Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXIV: 2021: “The Fun has begun” or “Over & done”?

[bleedblue94]

The way some of you want to hand out contracts to these kids completely negates the entire premise of controllable players and the benefits of having them. I mean some of you want to give out contracts as if this team has won two cups in three years and all these kids are established as elite level with no team control...

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I remember everyone saying the same thing about Rick Nash before we got him - salivating at what his point totals would be playing with Richards and Gaborik, and he ended up scoring at roughly the same pace. I can't back this up with tons of data and it's just my opinion, but as far as player's point totals go, I feel like it's usually what you see is what you get.

Rick Nash was older, played wing, never hit The career high that Eichel already has and was traded for almost nothing of value. The Rangers ended up getting Buch from that trade while the Blue Jackets walked away with pretty much nothing.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Rick Nash was older, played wing, never hit The career high that Eichel already has and was traded for almost nothing of value. The Rangers ended up getting Buch from that trade while the Blue Jackets walked away with pretty much nothing.

I'm not bashing the Nash trade - just saying that someone's point totals on a 'bad team' doesn't necessarily translate to their point totals rising on a 'good' or 'better' team.

 

[Calad]

Regarding the pending Lottery Changes:

I think 2 lottery slots instead of 3 makes plenty sense. Its rare that there are more than 2 players that are a clear cut above the the field (Matthews Laine, McDavid Eichel, Hughes Kakko, Dahlin Svech). This past draft with Laf Byfield Stutzle is an aberration.

Limiting lottery wins to 2 in 5 years, AKA the Edmonton Rule, is something that should've been in place a long time ago.

Limiting moving up in the lottery to only 10 spots: Stupid. Seems really arbitrary. Why are we drawing the line at 10? If you dont wan't bubble teams getting 1st overall pick, thats fine, but then limit the lottery to the top 10 teams or something. How you think a team is gonna feel when they win the lottery once being on the bubble only to move up to 4th overall, then the team falls apart and they are limited in their lottery chances in the coming seasons?

I am generally in favor of these changes. It's a better balance between preventing tanking and appropriately giving better talent to the worse teams. That being said, the league also needs to implement some sort of anti-competitive rules/guidelines. When a team is outright tanking and trying to lose it defrauds the rest of the league. I'm not sure how you would implement guidelines to follow, but much like the famous 1960s supreme court case about obscenity, its very much a I know it when I see it situation. I'm not talking about a team selling off pieces at the trade deadline, I'm talking about a GM intentionally creating a bad or uncompetitive roster with the apparent expectation of losing, or actively trying to sabotage a team. A few examples in recent history, like Colorado and their historically bad 2016-17 campaign of 48 points in 82 games (Detroit had 39 points in 71 games last season in a fight to try and beat this record). Or Buffalo a few years back, where the GM traded anything and everything that tried to win games for them (like the goalie that played lights out for 1 game then found himself on another team the next day). Or the McDavid/Eichel tankathon by Arizona/Buffalo/Edmonton/Toronto. I think this would have to be enforced collaboratively by the owners/GMs around the league, or some independent 3rd party, as I don't think anyone expects Bettman (or whatever lackey he puts in charge of this) to assess a situation like this in a fair manner as he has ulterior motives promoting small market teams, or his favorites (**** you Mario). Punishments could vary from bumping their pick down a number of slots/end of the round to completely forfeiting their 1st round pick.

The Rangers recent luck being the impetus for these changes? I don't see it. Rangers moved from 6 to 2 in 2019. In 2020 the lottery was f***ed because of covid, the league made those rules. Any number of teams winning that lottery would've caused an uproar. I think its more likely these rule changes are put in place due to a certain GM whining about his team's 'bad luck' (cough Yzerman cough)


Regarding said GM:

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I'm not bashing the Nash trade - just saying that someone's point totals on a 'bad team' doesn't necessarily translate to their point totals rising on a 'good' or 'better' team.

Maybe not, but Eichel is already a better player than Nash was so it’s not an apt comparison. Nash also never played with Panarin, which Eichel would have an opportunity to do so here. It’s not a vacuum.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Rick Nash was older, played wing, never hit The career high that Eichel already has and was traded for almost nothing of value. The Rangers ended up getting Buch from that trade while the Blue Jackets walked away with pretty much nothing.

Just to be clear, the jackets ended up getting panarin from the Rick nash trade. So not nothing.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Just to be clear, the jackets ended up getting panarin from the Rick nash trade. So not nothing.

Anisimov might have been part of that trade but he was NOT the deciding factor in bringing over Panarin. Saad was the main part of that trade.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Anisimov might have been part of that trade but he was NOT the deciding factor in bringing over Panarin. Saad was the main part of that trade.

Anisimov got them saad. saad got them panarin. its a pretty clear line.

 

[Off Sides]

Not sure if it was on purpose or not but 3 years after this one Trouba and Kreider only have M-NTC so I would bet if the kids work out one or both are traded so we can sign the younger guys. So if that's bridge deals in the meantime so be it. We still don't know who pans out and who doesn't.

Even without any clause, are teams really going to be wanting to trade for those player with their contracts, without either major retention or without sending back cap hits neither team really wants? Or do the Rangers have to attach assets they would rather keep to move them?

I mean I don't know for sure, yet usually big contracts to older players seem to only get traded for cap in cap out type deals, at least until they are in the final year of those contracts.

 

[Blueshirts777]

I remember everyone saying the same thing about Rick Nash before we got him - salivating at what his point totals would be playing with Richards and Gaborik, and he ended up scoring at roughly the same pace. I can't back this up with tons of data and it's just my opinion, but as far as player's point totals go, I feel like it's usually what you see is what you get.

He was on pace for 94 points last year before things shut down. Even if that's his ceiling that makes him a top 5 center.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Anisimov got them saad. saad got them panarin. its a pretty clear line.

The trade was Anisimov, Morin, Dano and Trop for Saad. And then years later he was traded for Panarin. Way too many other parts involved and degrees of separation.

 

[rangers1314]

Wonder if DQ rolls with Kinkad tonight

Kinkad starts tonight per DQ

 

[Fitzy]

I remember everyone saying the same thing about Rick Nash before we got him - salivating at what his point totals would be playing with Richards and Gaborik, and he ended up scoring at roughly the same pace. I can't back this up with tons of data and it's just my opinion, but as far as player's point totals go, I feel like it's usually what you see is what you get.

Yep.

Star players are line drivers, but putting multiple stars on a line very infrequently increases their production.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

He was on pace for 94 points last year before things shut down. Even if that's his ceiling that makes him a top 5 center.

Again, not my point. I'm only saying that 'on a bad team' is meaningless. If he's an 80-90 point player on BUF, that's probably what he'll be here.

 

[Leonardo87]

There's no GDT so posted here, think it's the right move..

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Again, not my point. I'm only saying that 'on a bad team' is meaningless. If he's an 80-90 point player on BUF, that's probably what he'll be here.

Sounds pretty good to me! It’s not that I’m expecting him to be a 200 point player on a better team, but that even when he plays on a team with at stinks he’s putting up massive points.

 

[RangersFan1994]

There's no GDT so posted here, think it's the right move..

he earned it. kept the Rangers in that game

 

[Leonardo87]

he earned it. kept the Rangers in that game

Agreed. I still think they lose that game even with Igor in net. D was parted more last game than Moses parting the Red Sea. lol

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

There's no GDT so posted here, think it's the right move..

Definitely the right move.

Even though I'm down on Georgiev, I still want him to play well obviously. Kinkaid getting the start shows how badly he fell on his face. Shesterkin getting injured was an opportunity for him to run as the starter and he took one step and pooped his pants and fell down. Now a guy who was out of the league and hasn't played half way decent at the NHL level since 2018 is starting over him.

If anything hopefully this ends the ridiculous notion of DQ thinking of Igor and Alex as close to equals. Maybe start Igor more than 3 games in a row for once? He can handle it.

 

[SA16]

Starting Keith Kinkaid is a bad and reactionary decision. He's been terrible for the last 2-3 years.

 

[rangers1314]

DeBrusk a healthy scratch for Boston tonight.

 

[Blueshirts777]

Is it really?

Honest question: We just played Buffalo. How many times were you concerned when Eichel was on the ice? This is just a huge concern with him. He can finish. But he doesn’t make players around him better.

He had 3 points in 3 games against the Rangers including 2 goals, a 28% shot percentage and a 57% faceoff percentage this season. I think it's ridiculous to not be concerned when he's on the ice and just his faceoff wins help the team without analyzing anything else. And it's also ridiculous to expect him to turn guys like Victor Oloffson into studs. That's why the bashing is ludicrous, it's getting to the point that narratives are being invented to reduce this guy from where he actually is talent wise.

 

[Leonardo87]

Starting Keith Kinkaid is a bad and reactionary decision. He's been terrible for the last 2-3 years.

Georgy got lit last game, Kinkaid kept them in it as long as he could. If it was a different team they were playing, then maybe start Georgy. It's just a weird season and schedule. All I know is, I'm already tired of seeing Pittsburgh and they still have to face them 3 more times. lol.

 

[True Blue]

Like I just said to Haveandre, they are going after him. They won’t trade Laf, Fox, Kakko but those aren’t the names we are discussing are we? Larry has reported that the Rangers are gung ho for him and the Rangers name is everywhere around his name. We know they even checked in on him last season. Edge put his personal belief at the trade possibility at a “8 or a 9.” This has Gorton MO written all over it. They may not get him, but if you think anyone but Laf, Kak, Shest and Fox are off limits you’d be mistaken. When Gorton zeroes in on a player like this he tends to make it happen.

When one says "all out" that implies that there are no limits. So is it "all out? or not? If latter, then what are the ramifications?

Uncle Larry reports a lot of things. First he said that the Rangers are going to the front of the line. He also stated that the Rangers are going to have to sacrifice Lafreniere. The very next article was that the Rangers are not going to let themselves be held over by a barrel.

Edge's statement was regarding if Eichel would be traded in general. Not anything to do with the Rangers specifically. And you can clearly see that writing on the wall. Being interested in a player is not mutually exclusive to running out and taking a sledge hammer to your roster to get him.

There is NOTHING here regarding Gorton's mo. Pro or con. Over the last I have no idea how many years the Rangers name has been associated with trade targets and UFAs. Under Gorton, rarely have any of them been correct. He tends to play his cards close to the best.

I am not mistaken about anything. You are right with your untouchable list and probably need to add Miller to it as well, but that is not even the important part. The important parts are that there are three costs. Cost to acquire, cost to move other players to accommodate and cost to build around him. That is a lot of cost. Could it be worth it? Depends on the payment extracted. From go, you are opening up gaping holes at center and at right wing.

Maybe not, but Eichel is already a better player than Nash was so it’s not an apt comparison. Nash also never played with Panarin, which Eichel would have an opportunity to do so here. It’s not a vacuum.

When both drive their lines, why is it necessary?

 

[Avery16]

Kinkaid played well, and put in good work in Hartford. Georgiev has been shaky. This is the right call.