Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXIII: Smell a smaller trade incoming?

[effen]

Some people are focusing on the granular ADA trade value difference which is marginal if anything at best against what a strong organization does, which is not tolerate that kind of bullshit. I guarantee the effect it had on the room and league wide is far more beneficial than some PR strat that might garner an extra mid round draft pick or something

Edit: I don't think ADA had any trade value whatsoever in any capacity to a fair amount of teams in the league even before all this. Guys get Do Not Draft grades for example, even top 5 guys. There was a great interview with Brian Burke where he did just that with Nail Yakupov, yanno, the #1 overall pick that year.

 

[I Eat Crow]

We don't need ADA anyway. Max Kondratiev should be coming over next year to pair with Tyutin.

Pavel Valentenko may have something to say about that...

 

[SRHRangers]

Ugh. Bringing up Marc Savard made me go down memory lane of the 1999 Draft.

As bad as that Brendl trade and pick was, Smith to move up 2 freaking spots in that first round, gave up Marc Savard.

F*ck you Jaime Lundmark lol

 

[Avery16]

Ugh. Bringing up Marc Savard made me go down memory lane of the 1999 Draft.

As bad as that Brendl trade and pick was, Smith to move up 2 freaking spots in that first round, gave up Marc Savard.

F*ck you Jaime Lundmark lol

Let's not blame Lundmark or Brendl for those trades. They were so bad, I dont know if even Lundmark or Brendl would have recommended them.

 

[effen]

Ugh. Bringing up Marc Savard made me go down memory lane of the 1999 Draft.

As bad as that Brendl trade and pick was, Smith to move up 2 freaking spots in that first round, gave up Marc Savard.

F*ck you Jaime Lundmark lol

Savard was a malcontent even then lol

 

[BKGooner]

screw him. how about colton orr? or even matt barnaby?

Totally agree. A legit heavyweight is not really needed in the league today. A good middleweight from 20-25 years ago who could take a regular shift would boss every tough guy in the NHL today. Maybe I give Reaves a pass on that one, but he couldn't skate 15-20 shifts against that hypothetical player. It's what makes Wilson valuable.

 

[SRHRangers]

Let's not blame Lundmark or Brendl for those trades. They were so bad, I dont know if even Lundmark or Brendl would have recommended them.

I don't even mind the Brendl one. Sunny was a solid role player and nothing else and Cloutier wasn't special.

I remember screaming out "WTF" when I heard Savards name in the Lundmark trade.

 

[BKGooner]

Let's not blame Lundmark or Brendl for those trades. They were so bad, I dont know if even Lundmark or Brendl would have recommended them.

The funny thing about that first round is that if you didn't get a Sedin you were screwed.

 

[leetch99]

Teams were well aware of the Tony situation --- with or without the proclamation --- he's done here.

In talking with people around the league it changed nothing.

And that became immediately apparent when teams did their due diligence.

I am confused .....So....the Rangers were the only ones that never did their "due diligence" then ? They signed him for two years at 4.8...when they knew he was impossible to move . If such was the case, why give him 2 years and 9.6 ? Why overpay for a guy you can't move ? Last question....what was the lowest offer the Rangers HAD to make to him to retain him ? It looks to me that he was not offered to anyone in the Summer since they gave him more than needed and he was part of Gorton's moving forward plan that blew up in his face . Gorton looks bad in the whole deal...not just Tony !

 

[leetch99]

He was terrible since before the bubble so i dont know how we're worse off, as soon as Zib and Panarin cooled his points vanished and all we were left with was a dman who can't play defense.

AND.....two forwards that could not score !

 

[Ola]

Some people are focusing on the granular ADA trade value difference which is marginal if anything at best against what a strong organization does, which is not tolerate that kind of bullshit. I guarantee the effect it had on the room and league wide is far more beneficial than some PR strat that might garner an extra mid round draft pick or something

Edit: I don't think ADA had any trade value whatsoever in any capacity to a fair amount of teams in the league even before all this. Guys get Do Not Draft grades for example, even top 5 guys. There was a great interview with Brian Burke where he did just that with Nail Yakupov, yanno, the #1 overall pick that year.

Care to expand a bit on the positive effects on the room? What do you think would have happened if we didn’t do this?

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Pavel Valentenko may have something to say about that...

Zvachin is also knocking at the door. He was partying all night. With Bereglazov.

 

[effen]

Gorton's biggest mistake with ADA was gambling on talent maturing and that doesn't seem very bad afaict.

 

[effen]

Care to expand a bit on the positive effects on the room? What do you think would have happened if we didn’t do this?

A big source of instability was removed. If you refuse to deal with it, the cascade gets guys to quit on the team eventually. Then everyone gets fired. That's bad.

This isn't a simple personality clash, dude must have been unbearable for ages to half the room to get exiled. Coke addicts and legitimately crazy people have been better tolerated than what we just saw. On this board it's only because a bunch of peoples personal mascot got domed that anyone cares. It's weird that it's still a thing.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

yes it was. so you sit him the 3rd period and then move the f*** on. its not like the team around him was playing any better.

He sat half a season...that didnt work.

 

[Ola]

Effen-

I just don’t buy the talk about how you can’t take any crap, can’t tolerate misbehavior or disrespect, These kids like Kakko or Laf and co — they are super professionals. Would they all of a sudden become gang bangers just because TDA disrespected DQ?

To me that sounds very much like a NCAA/College thing. I’ve followed this league like almost 30 years, it’s just not something I recognize at all in pro hockey. There are few examples. Lately Riberio and Richards comes to mind. But often these things are connected to a very long and very problematic background, rumored substance abuse issues and so forth.

This is also probably a reason for why there is no market for TDA. When someone is kicked off a team like this, they assume there is something really horrible in the background. Not just a player not getting along with the coach like is the case here.

 

[Avery16]

I don't even mind the Brendl one. Sunny was a solid role player and nothing else and Cloutier wasn't special.

I remember screaming out "WTF" when I heard Savards name in the Lundmark trade.

We went through goalie hell after that while Cloutier was starting and putting up fine numbers for TB and Van. Sundstrom was a great middle six player.

 

[Avery16]

Pavel Valentenko may have something to say about that...

That's who I was forgetting.

 

[Ola]

A big source of instability was removed. If you refuse to deal with it, the cascade gets guys to quit on the team eventually. Then everyone gets fired. That's bad.

This isn't a simple personality clash, dude must have been unbearable for ages to half the room to get exiled. Coke addicts and legitimately crazy people have been better tolerated than what we just saw. On this board it's only because a bunch of peoples personal mascot got domed that anyone cares. It's weird that it's still a thing.

Oki, so it’s only because some individuals without reason had a thing for TDA that it’s an issue that he was kicked of the team? Got it.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Its undeniably Tony's fault for being immature and unprofessional. However it is not Tony's fault for mismanaging the situation and causing the GM to react so thoughtlessly that they tanked his trade value entirely.

No one wanted him for cap dumps He had/has/likely will always have no suitors. No one in the AHL wants.

 

[Ola]

@effen BTW, you say that a big source of instability to the lockerroom was removed. Why do you say that? Like Marc Staal said that he didn’t believe that this ever had been the case at all.

To be honest, I sounds like (a) you haven’t followed this team very closely. We have a top 5 scorer for the first time in ages, he is young, no Jagr, and you ask why it’s even a thing that people care that he is kicked of the team?? (b) Staal, Trouba, Ziba, Strome and co have all come out and without exception praised TDA as a good teammate and a good friend. Gorton himself has stated that he had to deal with TDA because he had issues with DQ.

 

[duhmetreE]

Like most trade possibilities, with Eichel it's all about the cost. I'd love him as this teams #1C for the next 10 years. If the cost is Lafreniere/Kaako + then it's a hard no. If the cost is secondary assets that they feel they can replenish through other means than it's a yes. His $10m contract is high but it's not really high for a #1C.

I'll say this, Gorton and his team have a pipeline full of assets they can use. If the team really likes Buchnevich and his development this season and want to keep him around for 4-5 years, then Kravtsov to me is the centerpiece of the deal.

I'd be reluctant to give over Lundqvist. RD is just such a prime position that I'd prefer to hold onto him a bit longer. I also wouldn't mind seeing either Schneider or Lundqvist playing the left side eventually.

Kids like Robertson, Jones, Barron, Howden, Gauthier, Lemieux are secondary pieces but there are teams out there who more than likely have followed their development and like them as players. Buffalo drafted Lemieux originally so he was obviously liked enough at that point to be a high 2nd rounder.

Even if the team likes Buch, I cant see a scenario where he's here with Eichel.

IMO if the Rangers make a deal for Eichel, Strome and Buch is the starting point for the package. It offsets the salary and Buffalo gets 2 solid-good NHL players. It'd become too convoluted any other way.


It really is not a secret

TB - Point, Cirielli, Paquette
STL - ROR, Bozak, Sundqvist
WAS - Backstrom, Eller, Beagle
PITx2 - Crosby, Bonino, Cullen
CHI - Toews, Vermette, Shaw

Eichel, Zibs, Chytil might be good enough IF Chytil and/or Eichel truly develop their 2way game.

I do not think he's the 'missing' piece. He'd have to cost Strome, Buch, Lundkvist and a 1st ( add in Jones, Howden, Lemieux, Gauthier to their liking). The only way I'd be on board for the trade. Eichel would be directly upgrading Strome. If he replaces Zibs, we are not going to be winning any time soon until we get some good 2way centers. Pray Zibs takes a discount after this disaster of a season and turns it around.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

...

 

[SRHRangers]

Guys, look, he was an obnoxious little greaseball. Let's talk about Eichel.

There's no need for that.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Even if the team likes Buch, I cant see a scenario where he's here with Eichel.

IMO if the Rangers make a deal for Eichel, Strome and Buch is the starting point for the package. It offsets the salary and Buffalo gets 2 solid-good NHL players. It'd become too convoluted any other way.


It really is not a secret

TB - Point, Cirielli, Paquette
STL - ROR, Bozak, Sundqvist
WAS - Backstrom, Eller, Beagle
PITx2 - Crosby, Bonino, Cullen
CHI - Toews, Vermette, Shaw

Eichel, Zibs, Chytil might be good enough IF Chytil and/or Eichel truly develop their 2way game.

I do not think he's the 'missing' piece. He'd have to cost Strome, Buch, Lundkvist and a 1st ( add in Jones, Howden, Lemieux, Gauthier to their liking). The only way I'd be on board for the trade. Eichel would be directly upgrading Strome. If he replaces Zibs, we are not going to be winning any time soon until we get some good 2way centers. Pray Zibs takes a discount after this disaster of a season and turns it around.

Fairest allotment I've seen. Bet Lemieux, Buffalo-drafted, reminds them of M. Foligno...

Somehow I think it'd mean Kakko anyhow.