Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXI - All along the Watch Tower

[duhmetreE]

Not better. Because now it implies Lemieux, PDG / Gauthier facing top opposition to play against.

The Rangers are essentially stuck with Zibanejad as a center for top two lines until Chytil returns.

Limiting minutes and exposure? @Fitzy made a suggestion to take his minutes on PK. Maybe take away opportunities to fail at one timers. Etc

I dont think its as dire as you're making it sound. The issue will be on the back end not the forwards group.

and I'd rather he PK but take time off of PP1.

 

[Fitzy]

This is exactly why the poor early returns from both Laf and Kakko is so concerning. The extreme value in getting those top picks is the near assurance of them generating near elite production at entry level cost. If these guys are on non-elite prospect development timelines, it throws the whole plan in disarray.

Instead of having cheap, high level scoring support for Panarin, you have Panarin and nothing else. If Laf and Kakko need 3-4 years to grow into their potential, that’s 3-4 years of wasted Panarin prime.

The only upside is that Laf and Kakko’s second contracts might not be as expensive as planned. But it still throws the plan out of whack.

Well, yes and no. We were never meant to compete for a cup this season- the goal was the make the playoffs and give the young guys that experience. Laf and Kakko's slow statistical start should actually help keep the AAV down on their next contracts.

The key will be whether the stars align properly, and if Kakko and Laf come into their own at 22, which is pretty much the norm for star players, will Panarin at 31-32-33 still be at the same level. I'm optimistic that even if he isn't at 100 point seasons, he'll still be a 75-90 point guy.

But if NYR's rebuild is successful, Panarin will only need to be a complementary player, the way Stamkos is in Tampa Bay or Nylander is in Toronto. Then, ideally, Kakko Laf, Fox, Miller and Shesty will be the new veteran core after the departure (Or lower re-signed rate) of Panarin Kreider and Trouba.

If we are talking about guys aging poorly and having anchor contracts, I'm much more worried about Trouba, Kreider, and Zibanejad than Panarin. Playmakers often have very long careers. Panarin is so savvy he barely ever gets hit.

 

[Synergy27]

Which goes back to why sign Bread and Trouba in the middle of a rebuild to begin with.

Not complaining. Just didn't go with the narrative.

Winning the Kakko lottery “accelerated the rebuild”. Winning the Lafreniere lottery put it into hyperdrive. Except, it didn’t.

 

[Machinehead]

Winning the Kakko lottery “accelerated the rebuild”. Winning the Lafreniere lottery put it into hyperdrive. Except, it didn’t.

I don't think it ever really did, necessarily. Kreider isn't getting younger and Zibanejad's next contract was always looming. The team was going to change anyway when those problems hit. With that in mind, contending was probably always down the line.

What I hoped is that maybe we'd compete during their ELC years. It is now evident that the current group of vets isn't getting us there. So we're just back to a longer outlook. That's what we signed up for.

 

[Daves a mess]

I'm not giving Mika 9 mill per year. No way.

Poor guy is a one and done concussion and its an Up In Smoke career prior to this Cheech and Chong aberration he's putting up so far this season.

Dude needs to check the chemicals in his hair conditioner.

 

[Fitzy]

I don't think it ever really did, necessarily. Kreider isn't getting younger and Zibanejad's next contract was always looming. The team was going to change anyway when those problems hit. With that in mind, contending was probably always down the line.

What I hoped is that maybe we'd compete during their ELC years. It is now evident that the current group of vets isn't getting us there. So we're just back to a longer outlook. That's what we signed up for.

Yep.

If NYR miss the playoffs both this AND next season, it's panic button time. As in jettison as many vets as possible and try again time.

 

[SRHRangers]

That's the problem.

Most of the vets have NMC's lol.

How Krieder got one rivals where Hoffa's body is as a mystery.

 

[kovazub94]

I dont think its as dire as you're making it sound. The issue will be on the back end not the forwards group.

and I'd rather he PK but take time off of PP1.

My concern with PK is that it’s very taxing energy wise, and since Zibanejad’s issue at least partially seems to relate to his conditioning and the Rangers do have options there - it would make sense to let him sit PK out.

 

[Machinehead]

Yep.

If NYR miss the playoffs both this AND next season, it's panic button time. As in jettison as many vets as possible and try again time.

It is what it is from the vets but if we get to that point, we're probably not seeing the contributions from younger players that we would like. At which point, you have to rethink how the rebuild is going internally.

Pieces are in place but that's only half the work.

 

[Cmox]

Folks, it's very obvious what Mika's problems are...

...he needs a haircut.

He just got one. Are you saying to just cut it all off? Lol

 

[Irishguy42]

He just got one. Are you saying to just cut it all off? Lol

Did I stutter?

 

[kovazub94]

I will not voice concerns over Quinn’s developmental “style” at least until after this season is over or maybe even 1/4 or 1/2 way through 21-22 season. The Rangers have just too many cases over 2+ years span of development moving in the right direction (not looking of a sample size that’s less than 20 games long - which would be nuts).

If thing progress on the current path, it would be statistically questionable that TWO highly skilled top forwards have such difficulty performing in Quinn’s system. THEN Should we question whether Quinn’s approach puts limit on development of creativity especially when it comes to teenagers in order to teach them how to play the right way?

On the other hand it’s completely not impossible that we will see Kakko exploding offensively at any moment and Lafreniere showing more and longer glimpses of offensive creativity toward the end of the season and then picking up consistency early into 21-22.

 

[Kendo]

Yea if you assume Zibanejad is signing for what, $9M in 2022, replacing that with Eichel's hit seems like a good trade. Now sure you could instead hope Barkov hits UFA or deal for him as a rental and give him the money instead.

The potential hold up I see for Eichel is, what is the NHL piece going back? DeAngelo might have fit this summer, that ship sailed. Including Chytil would be basically punting on any semblance of C depth yet again.

I would think it would take 4 pieces that hurt. Maybe more. So something like Chytil, Top 5-10 pick this year, Nils/Kravtsov, Robertson/Jones.

Lucking into signing Barkov for free would be the dream. We can let Mika walk with no hard feelings or sunken cost.
Extended Mika + for an extended Barkov could be a real conversation at next season's deadline. Just throwing that out there.

Getting Eichel for a package that doesn't include Laf or KK would be the 2nd best option.
Given that we're saying Laf and KK are untouchable in the deal, those pieces don't actually hurt that bad.
I think they really need a "1 or 2C type" in the deal, and we can't offer that without an extended Mika where he waives. If that happens, then cool.
I don't think Chytil (2 or 3C) does it for them. If it does, then cool.

A 1st, whether 21 or 22, protected or not, is assumed. Cool.

I happen to think that Lundkvist is tailor made to fit their team. We hold on to Schneider for the long haul. Very cool.

Kravtsov would be okay value for them, but Reinhart, Thompson, and Quinn are there to progress while Okposo lives out his contract.
If they see Reinhart as a C going forward, then Chytil and Kravtsov become that much more palatable, maybe?

They seem to have their own "Robertsons and Joneses," but the framework is there for a deal.

 

[Machinehead]

I just hit this vegan ice cream shop. I like the vegan kind. The oat milk has a nice consistency. Anyway, I was order 87. We're getting Crosby.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I just hit this vegan ice cream shop.

Ohhhh.... You’re one of those.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I just hit this vegan ice cream shop. I like the vegan kind. The oat milk has a nice consistency. Anyway, I was order 87. We're getting Crosby.

oat milk is great but almond milk is my fav

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Cashew milk is the GOAT for sure

 

[Machinehead]

Ohhhh.... You’re one of those.

Actually no, I just think vegan ice cream is thicker and holds together better than the dairy-based stuff. Less meltage.

I seek it out voluntarily from time to time.

 

[huerter]

Did I imagine it or did an ITK say we were getting two roster forwards for TDA and then there was no follow up?

 

[Trxjw]

OOOPH! While i can agree to some point in not wanting to trade either Laf or Kakko, i do actually believe we have the peices without adding either of them. But back on topic. IF one of them had to be included for Eichel i would honestly grab Eichel and run. Listen, As we all KNOW eichel is a top 10 player in the nhl. We HOPE that Kakko or Laf will SOMEDAY be on par with Eichel. The years between them is concerning but Eichel is still only 24yo!

Thats like saying you wouldnt trade the #1 overall pick in Trevor Lawrence for Desaun Watson. Take the KNOWN top player in the league.

I'll take my chances with the two elite prospects. It's not like I'm keeping Zac Jones off the table. These are kids that are very sure bets to be great players in this league and they're younger, on ELCs, and could potentially be had on cheaper 2nd contracts as well.

 

[duhmetreE]

can we get the ADA for Bennett trade done already.

 

[NYRKING30]

As of right now out of all the kids that are on ELC’s the only one that is due and should get a very hefty raise is Adam Fox. Even Chytil is not going to cost that much, now the question is do the Rangers wanna gamble with any of them and want to offer the money and hoping the kids outperform those deals is the question.

 

[Synergy27]

I don't think it ever really did, necessarily. Kreider isn't getting younger and Zibanejad's next contract was always looming. The team was going to change anyway when those problems hit. With that in mind, contending was probably always down the line.

What I hoped is that maybe we'd compete during their ELC years. It is now evident that the current group of vets isn't getting us there. So we're just back to a longer outlook. That's what we signed up for.

I don’t know. It’s not clear to me that they push as hard as they did for Panarin if they didn’t draft Kakko. The brass directly said that winning that lottery accelerated the rebuild. They were not expecting him to be a 20 point player at this point.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

As of right now out of all the kids that are on ELC’s the only one that is due and should get a very hefty raise is Adam Fox. Even Chytil is not going to cost that much, now the question is do the Rangers wanna gamble with any of them and want to offer the money and hoping the kids outperform those deals is the question.

Too early to say with laf and kak but I'd try to sign chytil longterm

 

[Machinehead]

I don’t know. It’s not clear to me that they push as hard as they did for Panarin if they didn’t draft Kakko. The brass directly said that winning that lottery accelerated the rebuild. They were not expecting him to be a 20 point player at this point.

I guess it did in the sense that the franchise players, or the guys who should be anyway, are here now. That doesn't mean instant contending.