Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXI: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Amazing Kreiderman]

RETIRES? Buddy, you know they're getting Lundkvist, Kakko and a 1st for him.

Has to be at least 1 Ryan in the trade

 

[Trxjw]

Drury certainly has plenty of experience with unfortunate NMC's, lol.

If Zibanejad does get traded for younger players, I actually wouldn't be surprised if @Machinehead idea comes true and Getzlaf is brought in on a short term basis to provide some leadership. His fancy stats have been decent, he's above average on faceoffs. I think he could play the Steve Rucchin role here for a year.

Didn't Getzlaf say he wanted to retire in Anaheim? Not sure he'd sign up for a year with a bubble team. On paper and in theory I think he makes sense but not sure he's actually interested in something like that.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

I know... admittedly I'll be in denial that Kreider can't be moved until it's too late.

doesn't he have to submit a list of teams or something like that? "Starting July 1, 2018: Player submits a 11 team no trade list."

 

[MrAlmost]

Is Conor Garland at all a possibilty? He is like the evolved version Blackwell and Fast to play with Panarin. I've seen him play both wings, but I will admit that I haven't watched enough to know if he is predominantly a RW or LW. He is small, but plays with pace and with an edge.

 

[Ola]

Im not the least bit concerned about Kakko or Lafreniere’s development at this point, given how limited their usage has been.

Im just so thankful that we lucked out with the draft lottery and Adam Fox, because of Dolan was going to get impatient after three seasons when we only had a skeleton crew of prospects...

Just my experience, but I’ve had a strong opinion for a long time — especially founded when looking at teams like Edmonton — that you really hurt a young kid if he get little usage when he is 18-20 y/o. When I search old posts, I can only like see a year back, but I’ve made some extensive posts on this topic m long long before I even knew who Quinn, Kakko and Laf were.

I think Kakko’s last season was on the verge, but still OK. This year I think Kakko and Laf both had way too small roles in the above perspective.

I definitely hope I my fears aren’t well founded, but if someone told me we would get a No 1 and No 2 pick 5 years ago and develop like we have, I would have added another wall of words to the boards strongly arguing why it was a horrible idea.

 

[LokiDog]

Is Conor Garland at all a possibilty? He is like the evolved version Blackwell and Fast to play with Panarin. I've seen him play both wings, but I will admit that I haven't watched enough to know if he is predominantly a RW or LW. He is small, but plays with pace and with an edge.

I believe he plays mostly RW. But our wings are crowded. Anyone playing with Panarin is in the top six. Which means one of Kakko/Kravtsov isn’t. And we’re not bringing back Buch. A year on the third line for one of the kids is fine, but how long do we keep them out of the top six? Garland would be a great third liner, but a costly one, both to acquire and to keep.

There’s no real way around it:

Panarin, Lafreniere top six LW
Kakko, Kravtsov, Buch top six RW


If we keep Buch, we pretty much might as well package Kravtsov with Chytil for a legit center. What’s the point in giving Buch 5M+ to play third line or burying a guy like Kravtsov down the lineup? Cash in on the asset to fill needs. Get less highly paid energy guys like Fast, Bennett, etc. for the third line.

Kreider is a third liner basically no matter what from here on. Lafreniere should 100% be in the top six next season. We’ve got to find a way to move him. A soft, overpaid 30+ year old third liner getting 6M for 6 years? He can still have a top six role on plenty of teams and give them net front presence and size, but he doesn’t use that size well enough for us to be keeping him.

I’d be fine with eventually having Garland on the third line. Or Buch if he was taking 4.5M but we know that’s not happening. So it’s either Buch in the top six or Kravtsov.

Panarin, Laf, Kakko aren’t going anywhere. That leaves one top six wing spot. I’m fine with having depth on the third line, but price becomes a factor.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Would you trade Tkachuk?

God, no. But if the standard is common sense we can rule out every GM ever. From the shows I follow, the reporters that have been covering it, there is a shake up coming in Calgary. The team is annoyed with Tkachuk. Again, can you trade everyone else out?

I wouldn't have traded ROR from Buffalo because he didn't like losing. He didn't ask out, but he was critical of management so they spun the story and traded a solution away. You were right earlier though. It's moot because of position.

 

[bernmeister]

What if Bernmeister has been Dolan the entire time?

Has anyone ever seen Bern and Dolan in the same room?

I like it. My spin of the Bern: ...

I see my name invoked, not entirely in vain.
I exercise my right to respond to my name being invoked.
I remain ostracized from this thread for speaking the truth about Nieves, even tho most here, while they disagree w/me on substance, recognize my free speech right to an opinion on the subject.
This is despite most of our board inviting me to post.

I exercise my right to respond to the above quotes.
I am not Dolan.

Remind me at another time and place to provide a redacted copy of one of my all time favorite keepsakes, a hand written letter from then GM Dave DeBusschere. Again, story for another time.

I post on the boards infrequently these days as I am working towards something truly significant, which I will announce before the Stanley Cup is awarded.

However, in light of recent events, I will try to make time for public letters to both Dolan and Bettman.

I am hopeful that our executive chair has learned from his experience, including earlier mistakes, with the Knicks.
There is no quick fix.
Build, slow if nec but steady.
Amass assets. Then....

We currently only have adequate supply of bluest blue chip elcs for our internal needs, nec for roster depth + ahead of the curve cap mgmt which = good roster flexibility.
We do not have a surplus.
If we continue to draft well, we can THEN use what will be surplus assets to = draft capital for a splurge.
Not before.

That is a big IF, since I liked JD/GM selections.
Will their replacements do as well?

When I get a chance in another thread I will post what imo we should be doing going forward as things now stand.

peace out

 

[MrAlmost]

I believe he plays mostly RW. But our wings are crowded. Anyone playing with Panarin is in the top six. Which means one of Kakko/Kravtsov isn’t. And we’re not bringing back Buch. A year on the third line for one of the kids is fine, but how long do we keep them out of the top six? Garland would be a great third liner, but a costly one, both to acquire and to keep.

There’s no real way around it:

Panarin, Lafreniere top six LW
Kakko, Kravtsov, Buch top six RW


If we keep Buch, we pretty much might as well package Kravtsov with Chytil for a legit center. What’s the point in giving Buch 5M+ to play third line or burying a guy like Kravtsov down the lineup? Cash in on the asset to fill needs. Get less highly paid energy guys like Fast, Bennett, etc. for the third line.

Kreider is a third liner basically no matter what from here on. Lafreniere should 100% be in the top six next season. We’ve got to find a way to move him. A soft, overpaid 30+ year old third liner getting 6M for 6 years? He can still have a top six role on plenty of teams and give them net front presence and size, but he doesn’t use that size well enough for us to be keeping him.

I’d be fine with eventually having Garland on the third line. Or Buch if he was taking 4.5M but we know that’s not happening. So it’s either Buch in the top six or Kravtsov.

Panarin, Laf, Kakko aren’t going anywhere. That leaves one top six wing spot. I’m fine with having depth on the third line, but price becomes a factor.

Fair points all around. I am assuming that Buch is gone. Whether for a center, a left d, or picks I think they move him.

As for the rest, yeah that makes sense, but I wouldn't rush to throw Krav into the top 6. He hit the wall after his first few games. Of course, he played a whole KHL season prior to joining so that isn't surprising. So he might be good for top 6 starting fresh in New York all year, but depth is an issue. And if we are playing Kakko and Krav as the top 6 RWs, I'd rather someone like Garland as the 3 RW than Buch. Buch has developed a great 2 way game and he plays hard, but so does Garland and he is younger, faster, grittier and might be cheaper money wise.

Of course, he might not even be available for all those reasons. I guess I am in a bit of a daze still from our exciting 48 hours. haha

 

[LokiDog]

God, no. But if the standard is common sense we can rule out every GM ever. From the shows I follow, the reporters that have been covering it, there is a shake up coming in Calgary. The team is annoyed with Tkachuk. Again, can you trade everyone else out?

I wouldn't have traded ROR from Buffalo because he didn't like losing. He didn't ask out, but he was critical of management so they spun the story and traded a solution away. You were right earlier though. It's moot because of position.

I’d send a HAUL for Tkachuk + Lindholm but Trouba or Kreider would have to be involved as well. Could flip Strome/Buch elsewhere to recoup on prospects/assets.

 

[LokiDog]

Fair points all around. I am assuming that Buch is gone. Whether for a center, a left d, or picks I think they move him.

As for the rest, yeah that makes sense, but I wouldn't rush to throw Krav into the top 6. He hit the wall after his first few games. Of course, he played a whole KHL season prior to joining so that isn't surprising. So he might be good for top 6 starting fresh in New York all year, but depth is an issue. And if we are playing Kakko and Krav as the top 6 RWs, I'd rather someone like Garland as the 3 RW than Buch. Buch has developed a great 2 way game and he plays hard, but so does Garland and he is younger, faster, grittier and might be cheaper money wise.

Of course, he might not even be available for all those reasons. I guess I am in a bit of a daze still from our exciting 48 hours. haha

I agree with all of that. Garland could man the second line with Panarin for 1-2 years until Kravtsov is ready. The flip side is I’m not sure I love gambling on Kravtsov to essentially develop into Buch. How much better can he be? Will he be a penalty killer and a guy who stands up for the team too? If Kreider were moved (so unfortunately unlikely) I’d keep Buch and shop Krav or switch him to LW. He has played both wings.

 

[Ola]

Trading Kakko now would be a huge, huge blunder. He just went from a liability to one of the best defensive players on the ice, and he was drafted for his insane offensive skillset. I am extremely confident he’s going to be a gamer next year and if we move him we’ll 100% regret it. Any GM insisting on him in return for nearly anyone is pushing their luck and should not be appeased.

I love Buch and how he’s grown but who to trade of those 3, you choose Buch easily.

I don’t disagree, but like I said, if someone comes available that isn’t included in “nearly everyone”, I would consider it.

 

[Ola]

I agree with all of that. Garland could man the second line with Panarin for 1-2 years until Kravtsov is ready. The flip side is I’m not sure I love gambling on Kravtsov to essentially develop into Buch. How much better can he be? Will he be a penalty killer and a guy who stands up for the team too? If Kreider were moved (so unfortunately unlikely) I’d keep Buch and shop Krav or switch him to LW. He has played both wings.

Kravy has really been impressive these last weeks in many areas. Could be a few years away, but he should be able to develop a lot physically. He definitely has a higher ceiling than buch.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Torts is coming back to NY, book it. Dolan wants truculence and toffness

 

[Nickmo82]

What does the team look like this time next year, assuming we're in the hunt for the post-season and Dolan has traded away all our prospects?

 

[Fvital92]

We will re-sign Buch, trade Chytil and Kravtsov (lets pray we don't ship Eichel)+ for Eichel, overpay some career 3rd liners for toughness and maybe a LD.

We will make the playoffs, will get eliminated in the 1st round and in 3 years we won't be able to sign some of our best players for cap reasons.

How exciting!

Lets just be thankful that we will have Fox for the next decade on the ice to distract us from our mediocrity.

 

[LokiDog]

We will re-sign Buch, trade Chytil and Kravtsov (lets pray we don't ship Eichel)+ for Eichel, overpay some career 3rd liners for toughness and maybe a LD.

We will make the playoffs, will get eliminated in the 1st round and in 3 years we won't be able to sign some of our best players for cap reasons.

How exciting!

I think that Drury’s main job is moving Kreider in the next 1.5 years and Trouba within 3.

If Kreider went to Buffalo with Chytil, Kravtsov and a 1st that would account for 80% of Eichel’s cap hit. It would make Strome available who could be flipped for third line help or to recoup a good prospect. Buch could be re-signed for likely less than Strome.

Trouba would have to be moved eventually which could be tough but not impossible. Age is on his side and there will be rebuilding teams who may take on a veteran with mileage left who can play 22+ minutes.

Panarin - Eichel - Kakko
Laf - Zib - Buch
X - Barron - X
X - X - X
Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Schneider
Robertson - Lundkvist
Shesterkin

Eichel isn’t my target. I’d rather Lindholm and a premium 3C for depth, with Barron on the wing, but it’s not an entirely unmanageable situation. Kreider and Trouba deals need to be moved. That’s just the way this works out. As the team progresses, those two won’t have roles and their cap hits are simply far too large for us to carry in depth positions, but they’re not broken down or albatross players, just redundant to what we’re building toward. Wing and RHD are the deepest parts of the organization.

 

[Fitzy]

Just my experience, but I’ve had a strong opinion for a long time — especially founded when looking at teams like Edmonton — that you really hurt a young kid if he get little usage when he is 18-20 y/o. When I search old posts, I can only like see a year back, but I’ve made some extensive posts on this topic m long long before I even knew who Quinn, Kakko and Laf were.

I think Kakko’s last season was on the verge, but still OK. This year I think Kakko and Laf both had way too small roles in the above perspective.

I definitely hope I my fears aren’t well founded, but if someone told me we would get a No 1 and No 2 pick 5 years ago and develop like we have, I would have added another wall of words to the boards strongly arguing why it was a horrible idea.

Well I say this with the asterisk attached that we start to use the two of them a lot more next season.

I want Lafreniere on PP1 and the first line, and Kakko one of the key penalty killers and on line 2.

If Buch stays, Kreider and Kravstov should be the third line wingers. If Buchnevich goes the situation changes.

But if we see the same minutes for Laf and Kakko next year because we are buying into this Dolan win now by riding the vets mentality??? Then I’ll be concerned. Very concerned

 

[Trxjw]

God, no. But if the standard is common sense we can rule out every GM ever. From the shows I follow, the reporters that have been covering it, there is a shake up coming in Calgary. The team is annoyed with Tkachuk. Again, can you trade everyone else out?

I wouldn't have traded ROR from Buffalo because he didn't like losing. He didn't ask out, but he was critical of management so they spun the story and traded a solution away. You were right earlier though. It's moot because of position.

This is really the key point. It's very hard to make trades in today's NHL. So if you're a GM trying to shake things up and you have a situation like Calgary does, what are your options? If Tkachuk is causing a rift in the room you can either trade him and be done with it or you can try and trade all of the other guys he's causing friction with. It's far easier to make one trade than it is to try and make several. The Flames would get a serious haul for Tkachuk.

In terms of impact to the Rangers, he's definitely the kind of player we could use. If we swung a trade with Buch to get a center, that frees up a spot on the right and I believe Tkachuk can play both wings. I cringe at what it would take to land him though.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

I think that Drury’s main job is moving Kreider in the next 1.5 years and Trouba within 3.

If Kreider went to Buffalo with Chytil, Kravtsov and a 1st that would account for 80% of Eichel’s cap hit. It would make Strome available who could be flipped for third line help or to recoup a good prospect. Buch could be re-signed for likely less than Strome.

Trouba would have to be moved eventually which could be tough but not impossible. Age is on his side and there will be rebuilding teams who may take on a veteran with mileage left who can play 22+ minutes.

Panarin - Eichel - Kakko
Laf - Zib - Buch
X - Barron - X
X - X - X
Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Schneider
Robertson - Lundkvist
Shesterkin

Eichel isn’t my target. I’d rather Lindholm and a premium 3C for depth, with Barron on the wing, but it’s not an entirely unmanageable situation. Kreider and Trouba deals need to be moved. That’s just the way this works out. As the team progresses, those two won’t have roles and their cap hits are simply far too large for us to carry in depth positions, but they’re not broken down or albatross players, just redundant to what we’re building toward. Wing and RHD are the deepest parts of the organization.

My take
Laf Eichel Kakko
Pan Ziba Kassian
Krieds Barron Kratvsov
Martinook Sheahan Rooney
Olivier Blackwell
Miller Trouba
Lind Fox
Oleksiak Lundkvist
Smith

 

[Tob]

Craig Button on Vancouver based talk show Donnie and Dhali talking about the Rangers instilling the kind of grit that Sathers alluded to. Paraphrasing, teams have to not hide or worry about instigator penalties, if you feel the need to deal with something or start something, you don't worry about the instigator, we'll kill it off. A tougher mentality is something that has to be instill over time and the players have to develop that.

This is something that needs to change with the next coach. Quinn is too strict with his course. Lemieux over the years became more and more timid because of that "unnecessary" penalty in scrums. Kakko and Gauthier benched more than a few times for fairly routine penalties. Smith benched and scratched because of that style, until the players, team, and owner were embarrassed then all of a sudden he's golden boy reserved for fighting Tom Wilson. The softness in this team is not necessarily the way the players are or the way the roster is built as Quinn claims. It's the weak leadership from Quinn that took the instinct to be salty and mean out of the players.

 

[Chytilmania]

Craig Button on Vancouver based talk show Donnie and Dhali talking about the Rangers instilling the kind of grit that Sathers alluded to. Paraphrasing, teams have to not hide or worry about instigator penalties, if you feel the need to deal with something or start something, you don't worry about the instigator, we'll kill it off. A tougher mentality is something that has to be instill over time and the players have to develop that.

This is something that needs to change with the next coach. Quinn is too strict with his course. Lemieux over the years became more and more timid because of that "unnecessary" penalty in scrums. Kakko and Gauthier benched more than a few times for fairly routine penalties. Smith benched and scratched because of that style, until the players, team, and owner was embarrassed then all of a sudden he's golden boy reserved for fighting Tom Wilson. The softness in this team is not necessarily the way the players are or the way the roster is built as Quinn claims. It's the weak leadership from Quinn that took the instinct to be salty and mean out of the players.

Did it with Lemieux and Tony too. I think most of our problems are coming from the coach, not the construction of the roster. And I still think this summer Gorton was going to make his moves after having another season to evaluate the team and the coach.

 

[Overcast]

What???

Gorton had a massive noggin

No no, his head is big but his FACE is small.

Maybe I'm crazy lmao.

No you're right, it's like..you know in MS Paint where you can resize an image with the things on the edge of the image, but doing that doesn't retain the image ratio. Someone did that but just with Gorton's eyes/nose/etc and forgot to also resize his head too.

 

[Kravtsov420]

No you're right, it's like..you know in MS Paint where you can resize an image with the things on the edge of the image, but doing that doesn't retain the image ratio. Someone did that but just with Gorton's eyes/nose/etc and forgot to also resize his head too.

I think Gorton looks like one of the Canadians on South Park. Really simple face, and just black circles for eyes, no whites in the eyes

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

I think that Drury’s main job is moving Kreider in the next 1.5 years and Trouba within 3.

If Kreider went to Buffalo with Chytil, Kravtsov and a 1st that would account for 80% of Eichel’s cap hit. It would make Strome available who could be flipped for third line help or to recoup a good prospect. Buch could be re-signed for likely less than Strome.

Trouba would have to be moved eventually which could be tough but not impossible. Age is on his side and there will be rebuilding teams who may take on a veteran with mileage left who can play 22+ minutes.

Panarin - Eichel - Kakko
Laf - Zib - Buch
X - Barron - X
X - X - X
Lindgren - Fox
Miller - Schneider
Robertson - Lundkvist
Shesterkin

Eichel isn’t my target. I’d rather Lindholm and a premium 3C for depth, with Barron on the wing, but it’s not an entirely unmanageable situation. Kreider and Trouba deals need to be moved. That’s just the way this works out. As the team progresses, those two won’t have roles and their cap hits are simply far too large for us to carry in depth positions, but they’re not broken down or albatross players, just redundant to what we’re building toward. Wing and RHD are the deepest parts of the organization.

Sooo, why is Kreider waiving his NMC to go to Buffalo?

Why is Trouba waiving his NMC when his wife wants to be in NY as a doctor?