Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXI - All along the Watch Tower

[haveandare]

I’d be very reluctant about Eichel. Going to cost a lot and has big contact we don’t really have room for, and all of that to add another guy who is currently sulking while things aren’t going his way - the very thing people are already raging about half this team for.

 

[Fitzy]

I’d be very reluctant about Eichel. Going to cost a lot and has big contact we don’t really have room for, and all of that to add another guy who is currently sulking while things aren’t going his way - the very thing people are already raging about half this team for.

We have room for one more big contract, the question is does it go to Zibanejad or someone else.

Lots of cap space opening up next season.

 

[RickChartraw]

consider me very nervous about giving a big contract to Zib, unfortunately that $ went to the guy who can jump out of pool.

 

[DanielBrassard]

We have room for one more big contract, the question is does it go to Zibanejad or someone else.

Lots of cap space opening up next season.

It's reallocating Zibanejad's dollars to a player who is younger and quite frankly better. That is worth moving the assets it would cost to acquire him in my eyes. The other option is to sign Zibanejad and hope he doesn't drop off too quickly or hope Barkov reaches UFA. Not sure I love either.

 

[cheech70]

I’d be very reluctant about Eichel. Going to cost a lot and has big contact we don’t really have room for, and all of that to add another guy who is currently sulking while things aren’t going his way - the very thing people are already raging about half this team for.

I liked what I saw last game against us. Elite talent is hard to come by even drafting 1 & 2 OA. The challenge is how do you manage Barkov's availability vs Eichels? If we are going to splurge using our assets we need to get this right. Florida and there success this year makes Barkov less likely in the near future.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Yea if you assume Zibanejad is signing for what, $9M in 2022, replacing that with Eichel's hit seems like a good trade. Now sure you could instead hope Barkov hits UFA or deal for him as a rental and give him the money instead.

The potential hold up I see for Eichel is, what is the NHL piece going back? DeAngelo might have fit this summer, that ship sailed. Including Chytil would be basically punting on any semblance of C depth yet again.

I would think it would take 4 pieces that hurt. Maybe more. So something like Chytil, Top 5-10 pick this year, Nils/Kravtsov, Robertson/Jones.

 

[duhmetreE]

Ridiculous. How about just a bit more patience AT THIS POINT until Chytil is back to address Ziba’s spot?

why?

Rooney and Blackwell are better than Zibs and Howden right now. whats the problem?

 

[Fitzy]

Only if you can trade Zibanejad also this offseason and recoup some (Obviously not close to all) of the lost value given up for Eichel. Ideally a young center with a strong defensive acumen for the third line would be welcome. Someone like a young Anisimov or Mike York.

We won't be able to keep both without sacrificing one of the untouchables like Fox, Kakko, Laf, Shesty. Too much money tied up unless they find some way to make Kreider disappear.

 

[Off Sides]

What do people believe Lindgren, Shesterkin, Fox, Chytil, Kakko, Miller, Lafreniere will receive off their entry level contracts?

Not that things have gone great this season, yet it may be prudent to reserve some cap space should the Rangers and the player(s) find a compromise on contracts that go beyond just bridging them once their entry levels end.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Eichel is an elite player. Not at all worried about him showing his frustrations in Buffalo. He's been on that team for 6 years in which he's had 3 different coaches and 3 different general managers. Every roster they've iced has finished in the bottom-10 and have never come close to sniffing the playoffs. I can't blame him one bit for checking out. Buffalo is the most poorly run franchise in the NHL aside from Arizona.

That being said, if the deal to get Eichel has to include Lafreniere or Kakko then I wouldn't do it. I'll take my chances finding good complimentary centers for both of them instead of one elite center who will cost us another potentially elite player.

OOOPH! While i can agree to some point in not wanting to trade either Laf or Kakko, i do actually believe we have the peices without adding either of them. But back on topic. IF one of them had to be included for Eichel i would honestly grab Eichel and run. Listen, As we all KNOW eichel is a top 10 player in the nhl. We HOPE that Kakko or Laf will SOMEDAY be on par with Eichel. The years between them is concerning but Eichel is still only 24yo!

Thats like saying you wouldnt trade the #1 overall pick in Trevor Lawrence for Desaun Watson. Take the KNOWN top player in the league.

 

[Fitzy]

What do people believe Lindgren, Shesterkin, Fox, Chytil, Kakko, Miller, Lafreniere will receive off their entry level contracts?

Not that things have gone great this season, yet it may be prudent to reserve some cap space should the Rangers and the player(s) find a compromise on contracts that go beyond just bridging them once their entry levels end.

Honestly it's hard to predict until the final season of the respective ELCs. Really hard. Management will likely have to choose who they go all-in on for 8year deals right off the ELC, and who they want to bridge for short term benefits while risking an even higher AAV down the line.

My guess is that guys like Lindgren, Chytil, and Shesty will get bridges. Jury is out on everyone else.

 

[Fitzy]

OOOPH! While i can agree to some point in not wanting to trade either Laf or Kakko, i do actually believe we have the peices without adding either of them. But back on topic. IF one of them had to be included for Eichel i would honestly grab Eichel and run. Listen, As we all KNOW eichel is a top 10 player in the nhl. We HOPE that Kakko or Laf will SOMEDAY be on par with Eichel. The years between them is concerning but Eichel is still only 24yo!

Thats like saying you wouldnt trade the #1 overall pick in Trevor Lawrence for Desaun Watson. Take the KNOWN top player in the league.

This ignores salary considerations. If we traded all our youngest players for currently better established NHLers we'd be 20 mil over the cap.

You need cost controlled producers. Eichel is a little below market value due to RFA years but he's still paid handsomely. 10 million a year for a PPG player is fair, but it's no steal.

 

[kovazub94]

why?

Rooney and Blackwell are better than Zibs and Howden right now. whats the problem?

Did they play against Bergeron line? Against Sid?Against Backstrom and Ovi? Looking good against other teams’ 4th liners is not the same as playing against these future HOFers.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Yea if you assume Zibanejad is signing for what, $9M in 2022, replacing that with Eichel's hit seems like a good trade. Now sure you could instead hope Barkov hits UFA or deal for him as a rental and give him the money instead.

The potential hold up I see for Eichel is, what is the NHL piece going back? DeAngelo might have fit this summer, that ship sailed. Including Chytil would be basically punting on any semblance of C depth yet again.

I would think it would take 4 pieces that hurt. Maybe more. So something like Chytil, Top 5-10 pick this year, Nils/Kravtsov, Robertson/Jones.

That seems about right. Might even have to be both of Lundkvist and Kravtsov.

 

[Off Sides]

Honestly it's hard to predict until the final season of the respective ELCs. Really hard. Management will likely have to choose who they go all-in on for 8year deals right off the ELC, and who they want to bridge for short term benefits while risking an even higher AAV down the line.

My guess is that guys like Lindgren, Chytil, and Shesty will get bridges. Jury is out on everyone else.

I think the other thing to keep in mind concerning Shesterkin, he is I think only 3 years beyond this season from being UFA eligible. So if they do bridge him and things go well that next contract may be very expensive.

 

[Fitzy]

I think the other thing to keep in mind concerning Shesterkin, he is I think only 3 years beyond this season from being UFA eligible. So if they do bridge him and things go well that next contract may be very expensive.

Yep. Bridge too many RFA's and we will end up having to pick which ones we have to trade away before their final RFA season.

Can't keep everyone, gotta keep the cupboard stocked and keep bringing in new young producers on ELCs, combined with bargain bin vets.

 

[duhmetreE]

Did they play against Bergeron line? Against Sid?Against Backstrom and Ovi? Looking good against other teams’ 4th liners is not the same as playing against these future HOFers.

so? that has nothing to do with what I'm saying. take away a few ES shifts and PP1 time.

 

[Kendo]

2022 Onward: Best case scenario

Bread - Mika - Buch
Laf - Flip - KK
CK - 2021 1st - Kravtsov
Lemmy - Howden - Goat - Barron (losing 1 in expansion)
Black Aces

Mika rebounds and plays at his career average 55+ points or better for the next 5 years (even if we pay for a couple more "down years" beyond that).
Chytil learns to take faceoffs decent enough to be the spark plug for our young line to take off.
We draft a C, and they happen to be "ready."

We can always upgrade our 4th line players, and occasionally they "click."
Even if they all flop, that top 9 can remain as our core for quite a while under the cap...as long as three minor miracles occur. LOL


2022 Onward: Worst case scenario
Bread - ??? - Buch
Laf - ??? - KK
CK - Flip - Kravtsov
Black Aces

Mika continues to play at a level where he is actually overpaid at his current salary (which would have been INSANE to suggest a year ago), and unfortunately walks.
Chytil is still a serviceable 30+ point 3rd line guy that you like to have around and can fill in at C and slot up if needed, but doesn't really help our C depth at all.
We draft the only D in the top 10 to ultimately flop, instead of the C that we all love and is both a need and BPA.

Even in the darkest timeline, that 3rd line can still be VERY good, even if CK is overpaid in that role.

All of the question marks between now and when we start to force open our window are at C.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

This ignores salary considerations. If we traded all our youngest players for currently better established NHLers we'd be 20 mil over the cap.

You need cost controlled producers. Eichel is a little below market value due to RFA years but he's still paid handsomely. 10 million a year for a PPG player is fair, but it's no steal.

What top players in the nhl are getting this year and years to follow its a steal. We signed Panarin for over 11 and we would have to sign Zibs for around 9, maybe alot less now with his play this year? but Eichel is alot better than Zibs , younger, still getting better, and is already on par with panarin.

the cap space ...you are swapping in the trade anyway. Z

I see a Buch(do for a raise), Robertson, 2022 1st, 2023 1st, Chytl for Eichel.

 

[kovazub94]

so? that has nothing to do with what I'm saying. take away a few ES shifts and PP1 time.

No, that’s not what you’re saying (or you have issues expressing yourself). Check back the post I responded to - you explicitly put Zibanejad on the 4th line.

 

[Off Sides]

Yep. Bridge too many RFA's and we will end up having to pick which ones we have to trade away before their final RFA season.

Can't keep everyone, gotta keep the cupboard stocked and keep bringing in new young producers on ELCs, combined with bargain bin vets.

It seems, and seems is the big variable here, that most players who sign longer term off their entry levels do not lose their trade value even if they do carry a relatively large cap hit. Skjei still returning a 1st for example.

On the flip side it seems like when bridges happen the player starts to really focus on looking at how much his UFA years could garner.

Some players are more open than others towards going longer term right off their entry levels, yet if a compromise can be found I tend to think I'd like to see them go that direction.

 

[duhmetreE]

No, that’s not what you’re saying (or you have issues expressing yourself). Check back the post I responded to - you explicitly put Zibanejad on the 4th line.

Lemieux Zibanejad PDG/Gauthier
Panarin Strome Kakko
Lafreniere Rooney Buchnevich
Kreider Blackwell Howden

is it better if I do it like this? does the order really matter?

Zibs played with Fast and Names a couple of years ago. Get him back to playing simple hockey and with less PP1 time.

 

[Synergy27]

This ignores salary considerations. If we traded all our youngest players for currently better established NHLers we'd be 20 mil over the cap.

You need cost controlled producers. Eichel is a little below market value due to RFA years but he's still paid handsomely. 10 million a year for a PPG player is fair, but it's no steal.

This is exactly why the poor early returns from both Laf and Kakko is so concerning. The extreme value in getting those top picks is the near assurance of them generating near elite production at entry level cost. If these guys are on non-elite prospect development timelines, it throws the whole plan in disarray.

Instead of having cheap, high level scoring support for Panarin, you have Panarin and nothing else. If Laf and Kakko need 3-4 years to grow into their potential, that’s 3-4 years of wasted Panarin prime.

The only upside is that Laf and Kakko’s second contracts might not be as expensive as planned. But it still throws the plan out of whack.

 

[kovazub94]

Lemieux Zibanejad PDG/Gauthier
Panarin Strome Kakko
Lafreniere Rooney Buchnevich
Kreider Blackwell Howden

is it better if I do it like this? does the order really matter?

Zibs played with Fast and Names a couple of years ago. Get him back to playing simple hockey and with less PP1 time.

Not better. Because now it implies Lemieux, PDG / Gauthier facing top opposition to play against.

The Rangers are essentially stuck with Zibanejad as a center for top two lines until Chytil returns.

Limiting minutes and exposure? @Fitzy made a suggestion to take his minutes on PK. Maybe take away opportunities to fail at one timers. Etc

 

[SRHRangers]

This is exactly why the poor early returns from both Laf and Kakko is so concerning. The extreme value in getting those top picks is the near assurance of them generating near elite production at entry level cost. If these guys are on non-elite prospect development timelines, it throws the whole plan in disarray.

Instead of having cheap, high level scoring support for Panarin, you have Panarin and nothing else. If Laf and Kakko need 3-4 years to grow into their potential, that’s 3-4 years of wasted Panarin prime.

The only upside is that Laf and Kakko’s second contracts might not be as expensive as planned. But it still throws the plan out of whack.

Which goes back to why sign Bread and Trouba in the middle of a rebuild to begin with.

Not complaining. Just didn't go with the narrative.