Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXVI: Spring into action (GMJG outta hibernation?)

[Edge]

Pretty interesting stat

kakko is tied for the most goals of any player drafted in the 2019 draft with... jack hughes also 14 goals.

both have played exactly 90 games. Hughes has only 8 more points to his credit than our boy kakko. While kakko this year has the much better underlying numbers

seems like these two are developing at a very similar pace.

one thing though is hughes consistently gets big mins and big pp time while kakko does not

This kind of goes back to the peer to peer comparison I’ve made, rather than historical. From 2017 on there’s been a bit of downward trend in production right out of the gate. Is it the new norm, is it an aberration, is it the players, or is it all of those factors? More time is needed.

But for me, that’s kind of where the difference between frustrated and concerned comes into play.

Even when looking at Laf, he has very similar ES numbers to Stutzle. A big part of the difference is utilization, including special teams.

 

[Edge]

That’s an eye opener for me. The increasing amount of players with takeaways is awesome and contribute to momentum changes thanks to kakko, bread, and Fox.

Generally speaking those numbers are part of a larger sign that the offense should be coming. That’s huge in my eyes.

 

[True Blue]

well it’s being disingenuous to say Buchnevich has been a consistent hockey player to this point. That’s just flat out in no way true. This is in fact his best year it is in fact a contract year and it is in fact his most consistent stretch of the hockey he’s capable of playing. That shouldn’t be an argumentative statement.

Last year, he was trending to 55 points. This year, he is going to let's even say just 70. Or better yet, through 30 games, he is actually trending to 79, but let's hair cut it to sixtyish. That is now comprising 98 games. Stating that over the last 100ish games, that he has been a consistent hockey player is not at all disingenuous. It is actually factual. That is over a season's worth of games. You are really going to say that is "just flat out in no way true"? If so, which part? Or are you going to point out that a players performance over 100 games does not constitute being consistent? Seems to me that taking that sample and pointing to consistency is much more realistic than pointing to 30 games and claiming that they are the contract year breakout.

 

[Kovalev27]

This kind of goes back to the peer to peer comparison I’ve made, rather than historical. From 2017 on there’s been a bit of downward trend in production right out of the gate. Is it he needs norm, is it an aberration, is it the players, or is it all of them? More time is needed.

But for me, that’s kind of where the difference between frustrated and concerned comes into play.

Even when looking at Laf, he has very similar ES numbers to Stutzle. A big part of the difference is utilization, including special teams.

I think it’s the speed. The leagues never been faster. These kids are struggling right out the gate to catch up and then the confidence fails them a bit. But that’s what I see and it makes sense to see them trending downwards over the past 5 years. The speed is crazy right now so much of it coming from the back end transitioning so quickly. You don’t have lugs back there chipping off the glass all day

 

[Kovalev27]

Last year, he was trending to 55 points. This year, he is going to let's even say just 70. Or better yet, through 30 games, he is actually trending to 79, but let's hair cut it to sixtyish. That is now comprising 98 games. Stating that over the last 100ish games, that he has been a consistent hockey player is not at all disingenuous. It is actually factual. That is over a season's worth of games. You are really going to say that is "just flat out in no way true"? If so, which part? Or are you going to point out that a players performance over 100 games does not constitute being consistent? Seems to me that taking that sample and pointing to consistency is much more realistic than pointing to 30 games and claiming that they are the contract year breakout.

So you’re adding two seasons together? No. You like to do this. I clearly am saying this is his most consistent season. Last year was not he spent plenty of time not doing anything plenty of time being what he’s always been inconsistent Don’t add the seasons together when I’m talking specifically about this season being his most consistent in a contract year. Last year was not a contract year.

 

[Edge]

This is not just down the stretch. Look at their record since February began. To some of Edge's point and the slow start, had this team received even mediocre goaltending in the beginning of the season, they would be squarely in the playoff fight right now. With all of the injuries, COVID lists, personnel sagas (looking at DeAngelo), having their last nine games be manned by mostly the 3rd string goalie and a shaky second string goalie, add on to that the ridiculous slow start of the vets, that they are even where they are should be a sign for a tad of optimism.

Let’s be honest too, this division is not a cake walk. Especially when you’re the youngest team in the league. Aside from hopeful predictions of the demise of the Pens, Caps, Isles, and Flyers, the livin’ here ain’t easy.

I get people don’t want to get too caught up on what feels like excuses for this team, but holy shit has this been one of the years. Between injuries, dismissals, COVID, weird puck bounces, etc., I don’t even know where to rank the uniqueness of the season.

And again, with a team this young, when you take Panarin or Zibanejad off the table, that’s a vortex. You have kids missing several weeks at a time, that’s a gap. You have to make due with shaky performances from your second and third string goalies, that’s nearly a death sentence.

And the Rangers haven’t just faced just one of those scenarios, they’ve faced every single one of them.

 

[Edge]

I think it’s the speed. The leagues never been faster. These kids are struggling right out the gate to catch up and then the confidence fails them a bit. But that’s what I see and it makes sense to see them trending downwards over the past 5 years. The speed is crazy right now so much of it coming from the back end transitioning so quickly. You don’t have lugs back there chipping off the glass all day

I completely agree. Speed, strength and constant pressure.

 

[kovazub94]

The challenge, and difference, for the Rangers is something we talked about prior to the season - a slow start potentially putting them behind the eight ball.

Slow start is what Kreider, Strome and Shesterkin had.

It took Zibanejad almost half a season to get back to form. Chytil’s injury and Panarin’s LOA had a huge impact, and I won’t even mention other unforeseen issues.

It is what it is. If they play well the rest of the season but narrowly miss playoffs because of the above, I’d put a plus checkmark to the season after it’s over.

 

[leetch99]

Lots of question marks at C and the right wing for JG to figure out . Who stays and who goes ? KK looked great last night and that bodes well looking ahead and makes any decision easier with regards to moving Buchnevich . Do they wait and see on what Kravs/Gauthier do the rest of the season before they make a move on Buch ?

Imagine this rebuild if we did not have the success we have had with Lindgren/Fox/Miller this early in their Ranger career ? Lindgren is a very decent rusher with the puck...he surprises some defenders . If he can keep improving on that it really helps us and takes some pressure off of Fox now that Tony is history . The rest of the season will be very interesting .

 

[True Blue]

Let’s be honest too, this division is not a cake walk. Especially when you’re the youngest team in the league. Aside from hopeful predictions of the demise of the Pens, Caps, Isles, and Flyers, the livin’ here ain’t easy.

I get people don’t want to get too caught up on what feels like excuses for this team, but holy shit has this been one of the years. Between injuries, dismissals, COVID, weird puck bounces, etc., I don’t even know where to rank the uniqueness of the season.

And again, with a team this young, when you take Panarin or Zibanejad off the table, that’s a vortex. You have kids missing several weeks at a time, that’s a gap. You have to make due with shaky performances from your second and third string goalies, that’s nearly a death sentence.

And the Rangers haven’t just faced just one of those scenarios, they’ve faced every single one of them.

Cannot be stated enough. With all of the things that were listed being the youngest team in the league's absolutely toughest, most physical division is not a shingle you want to hand on anyone.

 

[duhmetreE]

Pretty interesting stat

kakko is tied for the most goals of any player drafted in the 2019 draft with... jack hughes also 14 goals.

both have played exactly 90 games. Hughes has only 8 more points to his credit than our boy kakko. While kakko this year has the much better underlying numbers

seems like these two are developing at a very similar pace.

one thing though is hughes consistently gets big mins and big pp time while kakko does not

Come on, that's borderline disingenuous...

That's pretty much saying Kakko has more Goals than Jack Hughes, who is not a goal scorer and in a boys body.

No one else has anywhere close to the same amount of GP in the NHL. Dach is hurt. Everyone else did not play last year. He should have the most goals

Kakko will be fine as long as he goes to scoring areas. He still stagnates a bit, making himself easier to defend/cover.

 

[True Blue]

So you’re adding two seasons together? No. You like to do this. I clearly am saying this is his most consistent season. Last year was not he spent plenty of time not doing anything plenty of time being what he’s always been inconsistent Don’t add the seasons together when I’m talking specifically about this season being his most consistent in a contract year. Last year was not a contract year.

I am contradicting your assertion that his breakout is tied to these 30 games. I am stating that his breakout is now 100 games long. Long enough for the belief that maybe this is now who he is.

Last year, he was a 55 point player. He spent December with awful puck luck. We can offset that with what has been going on this month.

I am most certainly going to talk about more than this season. You want to talk about breakouts? That is what last year was. Know what this season is? Building on the prior year's breakout.

 

[JohnC]

Even when looking at Laf, he has very similar ES numbers to Stutzle. A big part of the difference is utilization, including special teams.

Hell, even Machinehead would be putting up points in that shit tier Canadian division

 

[LORDE]

Let’s be honest too, this division is not a cake walk. Especially when you’re the youngest team in the league. Aside from hopeful predictions of the demise of the Pens, Caps, Isles, and Flyers, the livin’ here ain’t easy.

I get people don’t want to get too caught up on what feels like excuses for this team, but holy shit has this been one of the years. Between injuries, dismissals, COVID, weird puck bounces, etc., I don’t even know where to rank the uniqueness of the season.

And again, with a team this young, when you take Panarin or Zibanejad off the table, that’s a vortex. You have kids missing several weeks at a time, that’s a gap. You have to make due with shaky performances from your second and third string goalies, that’s nearly a death sentence.

And the Rangers haven’t just faced just one of those scenarios, they’ve faced every single one of them.

Agree with all of this but every team deals with COVID lists, so it would be in everyone's best interests to leave that out of the excuse folder.

You (the collective not specific "YOU") could replace it with Panarin's leave of absence AND the clear distraction that debacle was to him prior to it.

 

[kovazub94]

well it’s being disingenuous to say Buchnevich has been a consistent hockey player to this point. That’s just flat out in no way true. This is in fact his best year it is in fact a contract year and it is in fact his most consistent stretch of the hockey he’s capable of playing. That shouldn’t be an argumentative statement.

But he HAS been consistent (while still improving) since the start of the last season. Not PPG consistent but 0.7-0.8 PPG for sure.

You’re well known for advocating to move Buchnevich sooner than later, which is your opinion and it’s fine. To that end now you added a totally disingenuous assertion that Buchnevich’s success is specifically driven by his only motivation to get a large next contract (and then he will become unmotivated and unproductive again - so the Rangers should not sign him).

 

[Kovalev27]

Come on, that's borderline disingenuous...

That's pretty much saying Kakko has more Goals than Jack Hughes, who is not a goal scorer and in a boys body.

No one else has anywhere close to the same amount of GP in the NHL. Dach is hurt. Everyone else did not play last year. He should have the most goals

Kakko will be fine as long as he goes to scoring areas. He still stagnates a bit, making himself easier to defend/cover.

how is that saying kakko has more goals? I literally again just stated facts. What’s going on today lol

 

[Kovalev27]

But he HAS been consistent (while still improving) since the start of the last season. Not PPG consistent but 0.7-0.8 PPG for sure.

You’re well known for advocating to move Buchnevich sooner than later, which is your opinion and it’s fine. To that end now you added a totally disingenuous assertion that Buchnevich’s success is specifically driven by his only motivation to get a large next contract (and then he will become unmotivated and unproductive again - so the Rangers should not sign him).

I asked a question. Is anyone concerned that his most consistent season for a player well known for his inconsistency (not sure how that’s even debatable) is coming in a contract year

I didn’t say Buchnevich is only playing well because it’s a contract year. I asked if anyone had concerns about it. Again you could have just answered the question and then we could have talked about it

 

[duhmetreE]

how is that saying kakko has more goals? I literally again just stated facts. What’s going on today lol

I get it but it's just saying he has as many goals as Jack Hughes. It's a 2 man comparison. Inculding the entire draft class is semantics and wordplay

The takeaway stat is what is impressive. That's where he's competing with the entire NHL... If we have a Finnish Stone...

Including the entire draft class is trying to paint it something its not. It's him vs Hughes. It's Rangers propaganda.. Hopefully it's not even close by the end of the season.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Come on, that's borderline disingenuous...

That's pretty much saying Kakko has more Goals than Jack Hughes, who is not a goal scorer and in a boys body.

No one else has anywhere close to the same amount of GP in the NHL. Dach is hurt. Everyone else did not play last year. He should have the most goals

Kakko will be fine as long as he goes to scoring areas. He still stagnates a bit, making himself easier to defend/cover.

I think the point of what he was saying is that for everyone calling these kids a bust. The truth is the last couple of years has shown high draft picks aren’t coming out of the gate putting up 60 points a season.

I’ve mentioned it before on this board that the speed and skill currently in the nhl is unprecedented. Teams are using defensemen like they’ve never been used before and the speed on the backend is crazy. 19 year old kids just aren’t prepared for it. The more we see kk and laf the more I try to take a step back and realize that when they are 22-23 years old they are going to be exceptional players in this league

 

[duhmetreE]

I think the point of what he was saying is that for everyone calling these kids a bust. The truth is the last couple of years has shown high draft picks aren’t coming out of the gate putting up 60 points a season.

I’ve mentioned it before on this board that the speed and skill currently in the nhl is unprecedented. Teams are using defensemen like they’ve never been used before and the speed on the backend is crazy. 19 year old kids just aren’t prepared for it. The more we see kk and laf the more I try to take a step back and realize that when they are 22-23 years old they are going to be exceptional players in this league

I think that's being over represented. There's a minority that have claimed that.

Critiquing his playstyle ( which I have, he's been glued to the perimeter ) and his 'usage', shouldn't be muddied in, with that minority.

Either way, hopefully this sparks him

 

[rangers1314]

 

[eco's bones]

On the Devils Hughes is just more up front and center. The Devils just don’t have as many options of who can create offense. Jack is stronger this year but he’s still a small player and his size and strength aren’t his strongpoints and if Hischier isn’t in the lineup more of the onus for carrying the team falls on Hughes shoulders. Kakko doesn’t have these issues and the Rangers can afford to be more patient with him.

Somewhat the same with Stutzle and Lafreniere. Stutzle is the better skater though—but the Senators are willing to overlook some of Stutzle’s weaker points because they need his offense.

 

[UnSandvich]

I asked a question. Is anyone concerned that his most consistent season for a player well known for his inconsistency (not sure how that’s even debatable) is coming in a contract year

I didn’t say Buchnevich is only playing well because it’s a contract year. I asked if anyone had concerns about it. Again you could have just answered the question and then we could have talked about it

I don't. Buch has been consistently improving year after year. If anything, I'd be concerned if he wasn't.

You talk about his most consistent season is during a contract year, while ignoring the fact that he's just a better player than previous years.

 

[Savant]

I think Jack Hughes has more things that you can see tangibly improved. His shot is better, but it couldn’t get any worse. He got bigger, but he was a twig. Not to mention he is a flashier player in general so this tangible improvements are easier to see. And the Devils have much less expectations than the Rangers do so it’s a bit more insulated. And Hughes is a center.

With Kakko he is getting better, but it isn’t as obvious. And with the numbers not being there it looks worse. But obviously the production needs to start coming.

 

[eco's bones]

The Rangers right now are 10th best in the league in goals against per game. They are 7th best in giving up the fewest shots against. After last night we squeaked again into the second best penalty killing team. Compared to what happened after the letter came out that is significant improvement this year and it’s a young D with Fox, Lindgren and Miller in our top 4 and we still have Lundkvist, Schneider, Robertson, Jones and Reunanen to come.

Our goaltending has been somewhat inconsistent particularly Alex but even Igor has had issues. Better goaltending and we’d be better placed. Our offense has been inconsistent as well but seems to be coming around now. This is a team IMO that is on the verge of breaking out—if not this year than next year. To me though how well we defend as a team is the most important part in how we go from an also ran into a contender.