Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXIV: 2021: “The Fun has begun” or “Over & done”?

[True Blue]

Starting Keith Kinkaid is a bad and reactionary decision. He's been terrible for the last 2-3 years.

Pretty educated decision. Let's face it, Georgiev has been shaky during most of his play this year.

 

[SA16]

Georgy got lit last game, Kinkaid kept them in it as long as he could. If it was a different team they were playing, then maybe start Georgy. It's just a weird season and schedule. All I know is, I'm already tired of seeing Pittsburgh and they still have to face them 3 more times. lol.

Sure. That was last game. Now it's a new game. Having a bad game before doesn't mean he will have a bad game again. He's the #2 and considering it's not a back to back, and Igor isn't out long term, he should be playing basically every game since he is much better than Kinkaid.

 

[GAGLine]

Sure. That was last game. Now it's a new game. Having a bad game before doesn't mean he will have a bad game again. He's the #2 and considering it's not a back to back, and Igor isn't out long term, he should be playing basically every game since he is much better than Kinkaid.

If he had decided to start Georgiev, you'd be saying that was a bad decision based on how both goalies played on Sunday.

 

[SA16]

If he had decided to start Georgiev, you'd be saying that was a bad decision based on how both goalies played on Sunday.

No, I would be saying it is a good decision.

 

[Mandar]

No, I would be saying it is a good decision.

Right NOW, Kincaid is the better option. I couldnt give a shit how KK has been the last 2-3 years. Right NOW, Georgie isnt the best of the two.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

DeBrusk a healthy scratch for Boston tonight.

we're on the Island, not Broadway, final ever RS Appearance for Boston at NCMVC.....

 

[Mandar]

we're on the Island, not Broadway, final ever RS Appearance for Boston at NCMVC.....

why....in any stretch of your imagination....would anyone on the NYR board give a shit about this?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

why....in any stretch of your imagination....would anyone on the NYR board give a shit about this?

WHY IS Debrusk being mentioned on this board, then?

 

[bleedblue94]

Georgiev has played only 2 or 3 really good games this year. Why are we acting like this is benching Igor for Kincaid.

 

[pld459666]

Regarding the Lottery

I would make one change and one change only.

Any team that is bad enough long enough to be in the running to win the lottery multipletimes, should not have that limited. I highly doubt a teams focus and goal every year is to set out to win the f***ing draft lottery.

The only change id make is I'd do away with the 2nd and 3rd lotto winners and ensure that teams only move back 1 spot.

To those that are crying about the current set up. Simply put:

SHUT. THE. FUCH. UP.

Dumb muddafaukkers

 

[CupSeeker]

I want this team to get as high a pick as possible (cause we ain't winning shit this year) while having the young guys improve game over game. Next year we get serious about winning and ignoring our position in the next drafts.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

I've never seen the hype. He's good, capable of starting like journeying goalies. Parity since early 2000s is physical--athletes max out human capabilities and it's like freakish neurological outliers at the top.

 

[TominNC]

I want this team to get as high a pick as possible (cause we ain't winning shit this year) while having the young guys improve game over game. Next year we get serious about winning and ignoring our position in the next drafts.

We’re trading the pick for Eichel anyway, so I don’t care where it is. Let’s win some games. That’s more fun.

 

[mas0764]

Laff? Kakko? Fox? They're already fully developed? Where you getting the money to sign all these guys when y0u add 10m to the checkbook?

Of course they aren't fully developed but point is, asking "how many superstars do you need," is putting the cart before the horse. This team is not exactly stacked with star talent. And it has very little at center, actually, the most important position on the ice.

And I'm not particularly worried about the cap when it comes to a guy like Eichel. I do expect the cap to rise dramatically in the near future. This same argument was levied against the Panarin signing and I don't have any more inclination to fearmonger about it now than at that time. For a superstar, you do it.

The relevant question is, is Jack Eichel that level of player? That is where the price may come into question as well as the asset cost of acquisition. I think we are all against giving up Laf or Kakko but if the cost is Chytil, a roster player, a sub-Kravtsov prospect and a first, it's a deal the Rangers kind of have to make.

 

[True Blue]

The relevant question is, is Jack Eichel that level of player? That is where the price may come into question as well as the asset cost of acquisition. I think we are all against giving up Laf or Kakko but if the cost is Chytil, a roster player, a sub-Kravtsov prospect and a first, it's a deal the Rangers kind of have to make.

You are likely looking at Chytil, Buchnevich, a 1st and a Lunkdvist. It is more than a fair offer and one likely few teams can match.

Me? I am not looking to make that deal. Just creates too many holes in the roster and then you need to start to move around players under the cap to accomodate him. Not to mention build around him. Far from an exclamation point if such a deal was to be made. Rather a few more questions.

 

[mas0764]

You are likely looking at Chytil, Buchnevich, a 1st and a Lunkdvist. It is more than a fair offer and one likely few teams can match.

Me? I am not looking to make that deal. Just creates too many holes in the roster and then you need to start to move around players under the cap to accomodate him. Not to mention build around him. Far from an exclamation point if such a deal was to be made. Rather a few more questions.

It makes exactly one hole in the roster - from the departing Buch.

Chytil is filled by Eichel. Lundkvist isn't on the team (and in fact it has been speculated many times including by you that he's trade bait in favor of Schneider - who better to trade Lundkvist for than an elite 1C?). The first is a pure "future," as you say. Impacts future depth but it's a big time unknown.

I'm ok with creating that hole at RW for the upgrade at center. Kravtsov is on the way and Gauthier is deserving of more time as well. It's a trade off I'm willing to make.

I do think there is a trickle down that you are probably pretty quickly moving Strome and looking for a younger, cheaper 3C type.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Of course they aren't fully developed but point is, asking "how many superstars do you need," is putting the cart before the horse. This team is not exactly stacked with star talent. And it has very little at center, actually, the most important position on the ice.

And I'm not particularly worried about the cap when it comes to a guy like Eichel. I do expect the cap to rise dramatically in the near future. This same argument was levied against the Panarin signing and I don't have any more inclination to fearmonger about it now than at that time. For a superstar, you do it.

The relevant question is, is Jack Eichel that level of player? That is where the price may come into question as well as the asset cost of acquisition. I think we are all against giving up Laf or Kakko but if the cost is Chytil, a roster player, a sub-Kravtsov prospect and a first, it's a deal the Rangers kind of have to make.

I think not worrying about the cap is incredibly shortsighted. Especially when they are going to have to pony up big bucks for guys like Laf and Fox, with Kakko not too far behind. Where is this money coming from? How high and fast are you expecting the cap to rise?

I agree with you that center is the most important position on the ice and if you bring Eichel here, you will have exactly one out of four on your roster by the end of next season. Where are you getting #2 & 3 from? You've traded Chytil to Buffalo and Zib will sign elsewhere? What package can you offer for a young center when you've traded away three big time prospects and draft picks?

This team should stay as far away from Eichel as possible unless they want to morph into the Toronto Maple Leafs South.

 

[mas0764]

I think not worrying about the cap is incredibly shortsighted. Especially when they are going to have to pony up big bucks for guys like Laf and Fox, with Kakko not too far behind. Where is this money coming from? How high and fast are you expecting the cap to rise?

I agree with you that center is the most important position on the ice and if you bring Eichel here, you will have exactly one out of four on your roster by the end of next season. Where are you getting #2 & 3 from? You've traded Chytil to Buffalo and Zib will sign elsewhere? What package can you offer for a young center when you've traded away three big time prospects and draft picks?

This team should stay as far away from Eichel as possible unless they want to morph into the Toronto Maple Leafs South.

I expect the cap to rise dramatically. The TV revenue is going to like triple.

In the short term due to covid and due to TV deal still being a little ways off, things could get relatively tight but I do not think unmanageable. After that I think the Rangers are actually going to be in fantastic shape; as it's usually way easier to pay your own than to import talent from other teams in free agency. Teams will be operating with found money league-wide.

I don't even think it's unrealistic to foresee a scenario where you can re-sign Zibanejad and keep Eichel (and most of the other players you want). I think you are dramatically overselling how hard it will be to ice a team. Consider: We have Eichel's salary tied up right this second in Strome and DeAngelo basically. Move those two and it's break even. We aren't fretting about re-signing Fox, Kakko and Lafreniere just because Strome is on the roster, are we?

Though I do suspect in a number of years they may choose to move Zibanejad then, just because, better to get something from him in trade when he's 30.

Anyway, an Athletic article just addressed this the other day and it showed that it's all basically fine even with Eichel here.

 

[Blueshirts777]

This team should stay as far away from Eichel as possible unless they want to morph into the Toronto Maple Leafs South.

First in their division and a realistic shot at a Stanely Cup? Yeah god forbid

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I expect the cap to rise dramatically. The TV revenue is going to like triple.

In the short term due to covid and due to TV deal still being a little ways off, things could get relatively tight but I do not think unmanageable. After that I think the Rangers are actually going to be in fantastic shape; as it's usually way easier to pay your own than to import talent from other teams in free agency. Teams will be operating with found money league-wide.

I don't even think it's unrealistic to foresee a scenario where you can re-sign Zibanejad and keep Eichel (and most of the other players you want).

Though I do suspect in a number of years they may choose to move Zibanejad then, just because, better to get something from him in trade when he's 30.

I think you're being incredibly optimistic. And maybe a bit naive if you don't think Laf's and Fox's agents aren't going to want huge deals for their guys. Especially after seeing the Rangers bringing in a guy making 10m. And again, you'll have one good center on the team after next season and much less ammo (players, picks, and cap space) to go out and get the other two.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

First in their division and a realistic shot at a Stanely Cup? Yeah god forbid

In a shit division with a whole bunch of nothing to show for it so far.

 

[MetalJaws]

Does the game start at 6pm tonight?

 

[True Blue]

It makes exactly one hole in the roster - from the departing Buch.

Chytil is filled by Eichel. Lundkvist isn't on the team (and in fact it has been speculated many times including by you that he's trade bait in favor of Schneider - who better to trade Lundkvist for than an elite 1C?). The first is a pure "future," as you say. Impacts future depth but it's a big time unknown.

I'm ok with creating that hole at RW for the upgrade at center. Kravtsov is on the way and Gauthier is deserving of more time as well. It's a trade off I'm willing to make.

I do think there is a trickle down that you are probably pretty quickly moving Strome and looking for a younger, cheaper 3C type.

If you trade Chytil, then you are not trading Strome. There is NO ONE in the organization that is knocking on that door. Unless you are trying to trade him because you have Mika. But the latter is as good as gone the second you push the button on that deal. Which marries you to Strome (beyond his current contract) and leaves a crater at 3C.

The RW is not just a hole. It becomes a black hole Fine, Kakko is top-6. Gauthier? Kidding me, right? Kravstov? He is not remotely ready to contribute as a top-6 forward. In fact it may be another 2-5 years until he is. Just look at Buch.

To me that is just a trade off that is not necessary. The truly elite on this team are the wings and the D. That is who is going to take a lion's share of the camp. If you have such elite, drivers of play at wing, there is absolutely no need to have a play driving center. As we have seen with Panarin and Strome, when the chemistry works and you match a complimentary player with a high magnitude play driver, said complimentary player can rise above his level. IF the chemistry works and the complimentary player already has good skill levels.

I would much rather save the money, resign Buchnevich to a medium term deal, extend Strome to a medium term deal and kick the can down the road for a few years.

Again, make no mistake. In trading for Eichel, this instantly becomes a "win now" team. You now have 5 years left to win a Cup with him. And the roster is nowhere near completion.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Does the game start at 6pm tonight?

Yes for some bizarre reason. NBCSN is calling it "Happy Hour" or some nonsense.

 

[mas0764]

I think you're being incredibly optimistic. And maybe a bit naive if you don't think Laf's and Fox's agents aren't going to want huge deals for their guys. Especially after seeing the Rangers bringing in a guy making 10m. And again, you'll have one good center on the team after next season and much less ammo (players, picks, and cap space) to go out and get the other two.

Well, here are the numbers. With Eichel on the roster, you have $59m committed and $22m available to spend with no real pressing needs due to the youth that keeps coming up. Presume for a minute that the roster remains untouched - you have that much money to re-sign Buchnevich, Chytil, Gauthier, Howden, DiGiuseppe, Brendan Smith, Jack Johnson, Ryan Lindgren, Libor Hajek, and Igor Shesterkin. This cap space is counting DeAngelo - if his contract is terminated, that cap space becomes $26m+ instead.

I would also presume at least one of those names is out the door in the trade - either Buch or Chytil or both. For simplicity, let's assume Buch and Chytil both go in the trade, Strome stays to play 3C, and Kravtsov is called up to fill the RW roster spot (whether or not he can do this as well as Buch does is obviously up for debate and discovery).

So $26m. I'll keep running totals in parentheses.

Gauthier, Howden, DiGiuseppe, and Hajek get not much more than the minimum (~$4m). So does Kravtsov on an ELC (now at ~$5m). Smith and Jack Johnson both depart (hopefully). This leaves you at $22m or so with the need to re-sign Lindgren and Shesterkin to sizeable deals, plus fill in the margins with cheap replacements for Smith, Johnson, etc. I think you can actually use the flat cap in this situation to skip bridge deals for Lindgren and Shesterkin and sign them to very reasonable long term deals. Maybe $4m for Lindgren and $5m for Shesterkin. (We are now at about $12m in space).

Roster (lines are just throw together to get names down, not actually proposed as ideal lines):

Panarin - Zibanejad - Kakko
Lafreniere - Eichel - Kravtsov
Kreider - Strome - Gauthier
Lemieux - Howden - Blackwell
X: Rooney, PDG

Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Trouba
Hajek - _____ (? Reunanen? Bring up Robertson? Schneider? I'm presuming Lundkvist dealt for Eichel or that is his spot).
x: cheap 7th D

So this all works for 21-22 with ample space remaining (~$10m or so).

---------------

Moving on to 22-23:

Zibanejad, Strome, Lemieux, Kakko, Rooney, Blackwell, Fox and Georgiev have contracts expire. This frees up about $16m in space, plus the $10m we carried over from last season, for a total of about $26m.

Georgiev can be traded or allowed to walk. A cheap backup option is in the cards as Shesterkin has embedded himself as the starter on a long term deal most likely (~$25m left). Strome is probably also either traded or allowed to depart and another mid-tier 3C acquired somehow (let's say he commands a similar ~$5m salary). (~$20m left).

The big names to re-sign here will be Zibanejad, Fox, and Kakko, and there is $20m to play with. Zibanehad is probably not going to top $10m given this season unless he truly explodes next season. Kakko similarly given slow production his first two years is not going to command a megadeal.

Fox probably will get a sizeable deal. If you can get him on a solid long term contract, great, because that deal will soon start to look amazing as the cap explodes the following year. But I think it's entirely reasonable to suspect Zibanejad may be more along the lines of $7m-$8m, Kakko more like $4m. Can you get Fox locked up long term for $8m? Probably, if not less. If no, then you can bridge him and put off that fight to another day.

-----------

Too many variable to keep this exercise going, but the point is, things are not desperate. The following season, the cap begins to rise, with only Miller and Lafreniere as your big ticket re-signings.

I'm just not that worried. It's all doable.