Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXIX: Going 11-3 to close out this crazy year should do it!

[shnagle]

All future directions for the Rangers begin and end with their decision on Mika. If Gorton and co believe he is a #1 franchise center capable of bringing home a cup, then they have to extend him(6-7 years at likely $9million). If you don't believe he is "the guy" then you have to move him for the best deal possible. I would even retain 50% for the 1 year or add a D prospect to a contender like Vegas or Colorado in hopes of landing an up and coming #1 center(Glass/Krebs/Newhook) who could hopefully slot into the lineup as early as next year. The money not spent on Mika plus our boatload of cap space and high end prospects would really give Gorton a lot of flexibility to shape this roster. Tough call for Gorton but nothing can happen without a decision on Mika first.

 

[MrAlmost]

Is it assumed that Z will need to be signed to an 8 year deal? What if he just signed 6? 8mil for 6 years for Z seems better than trading a bunch of stuff for Eichel, who isn't as good as people are saying in this tread nor is he any more durable and with a higher cap hit while we have a ton of contracts to give out in the next 2 years.

Unless Buffalo retains 2 million and the players going to Buffalo are Buch, Georgiev, Hajek, Chytil and Howden. This wouldn't happen.

People seem very impatient. If this team keeps progressing like they have, their window will last longer than 6 years. I mean, hell, in 6 years Fox will still be 29. Hahaha

EDIT: Also, what if Tampa moves Stamkos. He would be cheaper to acquire, cheaper cap, and might pair better with Z and Strome down the middle. And that would fill our need to acquire another injury prone center.

 

[Rongomania]

I think we should at least try Krav at C for a few games before making some giant move
What is there to lose?

Would be really interesting if he did it and didn't look out of place. Kid works his ass off and certainly has the frame for it. I just worry about the added pressure when he looks so smooth at wing.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Is it assumed that Z will need to be signed to an 8 year deal? What if he just signed 6? 8mil for 6 years for Z seems better than trading a bunch of stuff for Eichel, who isn't as good as people are saying in this tread nor is he any more durable and with a higher cap hit while we have a ton of contracts to give out in the next 2 years.

Unless Buffalo retains 2 million and the players going to Buffalo are Buch, Georgiev, Hajek, Chytil and Howden. This wouldn't happen.

People seem very impatient. If this team keeps progressing like they have, their window will last longer than 6 years. I mean, hell, in 6 years Fox will still be 29. Hahaha

What is wrong with you guys. People you understand if you sign zibs for 6 years 8m which is gonna be to low for him, its ONLY a 2m difference in salary. Then factor in their age... Its no contest. Eichel would be the same age as Fox if you want to talk about windows. Stop trying to shit on Eichel, he is a top 5 player in this league at his position. Dont forget that when you say we sign zibs for 6 years. He will be 35 when his contract is up.

IF we trade for Eichel there will be another trade involved with moving zibs in a hockey deal similar to the one that brought him here, while still figuring out what to do with strome.

I want Eichel but it depends on the return of course. But to say Eichel wont be a beast here is just nonsense.

 

[Off Sides]

I have long been fans of a bunch of the key, "older" players on this team we've watched develop over the last few years. In particular, I was bullish on Buch as a prospect from his draft day and was, I think, by far the most enthusiastic about dealing Brassard for Zibanejad (plus a 2nd!) on the day it happened. And on top of that I have long been intrigued by Eichel; the idea of a young, top-5 (at least in terms of raw talent) center to pair with the group we've assembled is enticing to say the least. BUT...

...the more I watch these kids play, and then think about roster construction, pay raises, existing NMC clauses, and the impact of the flat cap...

...the more I am coming to a position where I actually say, f*ck it, trade all of Mika, Buch, and Strome, and load up on young centers from other teams in their window now.

Colorado falls short again? Vegas loses in another heartbreaker? St. Louis continues to underperform? Edmonton wastes another year of McDavid's prime? Boy, wouldn't it help to have one of those top-notch forwards – especially since one is an RFA, and the other two have another year left at extremely affordable rates? Make me your best offer of a package that begins with Newhook, Glass, Thomas, or Holloway. Step right up, the bidding starts now.

I wish I could like this post more than once as I have felt that way since before last deadline, even when they were in the playoff picture, and even before the prospects looked as good.

Like Kreider last deadline being traded for the pick that the Rangers used on Tomasino would not look like a brilliant move right now.

Anyway, I am not very optimistic the Rangers see it that way even now, I more expect them to build their roster for a kick at the can next year more so than them waiting on a young center to grab the reigns.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Would be really interesting if he did it and didn't look out of place. Kid works his ass off and certainly has the frame for it. I just worry about the added pressure when he looks so smooth at wing.

Guys can we please stop this bern nonsense. Kravtsov, Kakko, Laf and so on are ALL WINGERS. They are not moving to center, havent played center in a long time and belong on the wing. Stop trying to move them to center to fix the issue. It isnt happening. It would be great if we could solve the problem that easily but it isnt going to happen. So can we all stop trying to move them to center where they dont belong. We are going to find an actual center in the offseason.

 

[CLW]

From what I heard anything that can save them cash...

@bobbop knows best

I don't know about giving up Lundkvist for him. Jones though, yes

No. AZ have a billionaire owner, they are not in a money pinch. What the Yotes need is to retool after the disastrous Chayka years on top of stability in the franchise. They need to destroy the current model going back decades of never being very good, never sucking enough for top picks, but that's easier said than done. They have a gazillion journeymen on their roster atm.

They would no doubt be very interested in a good offensive C (Strome), they have Keller and Dvorak down the middle right now. They need real talent in return + high picks, especially if they send out what little talent they have in a trade.

 

[MrAlmost]

What is wrong with you guys. People you understand if you sign zibs for 6 years 8m which is gonna be to low for him, its ONLY a 2m difference in salary. Then factor in their age... Its no contest. Eichel would be the same age as Fox if you want to talk about windows. Stop trying to shit on Eichel, he is a top 5 player in this league at his position. Dont forget that when you say we sign zibs for 6 years. He will be 35 when his contract is up.

IF we trade for Eichel there will be another trade involved with moving zibs in a hockey deal similar to the one that brought him here, while still figuring out what to do with strome.

I want Eichel but it depends on the return of course. But to say Eichel wont be a beast here is just nonsense.

This is silly. You want to make 4 trades to solve a problem fixed by just signing the guy you have now that IS a better overall player than Eichel. Offense isn't everything.

And 2 million matters in every year, but especially now with a flat cap.

And you'll have to forgive me, years of big name acquisitions that do shit for this team do make me tentative, especially ones as expensive as Eichel. That's not Eichel's fault, of course.

 

[Ola]

Not so sure the Rangers offense is much different than last year. They have scored .10 goals/game less this year. Not sure 8 goals over the course of an entire year will make much of difference in the grand scheme of things.

Ok, but it was for a long stretch which I wrote. After TDA was kicked out and the poor start the team really bought into a N-S style. Think it was pretty obvious?

We have scored many goals since the team got away from DQ and excelled under KK, and after that we haven’t really reverted to how we played during that long stint that basically cost us the season.

I don’t mind how we play right now under DQ when the players run the show. But he is obviously clueless.

 

[Peltz]

Wait what! He is consistently our best fore checker and opposed to someone like Kreider he is actually using his size.

Yea, he forces turnovers using his body. I'm not really sure what he's talking about.

Zib doesn't hit, but he's still physical along the boards and wins puck battles.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

This is silly. You want to make 4 trades to solve a problem fixed by just signing the guy you have now that IS a better overall player than Eichel. Offense isn't everything.

And you'll have to forgive me, years of big name acquisitions that do shit for this team do make me tentative, especially ones as expensive as Eichel. That's not Eichel's fault, of course.

4 trades? I mentioned 2. Thats it. Strome is kicked down the road no matter if we keep zibs or not. So stop trying to make it out like there will be 15 different trades made. Its 2. and Eichel is the better overall player than Zibs, and YOUNGER that matches our timeline of our players and prospects. Also, its about replacing an older player who will be in his decline just like Krieder will be for a player who is just about to enter his prime while only paying a million more per year. Im not advocating for or against the deal but to say it would be a mistake based on trades that were made during our dark ages isnt right. There are major differences betweem Eichel and say nash.

And while i agree that im tired of the big name acquisitions that were made in the past, we are not talking about nash or gaborik past their primes. We are talking about a player who is not even in his prime yet, is a beast for legit the worst franchise in the NHL for the past decade. Imagine what he will do for a team he actually wants to play for and a team that is heading towards competing for the cup for the next decade. Plus he will finally have the support around him that he never had in buffalo

 

[Peltz]

This is silly. You want to make 4 trades to solve a problem fixed by just signing the guy you have now that IS a better overall player than Eichel. Offense isn't everything.

And 2 million matters in every year, but especially now with a flat cap.

And you'll have to forgive me, years of big name acquisitions that do shit for this team do make me tentative, especially ones as expensive as Eichel. That's not Eichel's fault, of course.

I agree. We have a 2 way player in Zib in his prime. I could see trading him for a younger center, similarly to how we traded Brassard for him, but not for one that has Eichel's crazy contract. That's a tough one.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

I agree. We have a 2 way player in Zib in his prime. I could see trading him for a younger center, similarly to how we traded Brassard for him, but not for one that has Eichel's crazy contract. That's a tough one.

You are going to give the same contract to zibs if we keep him. The guy would make 2m per at most more than zibs. Its not a crazy contract, he is a top 5 center in the league. He will also be out of his prime when this young core is in their prime

 

[pld459666]

But he was born in Tashkent, so he's Uzbek

/s

 

[MrAlmost]

4 trades? I mentioned 2. Thats it. Strome is kicked down the road no matter if we keep zibs or not. So stop trying to make it out like there will be 15 different trades made. Its 2. and Eichel is the better overall player than Zibs, and YOUNGER that matches our timeline of our players and prospects. Also, its about replacing an older player who will be in his decline just like Krieder will be for a player who is just about to enter his prime while only paying a million more per year. Im not advocating for or against the deal but to say it would be a mistake based on trades that were made during our dark ages isnt right. There are major differences betweem Eichel and say nash.

And while i agree that im tired of the big name acquisitions that were made in the past, we are not talking about nash or gaborik past their primes. We are talking about a player who is not even in his prime yet, is a beast for legit the worst franchise in the NHL for the past decade. Imagine what he will do for a team he actually wants to play for and a team that is heading towards competing for the cup for the next decade. Plus he will finally have the support around him that he never had in buffalo

I apologize. It seemed to me you are implying 3 trades. Acquiring Eichel, trading Z and trading Strome. How often does that really happen? That's so much roster turnover in a very short space of time for a team that isn't rebuilding anymore. And when a rebuilding team does it, it's usually just trading away players, not acquiring players like Eichel.

Besides that, I just do not agree that Eichel is a better player than Z right now. Could that change? Yes, cause Eichel is younger, but I don't see it now. Z is better in his own end, a better skater, more physical(though it remains to be seen if this will continue given his injury and Covid bout) and kills penalties. I would also say he has a better shot, but that is close cause Eichel has a great shot too.

I understand Eichel IS different from those players in the past, but I have heard that argument a lot. Nash is different, Gaborik is different, Richards is different, Drury is different, etc. All amounted to just a bunch of dead cap space and no cup. Haha

I guess what I'm saying is unless the deal is a crazy steal for the Rangers, I just wouldn't give up yet on the players we have currently.

 

[duhmetreE]

No. AZ have a billionaire owner, they are not in a money pinch. What the Yotes need is to retool after the disastrous Chayka years on top of stability in the franchise. They need to destroy the current model going back decades of never being very good, never sucking enough for top picks, but that's easier said than done. They have a gazillion journeymen on their roster atm.

They would no doubt be very interested in a good offensive C (Strome), they have Keller and Dvorak down the middle right now. They need real talent in return + high picks, especially if they send out what little talent they have in a trade.

All owners are rich. Their bankroll and the Arizona Coyotes funds are two separate things. You're still are running a business.

If you're hemorrhaging $50M a year, can't pay bills, have $100's of millions in debt... you will seek to limit costs.. If he want's to personally cover the teams costs, that's on him but I haven't seen any indication of that. There's talks of a new arena as well.

IMO The Arizona Coyotes are going full cost controlled/regroup mode.

Keller has also made the move to wing. It's Schmaltz-Dvorak

 

[pld459666]

I will pass on every single one of those deals except probably Chytil. I'd also rather give out NTCs to lower the cap hits.

You're not getting these guys for those terms at much cheaper dollars.

At best, you may save between 1.5 and 2 million and thats stretching it.

I'd take that cost certainty and run like hell

 

[True Blue]

Ok, but it was for a long stretch which I wrote. After TDA was kicked out and the poor start the team really bought into a N-S style. Think it was pretty obvious?

We have scored many goals since the team got away from DQ and excelled under KK, and after that we haven’t really reverted to how we played during that long stint that basically cost us the season.

I don’t mind how we play right now under DQ when the players run the show. But he is obviously clueless.

If you believe that the players “fled” Quinn and are now running the show, it’s time to put the crack pipe down, turn the spaceship around and rejoin the rest of us here on planet Earth.

I also note that you rather conveniently ignore the fact that the offensive upswing was already happening before the coaching staff got COVID. But let’s not let facts get in the way of a perfectly good fantasy narrative.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

imo, it's try it with Zibs or trade Zibs + for Eichel.

As for their durability, it's a wash. Zibs was injured slightly more than Eichel even.

Personally the only argument I'm willing to hear is age. Y'all got that one.

A Zibanejad contract gets us right into the danger zone and we all know there will be a NMC with the Zibs contract, we don't hand out other contracts.

 

[pld459666]

How often are players signing long term contracts without trade/movement protection clauses in the UFA years? I’d imagine not very often at all

Don't harsh my mellow

 

[Rongomania]

Guys can we please stop this bern nonsense. Kravtsov, Kakko, Laf and so on are ALL WINGERS. They are not moving to center, havent played center in a long time and belong on the wing. Stop trying to move them to center to fix the issue. It isnt happening. It would be great if we could solve the problem that easily but it isnt going to happen. So can we all stop trying to move them to center where they dont belong. We are going to find an actual center in the offseason.

Yeah my gut is really going with we have way too many assets. I never said I wanted him at C, I just can see a little of the other sides opinion as Krav is just very studly.

 

[Kodiak]

I think Chytil's vision and playmaking problems are overblown. He plays an extreme north south game but I think a lot of that has to do so he makes sure he stays in Quinn's good graces honestly. Confidence is an issue here. He's expressed many times before that he's not sure why he's not getting more minutes and he can only play when Quinn puts him out there. He doesn't want to giveaway the puck in the offensive zone trying to make a nice pass so instead he goes for a quick shot on net or to make a deke to open up for a shot on net or to he just cycles the puck. Which to be fair, is what you expect a good third line to do. Get in their zone and cycle and not try to be overly fancy. I think he's playing to his role and until he gets given a role that allows him more playmaking freedom I'm not sure what more we can ask of him. I wish he had stayed in Europe and developed outside of this system like Kravtsov has done tbh.

I agree that Chytil's lack of vision is overblown on this board. If you look at his assists on the recent goals by Panarin and Buchnevich, you can see the skills are there. But those plays don't seem to work with Kakko and Lafreniere for whatever reason.

But I also think that the narrative that Chytil is upset or frustrated by his lack of ice time is overblown. Chytil was asked about his ice time by a reporter and he gave the standard, diplomatic answer of "Well, I can only get on the ice when the coach says to and I try to make the most of that time.", and this board twisted his statement into something it was not. Chytil is a young player behind two veterans. He knows what the situation is.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Guys can we please stop this bern nonsense. Kravtsov, Kakko, Laf and so on are ALL WINGERS. They are not moving to center, havent played center in a long time and belong on the wing. Stop trying to move them to center to fix the issue. It isnt happening. It would be great if we could solve the problem that easily but it isnt going to happen. So can we all stop trying to move them to center where they dont belong. We are going to find an actual center in the offseason.

It's really not that hard to switch positions lol, MANY players have. Players have even switched from forward to defense (and vice versa)
Kravtsov already plays like a center, he's always the first man back, and he always cheats toward the center of the ice anyway

 

[cheech70]

Panarin is the gold standard Top Salary Top Player 6 years left 70 million
Mika has to come in under this..5 years 50 million( which is Eichel money)? Then we keep him. Nobody gonna give out 80 Million dollar contracts for the foreseeable future.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I agree that Chytil's lack of vision is overblown on this board. If you look at his assists on the recent goals by Panarin and Buchnevich, you can see the skills are there. But those plays don't seem to work with Kakko and Lafreniere for whatever reason.

But I also think that the narrative that Chytil is upset or frustrated by his lack of ice time is overblown. Chytil was asked about his ice time by a reporter and he gave the standard, diplomatic answer of "Well, I can only get on the ice when the coach says to and I try to make the most of that time.", and this board twisted his statement into something it was not. Chytil is a young player behind two veterans. He knows what the situation is.

Yup.

And as regards not quite working with Kakko and Lafrenière, I think that has more to do with them than him. They're not quite there yet in their development – but you can see them getting closer and closer with every passing game.