Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXIX: Going 11-3 to close out this crazy year should do it!

[Edge]

Can they extend-and-trade?

We would pursue an opportunity where both sides more or less had a deal in place, or knew they were gonna come to an agreement without too much struggle.

 

[Edge]

I have absolutely zero interest in trading Kravtsov until we know for an absolute fact how all three of him, Kakko, and Lafreniere pan out. We ideally trade none of them, but in a world in which we probably have to trade one, we have to make sure we trade the worst one.

And that could be yet another factor in why Buch ends up having to go for a young center.

Because, as you said, it's just too damn hard to walk away from Kravtsov, Kakko and Lafreniere at this stage.

That's a big part of why, while no one wants to trade Buch, it is going to be a very strong consideration.

 

[DudMan28]

That's a tough one. It's almost easy to forget how young Zibanejad was, his high draft pedigree and the fact that he was at least a 50 point player (like I said previously, a weird freakin move for Ottawa).

I mean by comparison, Zibanejad was the same age as guys on our team like Howden, Gauthier, Lindgren, Hajek, and less than year older than Barron will be next year.

At 23, he and Adam Graves were the epitome of onward and upward youngish-experienced talent for their respective Rangers generations.

So if you're looking based on age, you're talking the 2016 draft. PLD is a guy in that 50-60 range you hope becomes a 70-80 point guy. That's probably the easiest comparison. I dunno if there's another good match there.

If we include the 2015 draft (24 next season), maybe Strome. Maybe Colin White. Maybe Roslovic. But the first isn't quite in the same boat, we're not dealing with Ottawa for the second, and the third is already doing his thing for the team that acquired him.

If we look at the 2017 draft (22 next season), Glass comes to mind but doesn't quite fit the mold of having the track record under him. Ditto for Mittelstadt. Suzuki? Thomas?

Vegas is a possibility if they find the cap space. I don't see that deal happening with Buffalo. Montreal would need an extension in place before they'd even remotely consider Suzuki or Kotkaniemi.

It's definitely not an easy comp to find. PLD does seem to be the closest match. 2014 gives you a few of the guys I mentioned above from Arizona and Larkin.

The Roslovic move seems like one we could try to mimic. A guy with upside that is blocked in the lineup. Kinda sounds like Chytil.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

I dunno, we didn't get the return on Hajek and Howden we wanted. But we also used the assets associated with that deal (space/pick) to sign Panarin and land a kid who is now one of the best defensive prospects in the sport. I think when push comes to shove, our destiny is gonna be pretty okay from that deal.

Callahan for St. Louis actually saw both teams gets to the conference finals with the guy they acquired, with our guy playing a bigger role in our journey.

Again, you make good points (and frankly, I feel silly arguing hockey with someone who is WAY more knowledgeable than I am). Perhaps it comes down in part to me emotionally reacting to the trades as opposed to rationally reacting to them, and in part to not thinking in terms of - as you put it - the effect on our destiny, as opposed to "we gave away ABC and only got back XYZ."

 

[duhmetreE]

And that could be yet another factor in why Buch ends up having to go for a young center.

Because, as you said, it's just too damn hard to walk away from Kravtsov, Kakko and Lafreniere at this stage.

That's a big part of why, while no one wants to trade Buch, it is going to be a very strong consideration.

You mentioned Florida... and the likelihood of Barkov re-signing.

Is there a world where a Buch+young LHD for Lundell exists?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Krav and Lundk should Eichel costs, not Larkin.

 

[Edge]

You mentioned Florida... and the likelihood of Barkov re-signing.

Is there a world where a Buch + young LHD for Lundell exists? Another player that fits the mold

Florida intrigues me just from hearing rumbles about what they supposedly want to do. I think these realize with the roster they have, and the coach, if they're not gonna invest now and make this their window, there's no point.

I believe Buch would be a very good fit there. But the only player I'm interested in from them is Lundell. I'm not adding to get him either. At this point we're trading a 26 year old, 70+ point two-way forward. If they're getting him as a RFA and they feel they can sign him, I'm looking for a center who can someday challenge for a top six role. That's Lundell. I don't want the rest of their mystery prizes. I'd go elsewhere if that's the offer.

 

[Fitzy]

And that could be yet another factor in why Buch ends up having to go for a young center.

Because, as you said, it's just too damn hard to walk away from Kravtsov, Kakko and Lafreniere at this stage.

That's a big part of why, while no one wants to trade Buch, it is going to be a very strong consideration.

Yeah. At a certain point some known quantities will have to be dealt with the hope some younger unknown quantities fill the gap, just because of the way salaries trend from year to year. Plus, moving on from veterans while they still have value helps replenish the prospect cupboard and extend the window in which the team has a solid roster. This makes it so this time, the Rangers don’t have to trade all their top picks from year to year to continue to be good.

If Buch goes, it’s time to get Kakko involved in the penalty kill, and more offensive minutes for Kravtsov open up.

And as you alluded to, Buch for Lundell would make a lot of sense both for value, position, and age.

 

[Edge]

Again, you make good points (and frankly, I feel silly arguing hockey with someone who is WAY more knowledgeable than I am). Perhaps it comes down in part to me emotionally reacting to the trades as opposed to rationally reacting to them, and in part to not thinking in terms of - as you put it - the effect on our destiny, as opposed to "we gave away ABC and only got back XYZ."

I think it's hard because we (understandably) are trained to look at trades win/loss incidents. And to an extent they are. But there's also a weird layer of other factors that play in as well.

On the one hand we think to ourselves, we gave up ABC and we only got back XYZ. On the other we have to ask, what we would have looked liked with ABC in place of DEF we pursued in addition to the XYZ.

Miller ending up getting moved by them for picks a year later. He's got the numbers in Vancouver, but count me as someone who wonders if the Canucks actually win with him. I've always said I feel like we basically have Ryan Strome in that same sphere.

McD was heading toward yet another playoffs with an injury and reduced effectiveness until a pandemic gave him a break and a chance to get back in the lineup. He's a fairly expensive, second pair defenseman who is not even close to the player he was even just two years ago. And he has five more years left on his deal.

Unfortunately, back in 2018 other teams news this as well --- perhaps even better than a lot of Rangers fans. The most "promising" offer outside of Tampa's was from Toronto and was built around Jeremy Bracco and pieces that would've produced even less than what we've gotten from Howden and Hajek.

So it's not what we'd hoped for, but I'm not sure quite sure in an alternate universe there's an outcome that pushes the envelope either.

 

[Avery16]

Would rather Strome for Lundell than Buchnevich.

 

[mas0764]

It is what it is, sucks that Gorts didnt have a crystal ball to see we were going to somehow win the Laf lottery. Kinda similar to us signing Trouba becoming moot with emergence of Fox

It’s really not like that. I was against you a resigning Kreider at the time and I didn’t know they were winning the lottery either.

Having Lafreniere is the nail in the coffin but it was completely foreseeable that Kreider was a streaky player who was not going to be worth that deal for long stretches at a time and given his hit streak and the prices being paid at that deadline his value was never higher.

 

[mas0764]

What would an ideal Buch trade look like?

For Lundell straight up

 

[mas0764]

And that could be yet another factor in why Buch ends up having to go for a young center.

Because, as you said, it's just too damn hard to walk away from Kravtsov, Kakko and Lafreniere at this stage.

That's a big part of why, while no one wants to trade Buch, it is going to be a very strong consideration.

Thats what I would do. Double down on Kakko/Kravtsov/Lafreniere and get a center for their age range (under 22) at the expense of one of our “older” and “ready to win now” pieces who plays a superfluous long term position (wing). Kreider fits this bill even better but he has a NMC and straight up isn’t as valuable as Buch since he has never produced at the same levels pace-wise.

 

[mas0764]

Florida intrigues me just from hearing rumbles about what they supposedly want to do. I think these realize with the roster they have, and the coach, if they're not gonna invest now and make this their window, there's no point.

I believe Buch would be a very good fit there. But the only player I'm interested in from them is Lundell. I'm not adding to get him either. At this point we're trading a 26 year old, 70+ point two-way forward. If they're getting him as a RFA and they feel they can sign him, I'm looking for a center who can someday challenge for a top six role. That's Lundell. I don't want the rest of their mystery prizes. I'd go elsewhere if that's the offer.

I would add, like, Reunanen or Hajek. Not Jones or Robertson.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Possibly monitor if Detroit decides to shop Larkin.

Possibly monitor if Chicago shops Toews and is willing to retain.

Eye young centers on teams with an interest in Buch.

Toews is a really interesting one. It has such a Messier vibe to it, especially since Toews was compared to him. He’s got 2 years left after this year at 10.5, he’s 32. He’s been really tight lipped about his “medical condition.” Is it something cardiac like what Hank went through? Is it mental like what happened with Big Buff? Toews is a really interesting suggestion, in theory he’s got nothing left to prove, he’s won 3 Cups, Chicago is rebuilding.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

He wouldn't be eligible for expansion anyway

Eligible, yes. Meeting requirements, no.

Technically, Seattle can pick him

 

[Irishguy42]

Eligible, yes. Meeting requirements, no.

Technically, Seattle can pick him

Yeah I had them backwards

 

[wafflepadsave]

That's another one that's gonna cost ya. Not as much as Eichel, but still hefty.

Personally, I think he'd be a great fit here with this roster.

Not to mention Yzerman doesn’t lose trades.

 

[leetch99]

Havent even mentioned Barkov. WTF are you talking about?

I guess I should have explained it out better . Barkov can be signed as a UFA costing no assets and that he would also be young enough to still , " play with the farm" ! You see....Eichel is not the only option out there...which is what I was attempting to point out in the least amount of typing ....me bad...

 

[kovazub94]

5x5 for Strome with a limited NTC, who says no?

Same contract we gave Brassard in 2014 after only a 45 point season.

IMO a year too long from the Rangers perspective and a mil short from Strome’s.

 

[rangers1314]

Possibly monitor if Detroit decides to shop Larkin.

Possibly monitor if Chicago shops Toews and is willing to retain.

Eye young centers on teams with an interest in Buch.

Have you heard anything on him? There were some very not good rumors floating around earlier in the year but I have no reason to believe them.

The silence is odd though.

 

[kovazub94]

Can anyone help me with a comparable today to what Mika was a few year ago? I know the usual names of Turcotte, Zegras, Krebs, Newhook etc, but I feel like Zib was a bit further along than them at that point.

Chytil

 

[kovazub94]

This seemed an easier way to share this segment than upload a video file.

 

[Cag29]

And that could be yet another factor in why Buch ends up having to go for a young center.

Because, as you said, it's just too damn hard to walk away from Kravtsov, Kakko and Lafreniere at this stage.

That's a big part of why, while no one wants to trade Buch, it is going to be a very strong consideration.

That’s really sucks because I like Buch. And how often has a home grown 3rd rounder turn into a 1st line player for us ?

 

[kovazub94]

The dominoes fall starts with a decision on Zibanejad.

If the Rangers don’t build a dynasty (that’s clearly possible) it will be this decision and, to a lesser degree, Kreider’s extension which was a lot more justifiable at a time without hindsight, but still a pretty risky call at a time.