Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXIV: 2021: “The Fun has begun” or “Over & done”?

[mas0764]

I wouldn’t honestly. Chytil + for Eichel is not going to age well at all within the structure of this team

I think the Eichel bashing is getting a little carried away.

 

[mas0764]

The thing about the Eichel trade is that it's not going to be one trade. It's going to be two. One for Eichel and one for the center you need to bring in to replace Chytil and Zib. That deep pipeline would suddenly become much more shallow. I'd pass on Eichel. How many superstars do you want/need? Bringing him in would deplete the prospect pool and wreck their salary cap.

How many superstars do you need? Maybe we should start by asking how many we currently have.

Hint: not enough.

Second hint: it’s just one and he’s currently on a leave of absence.

 

[RGY]

Brassard playing a real good game tonight against the Avs.

Has 10 points on the season now with a goal tonight. Youre telling me he wouldnt have been worth having over Howden. PDG? Rooney?

Cmon now...

 

[mas0764]

This idea has always intrigued me.

The first team eliminated has the inside track on the 1OA, but full on tanking has you picking like 6th.
"The team with the 3rd worst record due to bad injury luck, but gets everyone back from injury although way too late to make the playoffs" would actually have something huge to play for over the last few weeks of the season.

It's a much more fair anti-tanking measure than a "pick a card, any card" lottery.

This is an interesting idea.

 

[haveandare]

I think the Eichel bashing is getting a little carried away.

I don't think he's a bad player at all in a vacuum, but swapping Chytil and a lot more out for him isn't wise and imo is too likely not to work out.

You lose Chytil and end up with Eichel, Mika, Strome and Howden. Mika wants a pricey extension in a year and either you give it to him, which is dicey both because of his injury history and because of what the cap structure would look like with Eichel added to Panarin, Trouba, Kreider, etc. or you don't give it to him and you roll with Eichel, Strome and Howden. Strome, who is 27 and not that great, and Howden who is barely a 4C. Maybe you can trade for a good middle 6 center, but if you've already lost, say Lundkvist, this year's first, what are you moving for a quality center?

Eichel is good. I'm not at all convinced this team is built to swap Chytil+ out for him and end up better for it long term.

 

[bobbop]

Kind of funny how Fenton was thrown out like a garbage bag full of diaper because he inspired no confidence but the initially criticized Fiala for Granlund deal has worked out well and the Lizard Zucc signing is also looking great so far.

Go read Mike Russo's story from last summer on Fenton. An incredibly bad GM who pissed off just about everybody in the organization.

 

[Fitzy]

I think the Eichel bashing is getting a little carried away.

Maybe.

But I do think there needs to be some pushback to the attitude that a quantity for quality trade needs to happen right now. We don’t currently have a roster with too much depth and not enough elite talent, the opposite is actually the current problem.

So why do we think trading a lot of depth pieces for another star player is the solution? I’m not getting it

 

[bobbop]

So a few years ago, the NBA floated an interesting option about the draft. Rather than basing the draft each year on performance, they talked about setting up a wheel where each team would get a shot at the number one overall every 30 years. Your pick would be fixed and would move up and down in the draft each year with a preset order. This way, if you traded a future pick you would know exactly where it was going to fall. The draft would be serpentine so if you had a high pick this year, you would have a low pick in the second round. Here's an old article I found about it.

The NBA Draft Wheel? - Sonics Rising

It would eliminate the whole idea of winning, losing and tanking for draft position. It would force everyone to try to be competitive every year.

 

[E-Train]

Go read Mike Russo's story from last summer on Fenton. An incredibly bad GM who pissed off just about everybody in the organization.

Wow. Great article. Sabotaged himself

 

[Ola]

I think the Eichel bashing is getting a little carried away.

Is it really?

Honest question: We just played Buffalo. How many times were you concerned when Eichel was on the ice? This is just a huge concern with him. He can finish. But he doesn’t make players around him better.

On top of everything, he is paid a ton and would also cost assets in a trade. I can only speak for myself, but if Eichel was an UFA I wouldn’t want Gorton to give him the contract he has now. Hence I am definitely against trading for the same contract.

 

[haohmaru]

How many superstars do you need? Maybe we should start by asking how many we currently have.

Hint: not enough.

Second hint: it’s just one and he’s currently on a leave of absence.

Third hint: Our non "superstar" 1C has basically identical numbers to the certain "superstar" that we're talking about over the past three seasons and nobody is questioning his will or work ethic.

 

[NYSPORTS]

I think the Eichel bashing is getting a little carried away.

Bipolar emotions. So much praise and now the opposite. Hmmm

 

[Flan the incredible]

I think the Eichel bashing is getting a little carried away.

I think the extreme infatuation and overrating of Eichel is getting a little out of hand. People are acting like he is a top 5 Center or a top 5 talent in the entire league and he isn't. Top 10 center discussion sure but not top 5. Great player dont get me wrong but its getting a bit ridiculous.

 

[NYSPORTS]

So a few years ago, the NBA floated an interesting option about the draft. Rather than basing the draft each year on performance, they talked about setting up a wheel where each team would get a shot at the number one overall every 30 years. Your pick would be fixed and would move up and down in the draft each year with a preset order. This way, if you traded a future pick you would know exactly where it was going to fall. The draft would be serpentine so if you had a high pick this year, you would have a low pick in the second round. Here's an old article I found about it.

The NBA Draft Wheel? - Sonics Rising

It would eliminate the whole idea of winning, losing and tanking for draft position. It would force everyone to try to be competitive every year.

yikes - i don’t like it. Imo, the whole idea of the draft is for the worst team to get the most help as they can’t win and aren’t trying to lose.

 

[NYSPORTS]

so if Eichel dressed for Carolina, Philly, Boston or Jersey nobody would mind?

 

[Synergy27]

I think the Eichel bashing is getting a little carried away.

The questions about Eichel have nothing to do with his offensive talent. That talent is elite.

The question is, does he have, or will he ever have, the complete game that is required to lead a modern NHL team in the playoffs? I have serious doubts about that.

Zibanejad (last year’s version) is a better player than Eichel. He positively affects the game in all facets when he is going good. Eichel may have a slightly larger positive effect in the offensive zone when he is on, but that small advantage is negated by his deficiencies elsewhere in my opinion.

Chytil is blossoming into the possession beast everyone here has been waiting for. Buchnevich is a premier two way winger in the league. And we’re talking about adding a 1st AND one of the better prospects not in the NHL to that package? No thanks.

Yes, something has to give with our prospect pool but Eichel isn’t the key to unlocking this puzzle.

 

[Leetch3]

Maybe.

But I do think there needs to be some pushback to the attitude that a quantity for quality trade needs to happen right now. We don’t currently have a roster with too much depth and not enough elite talent, the opposite is actually the current problem.

So why do we think trading a lot of depth pieces for another star player is the solution? I’m not getting it

I agree with this in that there is a valid argument/discussion to be made...but it depends on how the argument is being made. If the topic is the pros and cons of adding an elite 1C that hurts depth because of the assets required and the cap hit vs a good center with more depth. I think there are good arguments to bad for both scenarios....but if the counter argument is that eichel 'isn't that good' than thats just silly. whether or not eichel is an elite 1C shouldn't be a question....whether or not he fits the team we are trying to build can be...

 

[Off Sides]

My take, 10M for 5 years is a long, expensive time if it does not work, or even if it just works okay.

I think the Rangers picked their expensive contracts already, Panarin, Trouba and Kreider come in at like 26M total.

Shesterkin is 25 and will probably be looking at 4-5M on his next deal if the Rangers go long term buying up UFA years. Fox probably more.

So about 36M in 5 players over the next 3 years, can they really add Eichel and go to 46M, more than half the cap on 6 players and still pay Kakko, Laf, Miller, etc when their entry levels end? Or are they all getting bridges and it gets pushed down the line for a couple years?

Or would they be setting themselves up to have to make some cap casualties out of the current youth while being forced to keep the 30-31-32 year old vets due to clauses, or them just having contracts no other team will touch?

I have the same question even if it were Zbad getting a large next contract. At some point someone who would get a large next contract is going to have to go if they can not get rid of a large contract they already gave out.

 

[bleedblue94]

Brassard playing a real good game tonight against the Avs.

Has 10 points on the season now with a goal tonight. Youre telling me he wouldnt have been worth having over Howden. PDG? Rooney?

Cmon now...

Totally different roles on different teams. You want Brassard running pk mins here instead of pp time there?

 

[Flan the incredible]

My take, 10M for 5 years is a long, expensive time if it does not work, or even if it just works okay.

I think the Rangers picked their expensive contracts already, Panarin, Trouba and Kreider come in at like 26M total.

Shesterkin is 25 and will probably be looking at 4-5M on his next deal if the Rangers go long term buying up UFA years. Fox probably more.

So about 36M in 5 players over the next 3 years, can they really add Eichel and go to 46M, more than half the cap on 6 players and still pay Kakko, Laf, Miller, etc when their entry levels end? Or are they all getting bridges and it gets pushed down the line for a couple years?

Or would they be setting themselves up to have to make some cap casualties out of the current youth while being forced to keep the 30-31-32 year old vets due to clauses, or them just having contracts no other team will touch?

I have the same question even if it were Zbad getting a large next contract. At some point someone who would get a large next contract is going to have to go if they can not get rid of a large contract they already gave out.

Not sure if it was on purpose or not but 3 years after this one Trouba and Kreider only have M-NTC so I would bet if the kids work out one or both are traded so we can sign the younger guys. So if that's bridge deals in the meantime so be it. We still don't know who pans out and who doesn't.

 

[Crease]

Go read Mike Russo's story from last summer on Fenton. An incredibly bad GM who pissed off just about everybody in the organization.

Russo is one of the better writers in the sport.

 

[Cag29]

The questions about Eichel have nothing to do with his offensive talent. That talent is elite.

The question is, does he have, or will he ever have, the complete game that is required to lead a modern NHL team in the playoffs? I have serious doubts about that.

Zibanejad (last year’s version) is a better player than Eichel. He positively affects the game in all facets when he is going good. Eichel may have a slightly larger positive effect in the offensive zone when he is on, but that small advantage is negated by his deficiencies elsewhere in my opinion.

Chytil is blossoming into the possession beast everyone here has been waiting for. Buchnevich is a premier two way winger in the league. And we’re talking about adding a 1st AND one of the better prospects not in the NHL to that package? No thanks.

Yes, something has to give with our prospect pool but Eichel isn’t the key to unlocking this puzzle.

Let’s stick with what we have. Let’s get Kravstov and Lundkvist in here next season and Schneider and Robertson and Jones. See what we have and then adjust. By then Barron and Cuylle may need consideration as well.

 

[RGY]

Totally different roles on different teams. You want Brassard running pk mins here instead of pp time there?

Oh cmon I mean these are just excuses to not have a cheap bottom 6 vet who still has his legs and can chip in offensively. I do think he can PK here. He has done it before. And I do think he would slot in well as the 3C. He at 50% on the faceoff dot. And what is the problem with him on PP2?

Lafreniere-Zib-Buch
Panarin-Chytil-Kakko
Kreider-Brassard-Strome
Lemmy-Rooney/Howden-Gauthier/Blackwell

That top 9 makes us much more effective.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Oh cmon I mean these are just excuses to not have a cheap bottom 6 vet who still has his legs and can chip in offensively. I do think he can PK here. He has done it before. And I do think he would slot in well as the 3C. He at 50% on the faceoff dot. And what is the problem with him on PP2?

Lafreniere-Zib-Buch
Panarin-Chytil-Kakko
Kreider-Brassard-Strome
Lemmy-Rooney/Howden-Gauthier/Blackwell

That top 9 makes us much more effective.

Brass doesn't solve the issues that exist with this team.

Another player who blends right in with the homogenous group of forwards we already have. We need to stop acquiring players like him and actually, need to ship out a few that we already have for players with more diverse (or just flat out different) tool kits.

When this team is healthy, who would he take pp2 time away from?

 

[bleedblue94]

Oh cmon I mean these are just excuses to not have a cheap bottom 6 vet who still has his legs and can chip in offensively. I do think he can PK here. He has done it before. And I do think he would slot in well as the 3C. He at 50% on the faceoff dot. And what is the problem with him on PP2?

Lafreniere-Zib-Buch
Panarin-Chytil-Kakko
Kreider-Brassard-Strome
Lemmy-Rooney/Howden-Gauthier/Blackwell

That top 9 makes us much more effective.

So you automatically think strome is as productive on the wing where he hasn't played in 3 years?

Who is Brassard displacing on pp2? Laf, Kakko? He is in chytil role in arz, not howden's...