Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXIV: 2021: “The Fun has begun” or “Over & done”?

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the prior year ottawa had the worst record and also dropped to 4th but traded away the pick...

there is no perfect solution to the draft lottery because there is no way to separate the teams tanking on purpose and the teams that are legit bad...if anything the lottery did EXACTLY what it was intended to do and didn't reward the red wings for tanking and not even trying to field a competitive team.

the new way will last 1 year before people complain about that...if the team with the worst record gets the pick people will say its encouraging tanking. if someone else gets it they will say its not fair...the only time anyone likes the lottery is when their team wins, then its just fine.

This is exactly right.

The existing system works in the sense of preventing teams from benefitting from purposely tanking. Now you want to limit better teams from getting too lucky via lottery? Then set up some sort of limitation on frequency of moving into top-3. Let's say you can't move up more than once every 2-3 years. Additionally, to prevent Edmonton situation set an overall limitation where a team cannot select in top-3 more than 3 times in 5 years.
 
How many superstars do you need? Maybe we should start by asking how many we currently have.

Hint: not enough.

Second hint: it’s just one and he’s currently on a leave of absence.

Laff? Kakko? Fox? They're already fully developed? Where you getting the money to sign all these guys when y0u add 10m to the checkbook?
 
I don't think most people think it's to screw over the Rangers.

I do think it being the Rangers lit a bit of a fire under the league's ass --- and they're not necessarily the only team that would've done so.

But I don't think you see this sense of urgency, especially with all the problems the league is facing, if Nashville wins.

The league has always been sensitive to protecting smaller market teams. The recent NY, Chicago and Philadelphia lottery wins exposed the issue a bit too much in their eyes.
 
NHL Memo "Are you a good and/or bubble team? You can't have Shane Wright"

These small market bad teams are going bankrupt, they need something to sell. I think the exact opposite tbh... I think if a player like McDavid went to a big market, it would help the sport grow.

You can bet your ass Stevie Y will be doing everything to get Shane Wright
 
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Brassard playing a real good game tonight against the Avs.

Has 10 points on the season now with a goal tonight. Youre telling me he wouldnt have been worth having over Howden. PDG? Rooney?

Cmon now...

he plays on the wing on the 3rd line with Kessel. Also is on their PP.

He’s not playing a defensive role there. I wouldn’t want to bring him here to take overly offensive roles. I would rather give that to a kid.
 
Is it really?

Honest question: We just played Buffalo. How many times were you concerned when Eichel was on the ice? This is just a huge concern with him. He can finish. But he doesn’t make players around him better.

On top of everything, he is paid a ton and would also cost assets in a trade. I can only speak for myself, but if Eichel was an UFA I wouldn’t want Gorton to give him the contract he has now. Hence I am definitely against trading for the same contract.
Exactly. He’ll score over the course of a season but doesn’t contribute much else. There’s a very good chance what we’d move for him is a net loss in scoring over a year and it’ll definitely be a loss of cap space, defense, hustle, etc.

A year from now or two when the team should be gearing up to make runs, does anyone honestly think it’s a good bet that Eichel alone is out producing some combo of players he could cost like Chytil, Buch, Lundkvist, etc combined? Never mind contributing more in other facets of the game. I don’t see that being very likely at all.
 
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he plays on the wing on the 3rd line with Kessel. Also is on their PP.

He’s not playing a defensive role there. I wouldn’t want to bring him here to take overly offensive roles. I would rather give that to a kid.
He has taken 170 Faceoffs this year. I would say he has taken his fair share of draws there.

@bleedblue94 I am not sure where he slots in right off the bat for the PP

Panarin-Strome-Kreider
Zib-Fox

Laf-Chytil-Kakko
Buch-Trouba

Maybe there isn’t room for him on the PP and thats still ok. He can be a PKer. He can provide depth and insurance. He plays hard. Plays with an edge. He competes. I dont see how he is more of the same.
 
I still think a player like Cirielli may become be available this offseason. We have high quality/cost controlled assets that Tampa Bay needs.

Even if Seattle takes Johnson, big IF, they still will be roughly 1M under the cap with 14 players on the roster. Still have too many spots to fill. They are truly in cap hell, this might be their 'last year' before a regroup.
 
Exactly. He’ll score over the course of a season but doesn’t contribute much else. There’s a very good chance what we’d move for him is a net loss in scoring over a year and it’ll definitely be a loss of cap space, defense, hustle, etc.

A year from now or two when the team should be gearing up to make runs, does anyone honestly think it’s a good bet that Eichel alone is out producing some combo of players he could cost like Chytil, Buch, Lundkvist, etc combined? Never mind contributing more in other facets of the game. I don’t see that being very likely at all.
He’s got a career high 82 points on a bad team and had 78 in 68 last year also on a bad team so will he be out producing guys with career highs of 46 (in 68) who is two years older than him and 23 (in 60) and one who hasn’t skated in an NHL game yet and spot might go to Schneider while playing center on a better team? I think the answer to that is probably. I know that Chytil is young and is having a good season but he’ll never be anywhere near to what Eichel is. Neither will Buch. And like I’ve said before, it’s not a question of should they try to get him. They are 100% going to go all out trying to get him if he becomes available.
 
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So a few years ago, the NBA floated an interesting option about the draft. Rather than basing the draft each year on performance, they talked about setting up a wheel where each team would get a shot at the number one overall every 30 years. Your pick would be fixed and would move up and down in the draft each year with a preset order. This way, if you traded a future pick you would know exactly where it was going to fall. The draft would be serpentine so if you had a high pick this year, you would have a low pick in the second round. Here's an old article I found about it.

The NBA Draft Wheel? - Sonics Rising

It would eliminate the whole idea of winning, losing and tanking for draft position. It would force everyone to try to be competitive every year.
Hate the fixed pick idea but love the idea of a snake draft.
 
You all see how difficult it is to pull off any kind of "non-trivial" trade in the NHL. I think Gorton's approach is exactly right where he's concentrating on prospect pool and building the team internally.

Seems that Zibanejad is coming around a bit and should at least reach his 0.9 ppg performance at some point this season. With Covid impact on the cap and his performance so far this season, it might be a better idea to hold on to him for 6 more years and some $8+m AAV than go after Eichel at $10m, but also then have Chytil on a cheap (relative to position) for the same 6 years and find "Stromes" as cheap reclamation projects to fill 3C when Strome price himself out on his next contract.
 
Totally different roles on different teams. You want Brassard running pk mins here instead of pp time there?
Actually yes. Have you seen Howden's stats this year? It is an embarrassment that this organization trots this guy out every night. He is not an NHL player. Has played 23 games this year and all he has is 2 freakin assists. No goals and is a minus 3. There is not one thing this guy does that is any good. I mean when was the last time you saw him handle a pass clean. We all talk about playing for the future but how are we benefiting anyone on this team with him on the ice every night, In no way is he contributing to the development of this team. The 13 minutes a game he is averaging is a waste of 13 minutes.
 
Actually yes. Have you seen Howden's stats this year? It is an embarrassment that this organization trots this guy out every night. He is not an NHL player. Has played 23 games this year and all he has is 2 freakin assists. No goals and is a minus 3. There is not one thing this guy does that is any good. I mean when was the last time you saw him handle a pass clean. We all talk about playing for the future but how are we benefiting anyone on this team with him on the ice every night, In no way is he contributing to the development of this team. The 13 minutes a game he is averaging is a waste of 13 minutes.
You just changed the point here to brassard vs howden when the original post I replied to had brassard sloted as our 3c with everyone healthy and strome on the wing. We have internal options better than howden but he is playing bc the coach likes him. Would you have paid a 2nd rounder for brassard? Would you realistically play brassard on a 4th line instead of howden when everyone is healthy?
 
He has taken 170 Faceoffs this year. I would say he has taken his fair share of draws there.

@bleedblue94 I am not sure where he slots in right off the bat for the PP

Panarin-Strome-Kreider
Zib-Fox

Laf-Chytil-Kakko
Buch-Trouba

Maybe there isn’t room for him on the PP and thats still ok. He can be a PKer. He can provide depth and insurance. He plays hard. Plays with an edge. He competes. I dont see how he is more of the same.
Brassard isn't a pker, and would you have paid a 2nd rounder for him? I hope not.

Our frustration with howden is well founded, but the issue isn't that we need brassard so howden doesn't play, we just need our coach to put rooney back on the 4th line and put blackwell back in the lineup to replace howden until panarin is back. The whole issue is Quinn's love for howden...
 
The league has always been sensitive to protecting smaller market teams. The recent NY, Chicago and Philadelphia lottery wins exposed the issue a bit too much in their eyes.
I think they were fine with the big market wins leading into the new TV deal. Now that the new one is wrapping up, they will go back to protecting small markets.
 
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He’s got a career high 82 points on a bad team and had 78 in 68 last year also on a bad team so will he be out producing guys with career highs of 46 (in 68) who is two years older than him and 23 (in 60) and one who hasn’t skated in an NHL game yet and spot might go to Schneider while playing center on a better team? I think the answer to that is probably. I know that Chytil is young and is having a good season but he’ll never be anywhere near to what Eichel is. Neither will Buch. And like I’ve said before, it’s not a question of should they try to get him. They are 100% going to go all out trying to get him if he becomes available.
“On a bad team” also means on a team where there’s zero competition for big offensive minutes. I think he’s a safe ppg player but I wouldn’t count on it increasing a ton on a better team. For Chytil and Buch I’m saying them combined will likely outscore Eichel, cost less and actually contribute in other parts of the game.

“Going all out” for Eichel is a terrible, terrible idea imo. He’s great at some things but they’re not the things this team needs most and you can’t trade the farm like this more than once
 
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Lets face it...we were a harder club to beat when we had Tony around even with his defensive lapses . But...that is how she goes and in the rear view these days .....unless they get him some help and he comes back LMAO...crazier things have happened ! Maybe the next coach would /could handle him and actually value him ....who knows ? It's been a crazy year...anything goes .
The chances of DeAngelo coming back to the Rangers in any capacity is on par with seeing the starting lineup tonight with Messier in it.
 
They are 100% going to go all out trying to get him if he becomes available.
1) Being interested in a player is not the same thing as robbing Peter to pay Paul to get him.
2) All out? Then why not simply package a Lafreniere and a Fox? Bet you that gets Eichel driven here personally by Buffalo management.

Eichel is a wonderful player. And in a vacuum and with blinders on, you run out and make the deal. But once you exit the vacuum and take the blinders off and examine what the landscape now looks like, you will find that you may not like the view. This is a right player, wrong time type of scenario. Trading for Eichel will deliver short term pleasure and inflict long term pain.
 
“On a bad team” also means on a team where there’s zero competition for big offensive minutes. I think he’s a safe ppg player but I wouldn’t count on it increasing a ton on a better team. For Chytil and Buch I’m saying them combined will likely outscore Eichel, cost less and actually contribute in other parts of the game.

“Going all out” for Eichel is a terrible, terrible idea imo. He’s great at some things but they’re not the things this team needs most and you can’t trade the farm like this more than once
Terrible idea or not it’s gonna happen so really no point in hoping they don’t. Fait acompli.
 
He’s got a career high 82 points on a bad team and had 78 in 68 last year also on a bad team so will he be out producing guys with career highs of 46 (in 68) who is two years older than him and 23 (in 60) and one who hasn’t skated in an NHL game yet and spot might go to Schneider while playing center on a better team? I think the answer to that is probably. I know that Chytil is young and is having a good season but he’ll never be anywhere near to what Eichel is. Neither will Buch. And like I’ve said before, it’s not a question of should they try to get him. They are 100% going to go all out trying to get him if he becomes available.

I remember everyone saying the same thing about Rick Nash before we got him - salivating at what his point totals would be playing with Richards and Gaborik, and he ended up scoring at roughly the same pace. I can't back this up with tons of data and it's just my opinion, but as far as player's point totals go, I feel like it's usually what you see is what you get.
 
1) Being interested in a player is not the same thing as robbing Peter to pay Paul to get him.
2) All out? Then why not simply package a Lafreniere and a Fox? Bet you that gets Eichel driven here personally by Buffalo management.

Eichel is a wonderful player. And in a vacuum and with blinders on, you run out and make the deal. But once you exit the vacuum and take the blinders off and examine what the landscape now looks like, you will find that you may not like the view. This is a right player, wrong time type of scenario. Trading for Eichel will deliver short term pleasure and inflict long term pain.
Like I just said to Haveandre, they are going after him. They won’t trade Laf, Fox, Kakko but those aren’t the names we are discussing are we? Larry has reported that the Rangers are gung ho for him and the Rangers name is everywhere around his name. We know they even checked in on him last season. Edge put his personal belief at the trade possibility at a “8 or a 9.” This has Gorton MO written all over it. They may not get him, but if you think anyone but Laf, Kak, Shest and Fox are off limits you’d be mistaken. When Gorton zeroes in on a player like this he tends to make it happen.
 
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