Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXII: Stepping up in a Perfect Storm?

[bl02]

When you are going to start to lobby players to play over other players on the PP, position has a good amount to do with it. A 19 year old should learn the game by playing his position. Otherwise why not just lobby for him to play instead of a defenseman on the PP? Not everyone can simply play point. Not everyone can simply play center.

He's not playing the point or center. Strome actually helps balance out the second unit. Who's centering the second unit right now? Rooney?
Why do we have two centers on the first unit? I am sure having Lafreniere sub in for Strome or Blackwell is not gonna screw up his ability to play the position. what about the 1-3-1 with Mika playing the middle and Lafreniere along the left wall? How is that screwing up his positioning?

 

[duhmetreE]

Guidance or coaching? You said the players did not develop by themselves. And then list guidance, experience, practice and time. Guidance pretty much is coaching? Or is it advice from mentors as one individual pointed out? Practice is conducted under the watchful eye of coaches, is it not? Experience comes from playing and then going over your play ......with a coach.

This is what I mean by outright intellectual dishonestly. Fox developed his elite ability in college? Yeah? Find me one single post from this board that called him "elite" at the time of the trade. Find me one single NHL prospects article that called his talent elite. Find me one single post from this board that called Miller being developed at Wisconsin as elite. Just one. You can't. You will find a ton on how he is being ruined in Wisconsin and how the Rangers need to get him out for his own good. The revisionist history really is something.

Ok, now we're arguing semantics.

Yes, guidance = coaching. If was generalized to fit what I wrote... 'How does any player OR PERSON develop?'

Inetellectual dishonesty to say people/players developed/honed their elite skills in college? OK It's intellectually dishonest to believe KAM did it during quarantine and a shortened camp... but you do you. Ok, so KAM was never an elite talent? that's news to me. He was raw at defense, I guess 2 years at college helped more than HF expected. As in, with 2 years of college/international player, he's now developed enough to use his elite skills and excel at defense. No? it was a Covid Mircale Camp instead?

if its not posted here, its not true? Fox's elite aspect is his brain. He always had that... Like I've already said, expectations of HF does not always equal reality.

 

[duhmetreE]

Buch and ADA
for
Monahan and Bennett

would you? are we @Edge 'ing closer?

 

[NYRKing]

I can’t believe they didn’t suspend ADA for whatever he did rather than kick him off the team. Here we are icing smith bitteto Johnson and hajek. What the hell is going on. I need answers!!

 

[Synergy27]

Buch and ADA
for
Monahan and Bennett

would you? are we @Edge 'ing closer?

I unfortunately think this place finally drove @Edge away. I hope he comes back.

 

[Profet]

I unfortunately think this place finally drove @Edge away. I hope he comes back.

@Edge disappears right when Panarin takes a leave of absence... And then Strome says:

"Can't really say too much. I think he's in good hands"

 

[Synergy27]

When you are going to start to lobby players to play over other players on the PP, position has a good amount to do with it. A 19 year old should learn the game by playing his position. Otherwise why not just lobby for him to play instead of a defenseman on the PP? Not everyone can simply play point. Not everyone can simply play center.

Positions go almost completely out the window on PPs. It’s basically a completely different game within the game. Instead of LW-C-RW-LD-RD you have some combination of Point Man, Net Front, Half Boards, and Bumper. Even strength position should only matter during faceoffs (maybe) and at the end of PPs when you’re transitioning back to even strength.

Lafreniere should be on the PP for this team. If he is as advertised, he is the second most skilled player on the team behind Panarin. Most stud rookies get sheltered minutes - PP time, offensive zone starts, etc. This is the typical way to nurture budding talents while they round out their strength and two way play.

 

[Fitzy]

I think it’s really early to assume that Lafreniere is more skilled than Zibanejad Fox or Kakko.

We won’t know the youngest kids potential for several years

 

[RGY]

I am not sure why some here cannot understand others frustrations about the coaching and management decisions.

Signing players like Jack Johnson and Brodzinski in the first few days of free agency is infuriating. And you can try and play the card of ‘we have way more injuries / covid than we were anticipating” but that is BS, especially in this year. Thats even more of a reason to sign better quality depth than these garbage AHL level players. There were proven vets out there practically signing for the league minimum. There still are! And yet we are rolling out Brodzinski for wednesday night hockey match against Philly?

Sorry but thats just not acceptable

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I am not sure why some here cannot understand others frustrations about the coaching and management decisions.

Signing players like Jack Johnson and Brodzinski in the first few days of free agency is infuriating. And you can try and play the card of ‘we have way more injuries / covid than we were anticipating” but that is BS, especially in this year. Thats even more of a reason to sign better quality depth than these garbage AHL level players. There were proven vets out there practically signing for the league minimum. There still are! And yet we are rolling out Brodzinski for wednesday night hockey match against Philly?

Sorry but thats just not acceptable

Signing Brodzinski wasn't a problem. When this team is at full strength, he's a solid AHL player and we need vets there. Can't run with all kids even at that level.

Calling up and playing Brodzinski is a problem though, especially when Quinn is our coach and has forgotten how to run a bench. The amount of ice time the 4th line got last night was disgusting and straight up cost them a game that Igor very well was in line to steal.

 

[Cmox]

I was sitting on the can doing my thing and I remembered the fact that we've actually been raving about K'andre for years, haven't we? Like, I swear we were extremely high on him months after he was drafted and continued to do so. I even remember seeing a lot of people on the main boards who aren't Rangers fans say Miller is not going to be traded for anything short of a too good to turn down offer. Like, why are we talking about Miller as if he struggled in college and failed to develop? Miller is literally the most improved player prior to his arrival to the big club we've seen in this rebuild, ahead of even Nils.

You’re absolutely correct on this. He’s always been a highly touted prospect. So much I feared he’d be a bust bc you know how it is ...reasons? That said the bathroom is a great place for thinking.

 

[MrAlmost]

I know it is probably never going to happen cause his contract even at 50% is poison, but ADA for Skinner at 50% and something else? Teams that win tend to find these guys on contracts like that that later look like steals. Just wondering aloud I suppose.

Also, I would trade Buch for Bennett. Maybe a few things here and there can get us Hanafin as well, though I know some people hate him, he is better than everyone else we have at LD right now besides Lindgren.

 

[TominNC]

I can’t believe they didn’t suspend ADA for whatever he did rather than kick him off the team. Here we are icing smith bitteto Johnson and hajek. What the hell is going on. I need answers!!

Answers are Miller and Trouba - out of the lineup, Lundkvist, Schneider, Jones, etc, etc, etc - year or two away.

If you notice we also had an AHL 4th line because we have a full line out and Kravtsov, Barron, Cuylie, etc, etc - a year or more away.

We're still building and Covid is a bitch.

 

[jay from jersey]

Oh man please this week has been garbage enough. Didn't he make all those breakaway saves after that possible knee tweak?

Yea it wasn’t official or anything. The announcers just said he got up flexing his knee. It’s probably nothing, but better safe then sorry

 

[Ola]

Can we please stop with the crap that DQ gets all the blame for kids that don’t do well and zero credit for kids that do? How everyone only have black and white views about him? This is getting soooo tiresome.

It’s not even remotely in touch with reality.

1. How much blame has DQ received from Howden not scoring? For Kravy not being ready? For Chytil not breaking out offensively? For highly touted Hajak looking like a fringe NHLer? For Lemieux looking more and more like a 4th liner?

So the narrative is just plain wrong. We litterary have a ton of kids on the roster and in the organization that isn’t reaching their potential, and DQ is getting zero blame for it (and at least in most cases, IMO, neither should he).

2. It’s a complete myth that a NHL coach can impact how skilled a kid is.

He impacts how a kid is deployed. What type of support the kid gets. What type of ice time the kids gets. And so forth. If you think the way a coach has deployed a kid really impacted a kid, and that the kid was deployed in a way that wouldn’t have been a given for just about any coach, the coach deserves credit. It’s also just as important for a coach to hold back kids that needs more time, because a kid that is rushed and fails hard can have a hard time finding that extreme drive again.

3. HAVING A 1st/2nd OVERALL PICK that is 18-19 on the roster is DIFFERENT. Lol, is that really even up for debate?

(a) These kids are of course not complete and ready in all areas, but (b) they cannot go the coming years without seing a lot of high caliber offensive action without it hurting their offensive game.

Here comes a big responsibility for the coaching staff to make this balancing act work. Provide the necessary support for them and to get them into game situations.

With that said — I am not saying that this settles that DQ have done a piss poor job. But to call out people questioning his job for being hypocritical is just BS in my opinion.

 

[LokiDog]

Answers are Miller and Trouba - out of the lineup, Lundkvist, Schneider, Jones, etc, etc, etc - year or two away.

If you notice we also had an AHL 4th line because we have a full line out and Kravtsov, Barron, Cuylie, etc, etc - a year or more away.

We're still building and Covid is a bitch.

You don’t not sign quality veteran stop gaps because you have kids who may be ready in a year or two. There were ample NHL caliber vets signing for very cheap this summer. We picked up tweeners. Signing good veteran depth on 1-2 year stop gap deals insulates the kids against being a part of a woeful, loser team and developing a losing locker room culture, even if those guys aren’t in the long term plans and the kids who will replace them are nearly ready to step in.

 

[LokiDog]

I know it is probably never going to happen cause his contract even at 50% is poison, but ADA for Skinner at 50% and something else? Teams that win tend to find these guys on contracts like that that later look like steals. Just wondering aloud I suppose.

Also, I would trade Buch for Bennett. Maybe a few things here and there can get us Hanafin as well, though I know some people hate him, he is better than everyone else we have at LD right now besides Lindgren.

If the Skinner deal was only 2-3 I’d consider that swap at 50% but there’s no way I’d touch it. And we’re crowded on wings as is. I really want Bennett, but Buch for Bennett is poor asset management. Calgary would have to add considerably.

 

[Irishguy42]

Also, I would trade Buch for Bennett.

This is incredibly dumb

 

[Kravtsov420]

I just wonder at what point will management actually address this shit show? Somethings got to give, right ?

 

[DutchShamrock]

I was sitting on the can doing my thing and I remembered the fact that we've actually been raving about K'andre for years, haven't we? Like, I swear we were extremely high on him months after he was drafted and continued to do so. I even remember seeing a lot of people on the main boards who aren't Rangers fans say Miller is not going to be traded for anything short of a too good to turn down offer. Like, why are we talking about Miller as if he struggled in college and failed to develop? Miller is literally the most improved player prior to his arrival to the big club we've seen in this rebuild, ahead of even Nils.

My axe grinding against posts saying Quinn deserves lots of credit for Miller is based on the fact that he was already super impressive and looked great according to JD during the play-in round practices. It is as disingenuous to credit Quinn with the success of Miller without recognizing that he was excellent and trending upward as it is to take credit away from Quinn for his part in turning Lindgren into a solid top 4 player.

It's just the typical BS tactics when the goal is to win an internet argument instead of having a discussion.

The discussion was ended about Lafreniere and Kakko when Miller got introduced. The logic was literally presented as Quinn can not be doing a bad job with Lafreniere because Miller looks great. If anyone used Andersson as evidence to prove Quinn is not responsible for Miller, it would get rightfully torn to shreds. But its the same faulty logic.

Quinn has a focus on defensive responsibility and mitigating mistakes. Of course defensemen will thrive. Simplify their game, play in the system, sound positioning. Fox, Lindgren, Miller thrive. ADA had a steep learning curve.

Its with the forwards that it becomes suspect. Buchnevich had to crawl until he earned trust and played responsible. That's a good thing. Kakko seems to have a similar path. The end product is ideal.

I think some of us question the path. Is their offensive ceiling hurt by punishing creativity and confidence? Are they in the best learning environment by having offensively devoid linemates? Does Quinn have an offensive system beyond Mika and Panarin being God tier? This looks like a college program. The freshmen get prove it assignments. The upper classmen carry the team.

My takeaway is that having offensive talent this young in the NHL is uncharted territory for rangers fans as well as Quinn.

 

[rangers1314]

Flames down 2-0 to Ottawa after 1...

 

[RGY]

Flames down 2-0 to Ottawa after 1...

I would love to pry Lindholm out of there, but would settle for Monahan. And I would take Bennett as 2nd piece in a deal.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Why? Lower body injury.

 

[rangers1314]

Why?

Lower body injury

 

[Cmox]

Why?

I saw somewhere he’s injured... but who knows?