Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXII: Stepping up in a Perfect Storm?

[eco's bones]

Deservedly so....he is a p***y . In the scuffle behind te Ranger net after a whistle there was a few words exchanged between Morin and I can't remember the Ranger Dman....Gauthier just looked the other way not one bit interested in getting into a Flyer's face....the stuff he needs to start doing . Brodzinski has to be the poorest quality player we have had in a few years .....just terrible .

Morin is huge (a former 1st rounder if I remember right). He hasn't really developed well but the one thing he does well is beat people up. Gauthier of course should grab him but the one thing he shouldn't do is try to fight him because it's likely he'll get killed.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I think the performance of Strome, Zibanejad, and Chytil in the final 2/3rds of the season is going to have a lot of sway in management's decisions this offseason.

Filip looked like he was just starting to figure it out before his injury. He has the potential to be the kind of puck-lugging center up the middle of the ice that this team hasn't had in a long time. Great for the transition game.

I still think they will look for another center at some point, its unlikely Strome is here after the next deadline, its possible Zib prices himself out of here too. I just don't think we are at a point where we decide to move out a Lafreniere or Kakko who are cost controlled for a 10+ mill player considering the contracts we have already or the ones we will need to sign in the future. A guy like Barrett Hayton, id give up some assets for him.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Keeping everything as is going into next years means they’re not going to be a playoff team

at some point management has to address the holes on the roster. Them bringing back the same roster this year is blowing up in their faces

They will be adding a good bit this offseason one way or another. $8M buyout hit, $6M performance bonus hit, $8M Smith and DeAngelo freeing up to be reinvested. Some of that $ will be put back into the roster one way or another.

 

[Trxjw]

Because he's getting paid big money to be part of the solution. Imo he isn't a captain, he's bailing on a team that has tried to surround him with players since he got there. I mean they added Hall and Staal this season, signed Skinner to that dumb deal to make him happy and now he wants to bail....honestly i love his skill set but i don't know if he is worth the price it will take to aquire him. If we were trading for Matthews, McDavid or Mackinnon id do it every day, but to me there's something about a captain getting paid 10 mill as the face of the franchise complaining about losing so much. Do something about it.

What more do you expect the guy to do? Mathews has Tavares, Marner, and Nylander as a supporting cast. Neither McDavid nor MacKinnon were able to carry their team to winning seasons until the roster filled in adequately around them. This isn't basketball where one guy can carry a franchise on his shoulders. Hockey requires a competent roster in order for a team to be successful and Eichel hasn't had one in his entire tenure with the Sabres.

Eichel has been arguably a top-5 center in the NHL for the last several seasons on a bottom-10 team. He's been over a PPG with absolute crap around him. Buffalo has given him f***-all to work with. Eichel isn't even the first guy in the last several years to quit on Buffalo because of the losing. Ryan O'Reilly said he was sick of losing, forced a trade -- one in which the Sabres got scraps in return -- and won a cup literally the next season. That's the kind of shit Eichel has to deal with.

 

[MetalJaws]

How does he have a loser mentality if the primary reason he's unhappy with the Buffalo situation is because they're always losing?

As the leader of the Sabres for 6 years he has shown no ability to get his team to even finish a season without looking completely dejected with 20 or so games left. That's with solid rosters and tons of high quality picks. He's a selfish and poor defensive type player who clearly doesn't have control of the room based off how negative the attitude of the organization is. Not making the playoffs or even coming close after all these high picks, coaches and gm's is a bad look on the organization as a whole and every product that comes out of it. So many players on Buffalo have this loser bug and it starts with your leadership group. The only common denominator on this team is the leader, Eichel. You can make a case for the Pegulas having way to much of a say and wanting full control of every decision.

Is Eichel great, yup. I just would rather keep the guys we have to make a culture of our own. Not shipping off Kakko or Laf for a guy who doesn't play 200ft, has proven nothing but high numbers offensively and never leading his team to a post season. Ship em out west.

 

[Avery16]

Filip Chlapik Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com



worth a shot?

 

[Trxjw]

As the leader of the Sabres for 6 years he has shown no ability to get his team to even finish a season without looking completely dejected with 20 or so games left. That's with solid rosters and tons of high quality picks. He's a selfish and poor defensive type player who clearly doesn't have control of the room based off how negative the attitude of the organization is. Not making the playoffs or even coming close after all these high picks, coaches and gm's is a bad look on the organization as a whole and every product that comes out of it. So many players on Buffalo have this loser bug and it starts with your leadership group. The only common denominator on this team is the leader, Eichel. You can make a case for the Pegulas having way to much of a say and wanting full control of every decision.

Is Eichel great, yup. I just would rather keep the guys we have to make a culture of our own. Not shipping off Kakko or Laf for a guy who doesn't play 200ft, has proven nothing but high numbers offensively and never leading his team to a post season. Ship em out west.

You say it's the organizations fault for not developing high picks and swapping coaches and GM's right after you say Eichel's lack of leadership hasn't gotten "solid rosters and tons of high quality picks" to finish a season. Which is it? Either the teams are solid or they're not. It can't be his fault and not his fault.

Nobody in their right mind is saying to deal Kakko or Lafreniere for him. Not sure why you even went there.

 

[MetalJaws]

What more do you expect the guy to do? Mathews has Tavares, Marner, and Nylander as a supporting cast. Neither McDavid nor MacKinnon were able to carry their team to winning seasons until the roster filled in adequately around them. This isn't basketball where one guy can carry a franchise on his shoulders. Hockey requires a competent roster in order for a team to be successful and Eichel hasn't had one in his entire tenure with the Sabres.

Eichel has been arguably a top-5 center in the NHL for the last several seasons on a bottom-10 team. He's been over a PPG with absolute crap around him. Buffalo has given him f***-all to work with. Eichel isn't even the first guy in the last several years to quit on Buffalo because of the losing. Ryan O'Reilly said he was sick of losing, forced a trade -- one in which the Sabres got scraps in return -- and won a cup literally the next season. That's the kind of shit Eichel has to deal with.

Eichel has played with ROR, Kane, Reinhart, Okposo, Dahlin, Skinner and many more who can play hockey just fine. Do you watch this guy play? He looks about as disinterested as he can be and he's the captain! Been like that for years. Not the answer, especially for all our prospects. If it works with fringe guys and picks. Sure, get em. Other wise, off to west coast.

 

[duhmetreE]

Guess who's back... back again.



any chance he plays next game? Giroux looked like an animal last night with limited practice/time.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

The roster isn't the same....staal gone, Fast gone, Lundqvist gone... Miller in, Lafrieniere in, Johnson in, Hajek in, Rooney in, Blackwell in, Bitteto in. The problem this year has been Zib getting covid and an injury before the 4th game, Kreider slow start, Lafreniere not quite ready, injuries to Chytil, Trouba, covid protocol to Kakko and Miller and a slow start to our goaltending early on.
Add it up.....it adds up to losses.

It’s not the exact same but they rearranged the deck chairs, it’s not like they made the team actively better

which isn’t the end of the world because of the amount of dead cap space and other factors

 

[duhmetreE]

I honestly dont want Eichel because I feel it would cost too much and he's just more offensive talent. I feel like we have a lot of offensive talent, we need to round out the team.

I'd rather get a poor mans version in Monahan. I think he would excel with our wingers and cost less.

 

[Vitto79]

Guess who's back... back again.



any chance he plays next game? Giroux looked like an animal last night with limited practice/time.

I would guess not but the Game after likely since his conditioning will be better

better see Howden on the wing then benched when Kakko returns

 

[Shesterkybomb]

What more do you expect the guy to do? Mathews has Tavares, Marner, and Nylander as a supporting cast. Neither McDavid nor MacKinnon were able to carry their team to winning seasons until the roster filled in adequately around them. This isn't basketball where one guy can carry a franchise on his shoulders. Hockey requires a competent roster in order for a team to be successful and Eichel hasn't had one in his entire tenure with the Sabres.

Eichel has been arguably a top-5 center in the NHL for the last several seasons on a bottom-10 team. He's been over a PPG with absolute crap around him. Buffalo has given him f***-all to work with. Eichel isn't even the first guy in the last several years to quit on Buffalo because of the losing. Ryan O'Reilly said he was sick of losing, forced a trade -- one in which the Sabres got scraps in return -- and won a cup literally the next season. That's the kind of shit Eichel has to deal with.

Hall, Skinner, Olafson, Staal, reinhart, Middelstat, Cozens, Dahlin, Okposo Ristolainen, Miller etc isnt nothing and he needs to stop sooking and be part of the solution, the team committed long term to him and all he talks about is leaving.

 

[Fitzy]

I honestly dont want Eichel because I feel it would cost too much and he's just more offensive talent. I feel like we have a lot of offensive talent, we need to round out the team.

I get the reservations about Jack, but realistically I don't think there is any way NYR don't offer a package if he formally goes on the trading block.

It would be a big gamble, and a big part of the next window, akin to the Nash trade. But at a certain point I see management actively looking to 'accelerate' by trading some of the stocked prospect cupboard for current NHL talent.

Still, a lot depends on how the rest of this season goes, and how some of the prospects develop.

 

[MetalJaws]

You say it's the organizations fault for not developing high picks and swapping coaches and GM's right after you say Eichel's lack of leadership hasn't gotten "solid rosters and tons of high quality picks" to finish a season. Which is it? Either the teams are solid or they're not. It can't be his fault and not his fault.

Nobody in their right mind is saying to deal Kakko or Lafreniere for him. Not sure why you even went there.

I think Eichel is at the center of that entire organizations problems. That better said? If buffalo would trade him for like a 1st, Kravtsov, Strome and Lundquist. Then yea, go for it. Hell throw in Howden. Buffalo aint that stupid. Cant be.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I honestly dont want Eichel because I feel it would cost too much and he's just more offensive talent. I feel like we have a lot of offensive talent, we need to round out the team.

I'd rather get a poor mans version in Monahan. I think he would excel with our wingers and cost less.

I want a young center in the same age group as Laf, Kakko, Miller. Ill give assets for that, i don't want to add 10 mill at this point.

 

[True Blue]

I think anyone who followed Fox knew he had the potential to be an elite defenseman. I mean he was the best D in college behind only Makar and the best D for the USA at the WJC. He had accomplished pretty much anything a prospect could at an elite level besides be drafted really high so people are comfortable projecting him to do great things. I even argued against trading for Trouba until we knew what we had in Fox. Because he was just that good.

Did anyone know? I'm not sure if your question is just poorly worded or disingenuous. You never know. Even after seeing a player meet or exceed expectations at the NHL level you don't know. But you can guess, which is probably what the Rangers did and is why they traded two high picks for a guy they could have potentially signed for free a year later.

What exactly is the argument here? That between being awesome outside the NHL and being awesome in the NHL something happened to his development in training camp that made him awesome?

The argument is this. For the people claiming that Fox and Miller arrived in NY as perfectly formed players. Which means that the believe two things. That at the time of the Gorton trade they KNEW they were already getting a player whose trajectory was to be an elite top line defenseman. And that Miller developed in Wisconsin.

Both assertions are utter horsecrap. At the time of the Fox deal, most in the NHL thought him to be a nice 2nd pair defenseman in the future. Including no one here. If someone wants to claim this, then let's see the posts that proclaim as such. And lest we forget the cries around here about needing to rescue Miller from Wisconsin as he was being ruined there by Granato. If someone wants to argue that Granato was properly developing him, then again let's see the proof.

The reason that NO ONE can produce such is that such assertions did not exist. So, no. Neither player came to NY as a perfectly formed player. Miller did not suddenly develop himself skating in the backyard. This board goes to so much contortions to try not to give the team any credit for development. To the point of intellectual dishonesty. AFTER Fox came here and begin developing, he took the next step to be where he is now, a borderline top line defenseman. AFTER Miller came here, he began developing into what he is. Not in friggin' Wisconsin where all proclaiming now that he came in as a perfectly formed player were previously falling into collective apoplexy about how Granato was ruining him.

That's the argument.

 

[duhmetreE]

Speaking of Buffalo, what would we give up for Brandon Montour?

He seems like a decent 'replacement' for ADA. We desperately need RHD

 

[Overcast]

As the leader of the Sabres for 6 years he has shown no ability to get his team to even finish a season without looking completely dejected with 20 or so games left. That's with solid rosters and tons of high quality picks. He's a selfish and poor defensive type player who clearly doesn't have control of the room based off how negative the attitude of the organization is. Not making the playoffs or even coming close after all these high picks, coaches and gm's is a bad look on the organization as a whole and every product that comes out of it. So many players on Buffalo have this loser bug and it starts with your leadership group. The only common denominator on this team is the leader, Eichel. You can make a case for the Pegulas having way to much of a say and wanting full control of every decision.

Is Eichel great, yup. I just would rather keep the guys we have to make a culture of our own. Not shipping off Kakko or Laf for a guy who doesn't play 200ft, has proven nothing but high numbers offensively and never leading his team to a post season. Ship em out west.

The fact that the Rangers don't have any semblance of an identity already is a little alarming. More so that Quinn has been here for 3 years, and we've had basically the same vet core remain in tact. What does this team do exceptionally well? Forecheck? Possession? Physically tough to play against? Speedy and quick with transitions? With Tortorella, you knew how they were going to play. With AV, you knew how they were going to play. But what is Quinn's idea for the team?

 

[rangers1314]

Filip Chlapik Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com



worth a shot?

Considering we've got Jonny Bonzindski horse assing out there...I'd say yes, it's worth looking into.

 

[True Blue]

His argument is that Quinn is always right, has done a masterful job developing all prospects, and any criticism of Quinn is undeserved.

Going to try to actually answer the question? Or is that too much for you?

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

If the team gets a top 5/10 pick I put it at 75% that pick is used to get another center

hopefully it’s not Monahan

 

[Cmox]

Yeah, and like, I mean in a sense it is true. Carolina -- is -- built and coached a little differently than all those teams Fast played for in NY and they have a boatload of speed at center ice and that really helps them playing a fast paced game = a lot of skating/work.

This is most likely the case. The Rangers work ethic was the only system in the NHL he knew. Maybe on his opinion the Rangers system seemed to blasé and unorganized compared to Carolina’s? It’s still a bad look for the Rangers especially when interviews are pretty much accessible to the everyone.

 

[True Blue]

That is the coaches job anyway to figure out how to get Lafreniere pp time especially with no Panarin here right now.

The coaches have to figure out how to put the best lineup on the ice.

 

[Trxjw]

Eichel has played with ROR, Kane, Reinhart, Okposo, Dahlin, Skinner and many more who can play hockey just fine. Do you watch this guy play? He looks about as disinterested as he can be and he's the captain! Been like that for years. Not the answer, especially for all our prospects. If it works with fringe guys and picks. Sure, get em. Other wise, off to west coast.

Once we've reached the "do you watch this guy play" part of the narrative I know you're just winging it. Okposo's body fell apart after he got to Buffalo. Dahlin is 20. Skinner quit on the team after cashing in. Kane is a nut case. Reinhart is a good 2C. ROR literally left Buffalo for the same reasons Eichel wants out, was chided for not being a "leader" when he said he was sick of losing, and went on to lead his team to a cup the following year.

You can think he looks lazy on the ice. That's your impression and nothing I say will change that. Yet until this season he's been consistency the best player on the ice in Buffalo by a country mile. The idea that a guy can put a letter on his jersey and somehow transform a middling group of talent into a playoff team is a fantasy. Nobody does that. It's nonsense.