Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXIV: 2021: “The Fun has begun” or “Over & done”?

[duhmetreE]

There's no roles. No one has a role on the team. Anybody can do anything... Another symptom of no structure..

28 year old Journey Man grinder? No problem, top6 and PP1 time for you. You'd make a great bumper.

30% face off man? No problem, go take that defensive zone draw against the other teams top line. Lets give our 3rd pair defense a chance as well.

A PP/PK just finished? lets put all of our players names in a hat and pick out some lines... it doesn't matter if there was a TV timeout.

20 seconds left on the PP? lets reward our 4th line.

Opposing team is tired and iced it? 4th line.. lets grind them down further.

Last change? Don't believe in it.

 

[Daves a mess]

How bout we try hard to find a way of landing a 1/2 Center WITHOUT trading Chytil? Buch, Nils, Kravstov, our 1st? Zib if somebody makes a good offer to a place where he can spin records and be the great guy that he is.

I'm still a bit dumbfounded that a team that stacked up SO well in the last 4 drafts with picks has come away with Chytil, Barron (who may not really end up being a center) and Henrikksuck? Were there any good center prospects available when we took that horrible Swedish goalie with our 2nd round pick?

Jeez, I can't remember the kids name. I do know that Gorts got a little salty when someone questioned his rationale behind that pick.

 

[mas0764]

That does not change the fact that I do not recall even a short period of time in which NHL tv revenue tripled.

I would agree with that fact but we are living in unprecedented times.

Regardless of how much it goes up, it is about to go up dramatically.

There is going to be a substantial cap rise coming relatively soon. The Rangers should operate under this assumption; it will give them a competitive edge even just knowing that if they can lock up guys like Buch and Shesterkin to long term deals under "current prices," then those deals are going to seem like steals 3 years down the road and will really ameliorate any squeeze from having to hand out contracts to Kakko and Lafreniere.

 

[NYblades]

Likely the latter.

We are very good at window shopping around here.

Kind of a what if he was made available scenario.

 

[duhmetreE]

Is any of this Larkin talk legit or just some of us throwing around ideas ?

@Edge is stirring the pot.... or honey potting us... either way, there's Edge and a pot.

I think it's possible. Knowing Yzerman and where that team is. I could see Larkin and Mantha moved, to solidify their chances for top picks ( Wright or Savoie ) and return top notch futures. It's good asset management imo... That's IF Yzerman is not confident Larkin will be there, long term.

 

[mas0764]

For me, I'd use the pick and then trade Strome/Buch for another pick later in the 1st and keep compiling assets. I'd be more inclined to trade a 2022 pick than 2021

If we are learning anything this season it's that the forward core is still a work in progress when it comes to stockpiling talent.

 

[mas0764]

When evaluation Larkin, keep in mind he plays an absurd amount of minutes. 9th in the entire NHL among forwards. Kane, Matthews, McDavid, Scheifele, Marner, Guentzel, Barzal, DeBrincat, Larkin, Eichel is the top 10. Plays over 3 min / game on the PP. That's Kreider/Strome level usage for context.

My point is - he gets a ton of opportunity given Detroit's roster. Have to think if he comes here his production is at best is staying flat...55-65 point output. Could be in for a Trouba-esque contract if they trade for and extend him based on his history, while his usage changes a good deal.

I'm really not interested in him unless his role, acquisition cost, and contract fit that of a second line center.

 

[Kodiak]

@Edge is stirring the pot.... or honey potting us... either way, there's Edge and a pot.

I think it's possible. Knowing Yzerman and where that team is. I could see Larkin and Mantha moved, to solidify their chances for top picks ( Wright or Savoie ) and return top notch futures. It's good asset management imo... That's IF Yzerman is not confident Larkin will be there, long term.

Larkin is only 24 (seems like he's been around for longer because he broke in so young) and has 2 more seasons on his contract. Unless he has told management that he wants out and won't resign, I don't think he gets moved. The Wings have to keep some NHL talent on the roster.

He would be a good fit if available, though.

 

[mas0764]

Just keep drafting centers until they get it right. Kakko and Laf are like 20, the centers this draft will be like 2 year younger than them. Then do it again next draft and those draftees are like 3 years younger.

Or Trade Zbad, Strome, for a center that is already drafted and is about their age. (I'd put Kreider, Trouba with them too)

I'm not chasing the dream that Panarin, Zbad, Kreider, Strome, Trouba are leading the Rangers to a Cup.

By the time Kakko, Laf, Miller, Chyil start to be really good (if ever) 2 of those 5 will need new deals, another of them will probably be declining, and it's difficult for me to believe the best of Panarin is going to happen when he is 32 and older, or that Trouba will be any better than he is right now.

100% agree. Bringing in Panarin and Trouba was/should have been with the idea of stabilizing the team and giving us something to watch while the kids developed (and to take some of the pressure off the kids).

This idea that certain middling veterans are unmovable because the team "wants to make the playoffs," is a really bad idea. As we can see, a core of Zibanejad-Kreider-Panarin-Buch is not really going anywhere other than a quick playoff exit AT BEST.

It's good to hear we plan to be sellers at the deadline.

We definitely need more forward talent to build around Kakko/Kravtsov/Lafreniere.

 

[True Blue]

I would agree with that fact but we are living in unprecedented times.

Regardless of how much it goes up, it is about to go up dramatically.

There is going to be a substantial cap rise coming relatively soon. The Rangers should operate under this assumption; it will give them a competitive edge even just knowing that if they can lock up guys like Buch and Shesterkin to long term deals under "current prices," then those deals are going to seem like steals 3 years down the road and will really ameliorate any squeeze from having to hand out contracts to Kakko and Lafreniere.

This was earlier:

Bettman: There's major escrow building up before of the lack of attendance. The salary cap will be a flat cap or near flat cap for the next four years.

 

[Tob]

The good news is we've gone from not knowing which of Lemieux and Gauthier to protect to saying meh, Lemieux or Howden, that'll free up a spot for someone.

 

[UnSandvich]

This was earlier:

Bettman: There's major escrow building up before of the lack of attendance. The salary cap will be a flat cap or near flat cap for the next four years.

Flat cap just reinforces to me that trading a massive haul for Eichel (unless accompanied by a significant long-term cap hit going the other way, or at least departing on the cheap), is something that we will end up regretting within a year or two

 

[Shesterkybomb]

When evaluation Larkin, keep in mind he plays an absurd amount of minutes. 9th in the entire NHL among forwards. Kane, Matthews, McDavid, Scheifele, Marner, Guentzel, Barzal, DeBrincat, Larkin, Eichel is the top 10. Plays over 3 min / game on the PP. That's Kreider/Strome level usage for context.

My point is - he gets a ton of opportunity given Detroit's roster. Have to think if he comes here his production is at best is staying flat...55-65 point output. Could be in for a Trouba-esque contract if they trade for and extend him based on his history, while his usage changes a good deal.

How does his production look with panarin and Kakko, or Kreider and Lafreniere?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The good news is we've gone from not knowing which of Lemieux and Gauthier to protect to saying meh, Lemieux or Howden, that'll free up a spot for someone.

I haven't, Gauthier has looked better but he doesn't bring anything special to the table. Atleast Lemieux is physical and can fight. Gauthier doesn't have a role on this team when Barron and Kravtsov arrive.

 

[Ola]

Lets not kid ourselves. EVERY coach has an expiration date. It's just the nature of the beast.

Quinn has expired already. The team does not buy in or does not understand what's being asked. Either outcome is bad.

He just don’t get it.

1. I listened to some interviews, it’s very obvious that he just don’t understand the NHL game. A good example:


For a while we stopped playing offense completely. We didn’t give up a ton, but really created very very few good scoring chances. We became super predictable.

It was just not good at all. Some improvements defensively for sure, but overall we played really crappy. Very lame games.

Here DQ says that he wants to get back to that play, he claims that our “Expected Goals” were much better than goals scored and how our shooting percentage was the worst in the league during this stretch. LARGELY this is complete and utter nonsense. Without any doubt, when you play that predictable — ie just get the puck deep, change lines, wait for mistakes, get it deep over and over again — your shooting percentage will drop like a stone. Look at LAK. We shoot really well for years — when we start to play a super predictable style our shooting percentage drops like a stone, and DQ thinks it’s “bad luck”? This is bad.

2. We — have — stopped playing that super predictable style. Look, it just don’t work in the NHL. Nobody plays that way. Nobody.

But DQ wants to get back to it.

We are not playing that way at all anymore.

DQ wants us to play that way.

We don’t play that way at all anymore.

DQ wants us to play that way.

We don’t play that way at all.

Wait, what am I hearing?? What does this tell us??

Like really, WHAT IS THIS? The coach clearly wants us to play one way, we play another. Honestly, this franchise. This is the NHL in 2021. It’s so extremely far from any kind of benchmark standard of how well NHL teams function. The players just don’t listen to the coach.

 

[Kendo]

I guess this is what happens when you don't draft a C for the past few years in the top two rounds other than Chytil.

Well, we did...but he's a headcase/bust.

I agree with this. Rooney should be the 4C and once Chytil is healthy enough, that should happen. Not sure if Chytil is just bad at faceoffs or is his injury holding him back?

He was at about 38% for his young career before his injury, so I don't think there's much room for it to get worse. =)

 

[Fitzy]

If this is in fact a lost season, and it is beginning to look that way, I'd rather the boys start learning a new scheme sooner rather than later in preparation for trying to make the playoffs next year.

I can say with pretty strong certainty that if the Rangers win a cup in the next decade, it isn't going to be with David Quinn at the helm.

 

[Kocur Dill]

I haven't, Gauthier has looked better but he doesn't bring anything special to the table. Atleast Lemieux is physical and can fight. Gauthier doesn't have a role on this team when Barron and Kravtsov arrive.

But does he? I know he had a fight the other day but his overall moxie on the ice looks lethargic.

Is that Quinn neutering him or his bromance with ADA causing a change of heart with his dedication to the teams well being.

He seriously looked more motivated to earn/stay in the top 9 2 seasons ago, now he looks as if he's going through the motions of his role, but not giving that extra.

I'm not getting that "heeve hoe" feeling from his on ice effort lately. Then again, much of the team is similar.

 

[LokiDog]

There's no roles. No one has a role on the team. Anybody can do anything... Another symptom of no structure..

28 year old Journey Man grinder? No problem, top6 and PP1 time for you. You'd make a great bumper.

30% face off man? No problem, go take that defensive zone draw against the other teams top line. Lets give our 3rd pair defense a chance as well.

A PP/PK just finished? lets put all of our players names in a hat and pick out some lines... it doesn't matter if there was a TV timeout.

20 seconds left on the PP? lets reward our 4th line.

Opposing team is tired and iced it? 4th line.. lets grind them down further.

Last change? Don't believe in it.

This is entirely too accurate.

 

[Crease]

If this is in fact a lost season, and it is beginning to look that way, I'd rather the boys start learning a new scheme sooner rather than later in preparation for trying to make the playoffs next year.

I can say with pretty strong certainty that if the Rangers win a cup in the next decade, it isn't going to be with David Quinn at the helm.

My sense is that Rangers would want to wait until the offseason, when the coaching market is largest.

 

[Edge]

@Edge is stirring the pot.... or honey potting us... either way, there's Edge and a pot.

I think it's possible. Knowing Yzerman and where that team is. I could see Larkin and Mantha moved, to solidify their chances for top picks ( Wright or Savoie ) and return top notch futures. It's good asset management imo... That's IF Yzerman is not confident Larkin will be there, long term.

There's chit-chat/growing rumblings that Yzerman isn't completely against the idea of moving Larkin to get multiple assets into the organization, and knowing that the two years between now and UFA status for Larkin might not see a ton of progress.

It's been speculated they likely want multiple pieces, particularly those that might be able to step in immediately.

 

[RGY]

I haven't, Gauthier has looked better but he doesn't bring anything special to the table. Atleast Lemieux is physical and can fight. Gauthier doesn't have a role on this team when Barron and Kravtsov arrive.

Gauthier is the far more valuable player overall, role or not on this team. He is the more talented player and he has absolutely been way more effective than Lemieux/Howden/PDG.

 

[NYblades]

There's chit-chat/growing rumblings that Yzerman isn't completely against the idea of moving Larkin to get multiple assets into the organization, and knowing that the two years between now and UFA status for Larkin might not see a ton of progress.

It's been speculated they likely want multiple pieces, particularly those that might be able to step in immediately.

Like Buchnevich and Chytil I presume?

 

[Ola]

If this is in fact a lost season, and it is beginning to look that way, I'd rather the boys start learning a new scheme sooner rather than later in preparation for trying to make the playoffs next year.

I can say with pretty strong certainty that if the Rangers win a cup in the next decade, it isn't going to be with David Quinn at the helm.

But the real concern for me is not that DQ is somewhat of an imposter, it’s that management hasn’t figured it out by yesterday. This is going on right under Gorton’s nose. Right under JD’s nose. Right under Drury’s nose.

That we changed to playing that style after the start we had, the TDA fiasco. It’s OK. It’s pure “hyper correction”, sometimes it’s necessary. The players buys into it. Start from there.

But the — ramifications — of DQ wanting to go back to what without single doubt is a totally fruitless approach, that certainly is the last system you want in place when you are developing young offensive talent, no, then you shouldn’t coach a NHL team. And the ramification 2.0 of us not playing that style at all anymore.

I mean, in NY these things can fly under the media radar. Our reporters just don’t know hockey, and media is more show business than anything else around the NHL. I’ve commented on this thing before. DQ was really emphasizing something on the PP last season, and Panarin and Ziba hit the ice and did the complete opposite. I mentioned it then, and this just reaffirms that the players just don’t trust him. And it also explains why he is so disappointed so often.

You make a bad trade, you make a bad draft pick, you pick the wrong coach, a coach fails to adjust, makes a move that back fires. Mistakes happen. But it’s really not good when nobody within the organization reacts to this. Lias was a bad pick with an inflated ego, but the real concern was that how nobody in the organization understood that it was not a good idea to rush an 18 y/o who had 122 games under his belt the last 12 calendar months shouldn’t have been rushed to the NHL when he wasn’t even remotely ready. You won’t strike 100%, but you shouldn’t think that an 18 y/o picked 7th in a so-so draft was NHL ready and you should be able to know that kids this young just must get a bit of a breathing room so that they can come in when they are prepared so that they can make themselves justice.

 

[Crease]

There's chit-chat/growing rumblings that Yzerman isn't completely against the idea of moving Larkin to get multiple assets into the organization, and knowing that the two years between now and UFA status for Larkin might not see a ton of progress.

It's been speculated they likely want multiple pieces, particularly those that might be able to step in immediately.

I read that to mean that Detroit thinks Larkin has pretty much peaked. At 25 years old, that could be right.