recovering from post-Covid complications then it doesn’t make sense that Zibanejad was playing at this level last year.

Then who else among players had the same “reaction”?

 

[Off Sides]

Buffalo is going to trade Eichel before his NMC kicks in for sure. Right now any team that’s willing to pony up can have him

He clearly wants to leave but isn’t making a big stink about it. The moment he makes a big stink about it and actively makes it difficult for them, Buffalo will be more motivated to move him.

They’re not gonna want him around their team in that case.

Harden just did this in the NBA. That’s how this stuff happens now a days

But why does Buffalo care if he asks out, even publicly?

Are they going to lose more often by keeping him as an unhappy player?

It's going to tarnish their image?

The rest of the team will play uninspired hockey by having him there?

 

[pld459666]

Eichel: Demands a trade publicly.

Buffalo: Okay we traded you.

Eichel: Well I asked out, but I'm not going there

Buffalo: We traded him, but he is blocking the trade

Public opinion: ?

Thats why he's not asking g for a trade before his NTC kicks in

 

[Off Sides]

Thats why he's not asking g for a trade before his NTC kicks in

Even if he does after, why does Buffalo care, or how does the return from a trade now or even then really help them?

Perhaps a meme can explain it better

 

[Doctyl]

When they asked Zib the difference between the two at first he said there was not much of a difference but then he pointed out the difference in personality. So I’m assuming one is a little easier to work for?

I feel like it has to be that. Quinn’s system hasn’t been as abysmal as AVs and Martin has helped the defense come along. We are 15th in the league in xGF% playing in by far the toughest division. We shouldn’t have had as much trouble scoring early on and then when Shesty went down it was hard to find solid goaltending some games.

I feel like Quinn is over coaching the team. The in game management isn’t good, constant line juggling and giving random 4th liners too 6 minutes and PP2 time over some of the kids. Knoblauch hasn’t been great with getting Laf ice time, but he’s also coaching for his career right now.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

But why does Buffalo care if he asks out, even publicly?

Are they going to lose more often by keeping him as an unhappy player?

It's going to tarnish their image?

The rest of the team will play uninspired hockey by having him there?

Because ownership doesn’t want to commit $10m per of real dollars and cap allocation to a player that is anything less than 100% committed. Even if it’s just a perception out there that comes w a daily media circus.

Basically if they fail to act before 7/1/22, there are really only two scenarios that could happen. Either Buffalo becomes a contender and the relationship is mended in time, or Eichel asks for a trade once his clause kicks in and another $7.5m bonus check is cut. At that point he will control his destination a la Rick Nash and the return will be even smaller.

Then the GM gets to explain to ownership why he didn’t see this coming, wasted more of their $ and didn’t get maximum return for a star player. That’s a career killing decision.

Taking the best package now and building around Cozens/Dahlin and potential top 5 picks in 2021-23 could be the best of two bad options.

 

[jay from jersey]

Eichel: Demands a trade publicly.

Buffalo: Okay we traded you.

Eichel: Well I asked out, but I'm not going there

Buffalo: We traded him, but he is blocking the trade

Public opinion: ?

Like Nash, karlsson, stone, etc the player gives a list of teams where he’ll play. It’s up to the organization to fill his request. Happened with trouba, kessel, OEL was traded but it wasn’t to the bruins so he wouldn’t go. Unfortunately the player seems to always get what he wants. When he’s got the trading franchise by the balls. He is almost never demonized except by said team.

 

[jay from jersey]

Because ownership doesn’t want to commit $10m per of real dollars and cap allocation to a player that is anything less than 100% committed. Even if it’s just a perception out there that comes w a daily media circus.

Basically if they fail to act before 7/1/22, there are really only two scenarios that could happen. Either Buffalo becomes a contender and the relationship is mended in time, or Eichel asks for a trade once his clause kicks in and another $7.5m bonus check is cut. At that point he will control his destination a la Rick Nash and the return will be even smaller.

Then the GM gets to explain to ownership why he didn’t see this coming, wasted more of their $ and didn’t get maximum return for a star player. That’s a career killing decision.

Taking the best package now and building around Cozens/Dahlin and potential top 5 picks in 2021-23 could be the best of two bad options.

this, you kickstart your rebuild with a new coach and kids that want to be there and that are hungry. Build around Dahlin, Quinn,Cozens, Pekar, etc. Eichel trade would fill a lot of holes in that line up but create a big one at center. They won’t be better overnight but in the long haul they will be better for it IMO

 

[Tob]

wront rhead

 

[Flan the incredible]

For arguments sake, Eichel asks publicly for a trade and the Sabres did not honor it and he half asses it on the ice.

If you were a free agent and had other options would you really commit to playing there? No chance you want to be in that toxic environment. Buffalo wouldnt be able to sign anyone worth anything until Eichel is gone.

Plus if you are the GM, players will remember what you did to a superstar.....career over.

Sabres would have no choice but to get rid of him.

 

[MarkMessyay11]

@bobbop is it too late for me to change my decision to expose Strome?

 

[Off Sides]

Because ownership doesn’t want to commit $10m per of real dollars and cap allocation to a player that is anything less than 100% committed. Even if it’s just a perception out there that comes w a daily media circus.

Basically if they fail to act before 7/1/22, there are really only two scenarios that could happen. Either Buffalo becomes a contender and the relationship is mended in time, or Eichel asks for a trade once his clause kicks in and another $7.5m bonus check is cut. At that point he will control his destination a la Rick Nash and the return will be even smaller.

Then the GM gets to explain to ownership why he didn’t see this coming, wasted more of their $ and didn’t get maximum return for a star player. That’s a career killing decision.

Taking the best package now and building around Cozens/Dahlin and potential top 5 picks in 2021-23 could be the best of two bad options.

Yet the players who they trade for are going to be 100% committed? Or are they just going to leave as soon as they can as well?

And why is Dahlin not also requesting a trade once he is extended?

As far as their GM, I'm under the impression the owners are making the choices.

Botterill, who made his reputation as a cap wizard with the Pittsburgh Penguins, apparently wasn’t wild about a max contract for Jack Eichel either, according to Elliotte Friedman. The Pegulas reportedly overruled him and insisted on locking the star center up long-term,

https://thehockeywriters.com/buffalo-sabres-pegulas-ownership-problems/

 

[haohmaru]

It might be painful and hard to face, but we're all going to have to acknowledge that Ryan Strome is a legit 2C. 165 games as a Ranger, 122 points.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Yet the players who they trade for are going to be 100% committed? Or are they just going to leave as soon as they can as well?

And why is Dahlin not also requesting a trade once he is extended?

As far as their GM, I'm under the impression the owners are making the choices.



https://thehockeywriters.com/buffalo-sabres-pegulas-ownership-problems/

At the end of the day I can think of lots of examples of disgruntled (openly or not) players who were eventually moved just in recent history...Nash, O’Reilly, Duchene, Trouba, PLD, Laine.

I can’t think of many who mended fences with their current team. If it is true that Eichel wants out, IMO it’s an if not when situation. We don’t really know enough to know what the real situation is behind the scenes.

 

[Off Sides]

At the end of the day I can think of lots of examples of disgruntled (openly or not) players who were eventually moved just in recent history...Nash, O’Reilly, Duchene, Trouba, PLD, Laine.

I can’t think of many who mended fences with their current team. If it is true that Eichel wants out, IMO it’s an if not when situation. We don’t really know enough to know what the real situation is behind the scenes.

Again if I am Buffalo I'm just keeping Eichel unless the trade brings back way more than is seemingly going to be offered for him.

If he asks out, even publicly, I just say I am still working on a trade.

ROR did not want to be in Colorado, he was traded, the return did nothing much for Colorado. Then he did not want to be in Buffalo, the return for him there also did nothing for them.

Nash, did the return for him really help Columbus more than Nash himself playing there would have? In fact the Rangers won that deal based not only on Nash but the 3rd they received back turned into Buch.

Duchene much like ROR was traded twice and the total return amounted to Turris.

It just does not make much sense for teams to trade players when they request a trade. Trouba wouldn't sign away any UFA years, maybe lucky for the Jets, however Eichel is signed for 5 more years, not sure how that is an apt comparison.

Buffalo has issues, one of them is retaining players for any length of time, another is developing much of anything beyond the top 2 picks in any draft, if they trade Eichel they'll be lucky to get something to the effect of a Turris and Reinhart out of it long term.

Just because teams trade players who ask out does not mean it's actually the best move for their franchise.

 

[bleedblue94]

Think what you want.

Whats happening on the ice is not because of Knoblauch.

The system they are playing and the results they are seeing is all due to Quinn.

This team that we are seeing now is very similar to the team we saw down the stretch last year before Covid.

The biggest difference is we are better fundamentally defensively because of Jacques Martin.

Mika is playing like God
Panarin is doing Panarin like things which is awesome
Fox is actually better than last year
Buch is better
Strome has been better

These are the things that are having the impact on outcomes.

Not a placeholder behind the bench

Is knoblauch responsible for making the decision when igor gets pulled for the extra skater right now or is Quinn sending smoke signals??

 

[bleedblue94]

What are you rambling about?

Knoblauch said the move was discussed previously. Knoblauch was coaching and pulled the trigger on it at a particular time for whatever reason and then it worked right away. Good on him. Time will tell if it continues.

No one is arguing on Quinn’s behalf or saying that Knoblauch is wearing an ear piece. It was a nice coaching move but let’s not turn him into Scotty Bowman just yet.

You're stepping into this after a constant back and forth so what you quoted has no context. I'm not going to relive it at this point