Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXII: Stepping up in a Perfect Storm?

[True Blue]

I feel like we are still suffering from what Dave Maloney mentioned. We had the potential Rocket-Hart line last year rolling and we played ourselves thinking we're a finesse team when we're really a meat and potatoes grind and jam team still with our depth. We had your Lemmy, Howden, Goat, Fil, Kaapo, middle 6 trying to razzle dazzle in Quinn's system either because Quinn has installed the wrong system or the young players aren't buying into a blue collar offensive effort night in and night out. Enter Rooney, Blackwell, and Phil Di Giuseppi who know their meal ticket is grind jam and forecheck to create offense and these guys are the ones thriving under Quinn's system. Are the youngsters not buying into what Quinn is selling that has made stars out of Colin Blackwell and Kevin Rooney? Or is Quinn not using the right approach and recipe for the ingredients he's got?

Here we go again. There is not a single coach in the NHL that allows teen agers to do what they feel like and play what makes them comfortable. Kakkp tried to be the Liga version of Kakko. You know what you got? Arguably the worst player in the entire NHL. The Liga version of Kakko would have a fine career. In Liga. The Q version of Lafreniere is fantastic. In the Q. That version of a player has no career in the NHL.

It is not up to young players to buy or not to buy it. They need to be broken of habits that can be masked when playing in Liga or the Q, but not at the NHL level. For example, please refer to Kakko's play this year. It is also utter bunk to claim that they have not bought in. Have you seen Chytil's play? Kakko's? Lafreniere's? There is NOTHING there to suggest any sort of disgruntlement with the system. And that is before we get to Fox, Lindgren & Miller.

It is utterly laughable that to try to illustrate your point you cherry pick Rooney, Blackwell & PDG. But very generously leave out the play of Buchnevich, Panarin, Kakko, Chytil, Fox, etc.

Watching some of these shifts and I'm starting to see why Lias fled, Vitali spiraled amok, Kaapo died on the inside, and Alexis looks dead on the outside. I don't see any attempts by Alexis to create. I don't see Alexis make risky plays. I don't see Alexis making mistakes. Kids learn through trying to use their skills to do great things. Kids learn by making costly mistakes. Quinn is in an absolute we need the wins don't you f*** it up mode of hockey. I can see why all of our forwards are in the purgatory mentally and on paper. They're out there licking stamps getting the puck in and circling around then coming back to the bench and Quinn is patting them on the back saying good shift, no mistakes, good puck decisions. Maybe all 6 or 7 agents need to sit down and have a chat with Gorton too.

Good lord. Just when you think it cannot possibly get any worse. Lias AGAIN? Please tell me. How has he been doing in LA? Let me save you the trouble. 1 point in 11 games. 4th lowest ice time on the entire team.

Perhaps it is time to flee again?

And how has Kravsotv been performing this year?

Kakko is dead inside? Trying to get to poetic here? Seems to me that judging by his play, his heart is full of joy.

Lafreniere not creating? Dude, what the EFF are you smoking? Go no further than the last game? There are several GREAT chances that he created.

Wow. The sad thing about it is that you actually believe your own crap. There are things that Quinn should rightfully get whacked for. What you are listing is not anywhere on the list.

 

[LokiDog]

More or less agree with this. I would bring up Lemieux but he's not always consistent on the dump and chase either. Gauthier could be an asset as well but again he doesn't use his size all that effectively on the forecheck. Rooney isn't bad though. Some of this is the type of forwards we have. For the most part they're not the grinder types and for some you either have that mentality or you don't. It's not that easily taught. It's one of the reasons why a player like Bennett is so attractive to a lot of us.

I almost mentioned Bennett specifically in that post but people seem tired of me beating that drum. Fast is obviously another example. They’re not top six players on paper, but in a situation like Fast with Panarin and Strome, you have skilled players paired with a puck hound and disturber. They create some havoc and space for the skill players to take advantage of. Not the best example, because they had such poor depth, but Maroon and Kassian having success with McDavid are similar stories. Ideally, it’s great if you can find one or two top six quality guys who do play that game, but there’s not an abundant supply of those players, which is why you often see a “grinder” plugged in with two skill guys. It helps you spread the skill guys across three lines and put a play disturber on each line who knows what their role is. We could definitely benefit from targeting a couple of those types.

 

[Synergy27]

Not really. You really do not see Ovechkin playing on the right side, do you? So yes, positions do matter. How much you want to attribute to that seems to be arbitrary.

Where Lafreniere should or should not be seems to be arbitrary as well. According the fans on HF, he should be is spot X. According to management and the front office of the Rangers, he should be in spot Y. Believing that his or Kakko's development is simply tyrannical decisions of Quinn without having a gameplay that both Gorton and JD bought into is silly.

Yes really. Sure, Ovi’s spot on the PP is on the same side of the ice he plays at even strength. I would hope that would be true given that he has an all time shot and should be put in a position to use it as much as possible.

But just to note, I didn’t say positions on the PP don’t matter, I said that ES positions go out the window when it’s PP time. Of course it matters that you put your players in positions to use their strengths. This is magnified on the PP. The off wing trigger man on a PP isn’t playing LW, it’s a different position. Just as forwards playing the point on the PP aren’t playing defense.

I made no declaration as to where on the PP Laf should be, just that he should be on it. I have an opinion as to where, but it’s irrelevant. Not giving our 1OA PP time is a missed opportunity for him to develop NHL timing, fill up the stat sheet and gain some confidence, and frankly, to keep him happy.

Yes, I think the team should be seeking to keep their prized possession happy. You may disagree.

 

[Synergy27]

I almost mentioned Bennett specifically in that post but people seem tired of me beating that drum. Fast is obviously another example. They’re not top six players on paper, but in a situation like Fast with Panarin and Strome, you have skilled players paired with a puck hound and disturber. They create some havoc and space for the skill players to take advantage of. Not the best example, because they had such poor depth, but Maroon and Kassian having success with McDavid are similar stories. Ideally, it’s great if you can find one or two top six quality guys who do play that game, but there’s not an abundant supply of those players, which is why you often see a “grinder” plugged in with two skill guys. It helps you spread the skill guys across three lines and put a play disturber on each line who knows what their role is. We could definitely benefit from targeting a couple of those types.

Did we not all learn this lesson with NES Ice Hockey? You better have a couple of fat guys out there getting messy.

 

[Tob]

Here we go again. There is not a single coach in the NHL that allows teen agers to do what they feel like and play what makes them comfortable. Kakkp tried to be the Liga version of Kakko. You know what you got? Arguably the worst player in the entire NHL. The Liga version of Kakko would have a fine career. In Liga. The Q version of Lafreniere is fantastic. In the Q. That version of a player has no career in the NHL.

It is not up to young players to buy or not to buy it. They need to be broken of habits that can be masked when playing in Liga or the Q, but not at the NHL level. For example, please refer to Kakko's play this year. It is also utter bunk to claim that they have not bought in. Have you seen Chytil's play? Kakko's? Lafreniere's? There is NOTHING there to suggest any sort of disgruntlement with the system. And that is before we get to Fox, Lindgren & Miller.

It is utterly laughable that to try to illustrate your point you cherry pick Rooney, Blackwell & PDG. But very generously leave out the play of Buchnevich, Panarin, Kakko, Chytil, Fox, etc.

Good lord. Just when you think it cannot possibly get any worse. Lias AGAIN? Please tell me. How has he been doing in LA? Let me save you the trouble. 1 point in 11 games. 4th lowest ice time on the entire team.

Perhaps it is time to flee again?

And how has Kravsotv been performing this year?

Kakko is dead inside? Trying to get to poetic here? Seems to me that judging by his play, his heart is full of joy.

Lafreniere not creating? Dude, what the EFF are you smoking? Go no further than the last game? There are several GREAT chances that he created.

Wow. The sad thing about it is that you actually believe your own crap. There are things that Quinn should rightfully get whacked for. What you are listing is not anywhere on the list.

have you been yelling for 20 years on HFBoards?

 

[bl02]

Yes really. Sure, Ovi’s spot on the PP is on the same side of the ice he plays at even strength. I would hope that would be true given that he has an all time shot and should be put in a position to use it as much as possible.

But just to note, I didn’t say positions on the PP don’t matter, I said that ES positions go out the window when it’s PP time. Of course it matters that you put your players in positions to use their strengths. This is magnified on the PP. The off wing trigger man on a PP isn’t playing LW, it’s a different position. Just as forwards playing the point on the PP aren’t playing defense.

I made no declaration as to where on the PP Laf should be, just that he should be on it. I have an opinion as to where, but it’s irrelevant. Not giving our 1OA PP time is a missed opportunity for him to develop NHL timing, fill up the stat sheet and gain some confidence, and frankly, to keep him happy.

Yes, I think the team should be seeking to keep their prized possession happy. You may disagree.

Thank you for making sense. Didn’t want to have to explain it again.

 

[duhmetreE]

Saying Fox has always had IQ and saying that at the time of the trade he was thought of as borderline elite are two different things.

Ok. so if guidance equals coaching and Miller has been developing under guidance AND Wisconsin was a dumpster fire last year, then looks like his steps forward in development came after he arrived to the Rangers.

I was referring to the players having elite attributes, in their own regards.
Adam Fox = Professor X
KAM = Captain America

How is Lafreniere developing this year? in his 'dumpster fire' of a season? How did Kakko develop last year? in his 'dumpster fire' of a season? How did Chytil develop in his first two 'dumpster fire' seasons? How did Kravtsov develop?

You are just trying to win an argument with smoke and mirrors. At this point in time, David Quinn is not a good NHL head coach. I'm not talking about 'player development'. I'm talking about actual NHL coaching. He's not an assistant. He's not in college. He's a NHL Head Coach of the New York Rangers. His system is DOS in 2021.

 

[duhmetreE]

I am not at all bitter. I just do not deal with nothing but pure conjecture.

Games are lost by coaching decisions before the games even start... by not putting the most optimal team out on the ice.

Lafreniere not on the PP is one of those scenarios. Blackwell shanking a slam dunk open net on the PP, exacerbates that.

 

[True Blue]

have you been yelling for 20 years on HFBoards?

I will also note that you rather artfully left out the part about how Kravstov returned and impressed in the bubble. Hmmm...one wonders why you left that out of your cherry picked narratives. Though will give you credit. Kakko being dead on the inside is quite the new one. Am sure you were in tears when he imparted this story to you.

But hey, since we learned yesterday that you believed that Fox was elite from day 1 and that you believed that Granato developed Miller, despite not being able to back any of those assertions (really, not one single little post about what a great job Granato was doing....not even one?). Well, guess we know where that brings us.

 

[True Blue]

I was referring to the players having elite attributes, in their own regards.
Adam Fox = Professor X
KAM = Captain America

Astute.

How is Lafreniere developing this year? How did Kakko develop last year? How did Chytil develop? How did Kravtsov develop?

How has Kakko been looking this year? How has Chytil been developing? Read the board swooning all over him this year.

Kravstov came to the bubble and did quite well. And then has been excelling in KHL. Lafreniere, despite the circumstances, has looked just fine and when he is on the ice, the team generated a ton of high opportunity chances. So yeah, they are doing just fine.

 

[True Blue]

I made no declaration as to where on the PP Laf should be, just that he should be on it. I have an opinion as to where, but it’s irrelevant. Not giving our 1OA PP time is a missed opportunity for him to develop NHL timing, fill up the stat sheet and gain some confidence, and frankly, to keep him happy.

Yeah, where is sort of important here. You just simply blurted out where he should be. Why not play him on defense?

Yes, I think the team should be seeking to keep their prized possession happy. You may disagree.

Now they need to keep them happy. Should the be allocated their own special safe space as well? Maybe a separate bubble room?

I see not a single note of unhappiness about how they are being used. Not one. If you can point out to why you believe that they are unhappy, I am all ears.

The coaching staff need to teach their prized possessions about how to play at the NHL level.

 

[duhmetreE]

Astute.

How has Kakko been looking this year? How has Chytil been developing? Read the board swooning all over him this year.

Kravstov came to the bubble and did quite well. And then has been excelling in KHL. Lafreniere, despite the circumstances, has looked just fine and when he is on the ice, the team generated a ton of high opportunity chances. So yeah, they are doing just fine.

How did they develop in their dumpster fire seasons? How did Kravtsov develop in a dumpster fire offense?

 

[True Blue]

Games are lost by coaching decisions before the games even start... by not putting the most optimal team out on the ice.

Lafreniere not on the PP is one of those scenarios. Blackwell shanking a slam dunk open net on the PP, exacerbates that.

Oh. Right. Because you have the wisdom to know that the outcome would have been different if the coaching staff had just listened to you.

 

[True Blue]

How did they develop in dumpster fire seasons? How did Kravtsov develop in a dumpster fire offense?

By being properly coached and guided. And look. Amazingly enough they are ALL better for it.

 

[duhmetreE]

Oh. Right. Because you have the wisdom to know that the outcome would have been different if the coaching staff had just listened to you.

Considering Blackwell was flubbing the puck on the PP and missed a slam dunk open net, yes... I do have that wisdom.

Because the right answer was always Lafreniere.

 

[duhmetreE]

By being properly coached and guided. And look. Amazingly enough they are ALL better for it.

So, they can develop in dumpster fire seasons, but others cant? OK. Magic Quinn, I forgot... it must be his eyes

edit - KAM/Fox cant develop with 2/3 years of college/international because dumpster fire.
Everyone else developed during their dumpster fire seasons here because reasons.


A+ logic

 

[Tob]

The Russian bots were less forceful and defensive in defending Vladimir Putin in the Panarin thread than True Blue is defending everything Quinn does. We can't criticize his dump and chase system without being called heretics.

 

[kovazub94]

You f***ing guys made this place unbearable. Seems within a month all my favorite long time posters to have a normal discussion with are either completely gone or reduced their posting to a minimum.

 

[Synergy27]

Yeah, where is sort of important here. You just simply blurted out where he should be. Why not play him on defense?

Huh? I did the opposite. Our 1OA draft pick, ostensibly the most skilled player on the team (he’s second because we have Panarin), should be on the PP in the position that most effectively utilizes his skills.

Now they need to keep them happy. Should the be allocated their own special safe space as well? Maybe a separate bubble room?

I see not a single note of unhappiness about how they are being used. Not one. If you can point out to why you believe that they are unhappy, I am all ears.

The coaching staff need to teach their prized possessions about how to play at the NHL level.

You really do enjoy the ad absurdum argument. I have seen zero indications that Laf is unhappy. He doesn’t need a safe space. He needs to be put into situations that will ultimately allow him to become the cornerstone of the franchise.

What doesn’t square with me is that, unlike me, you actually think Laf has been good. If he’s been as good and creative as you think, doesn’t it make sense for him to be on the PP? It makes sense for him to be there from every angle.

 

[Synergy27]

You f***ing guys made this place unbearable. Seems within a month all my favorite long time posters to have a normal discussion with are either completely gone or reduced their posting to a minimum.

Who, specifically, are you referring to? What’s so unbearable about what’s being discussed in here?

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Games are lost by coaching decisions before the games even start... by not putting the most optimal team out on the ice.

This comment is all hyperbole.

Lafreniere not on the PP is one of those scenarios. Blackwell shanking a slam dunk open net on the PP, exacerbates that.

I'll admit that I don't understand Quinn's reluctance to get Lafreniere to the PP. But is Quinn to black for Blackwell whiffing?

 

[Synergy27]

This comment is all hyperbole.


I'll admit that I don't understand Quinn's reluctance to get Lafreniere to the PP. But is Quinn to black for Blackwell whiffing?

Blackwell has been one of the team’s best forwards and I’m not upset about rewarding him with ice time and PP time in a bubble. He deserves it. But with Panarin out and our 1OA still struggling to get on the scoreboard, DQ is missing the forest for the trees.

Can’t blame DQ for the whiff obviously, but of course that had to happen so as to magnify everyone’s narratives.

 

[TominNC]

I’m just afraid they’ll get beat these next two games. Anymore injuries to the vets means more Hartford.

They'll likely lose the next two games. Then they hit a stretch where as they get guys back they can win some games.

 

[duhmetreE]

This comment is all hyperbole.

Blackwell failing on the PP says different, when Lafreniere was the obvious choice.

Staying with 4RHS on the PP

 

[bl02]

They'll likely lose the next two games. Then they hit a stretch where as they get guys back they can win some games.

I hope you're right but not super confident even beating the likes of Buffalo, NJ, half injured team in Pitt or Phil. We are 2-6 I believe against the NJD/Buff/Pitt (with guys out).