Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXX: Going 8-0 to close out might not be enough!

[Leetch3]

I usually don’t read Larry’s shit but he Nailed it. This loss should leave a bad taste in Gorts mouth to make changes.

start with the coach and then the players

last night shouldn't change anything. this team is not built to compete in the playoffs, last night just re-enforced what should have been known all year. you never overreact to one game good or bad. but if management wasn't already well aware of the fact that we are far from a completed team then we have bigger issues than losing a game

 

[jay from jersey]

The team is in a real pickle with Zibanejad.

The price for his next deal has likely come down due to the flat cap and he’s been trash most of this year. And that contract has a solid chance of being a bad one assuming they do sign him

But they have no one else to replace him. And he’s a UFA next summer so it’s not like his trade value is super high

TBH I’m kinda concerned about Zibby as well. It’s not just the amount of cash/term they have to give him on next deal, but he also has a concussion history and he hasn’t exactly dominated in playoffs. He’s excellent against lesser competition, but in a 7 game series against some of the beasts in the East, I think they would eat his lunch. He may score, but I’m not sold on face offs, him being able to go up against other teams top lines. They’re was a stretch last year where he did, but it only lasted for about a month and a half 2 months. On the other hand, I think his game will age well for what he brings. He doesn’t really heavy on his speed, as long as he can keep his shot and fine tune it he’s going to score a lot. Just like Ovechkin, even if he loses a touch of speed his shot is still devastating. Not comparing the players. Just the style of play. I for 1 would sell High

 

[Leetch3]

20 years ago two teams could shake up their cores in a blockbuster trade. Now, you’ve got the salary cap and every decent player has a no movement clause. Really limits the discussion.

i don't think we need to shake up or change the core as much as build up the support around that core.

 

[Savant]

Oh, and Crab > Lobster

Crab is too much work for too little payoff

 

[kovazub94]

TBH I’m kinda concerned about Zibby as well. It’s not just the amount of cash/term they have to give him on next deal, but he also has a concussion history and he hasn’t exactly dominated in playoffs. He’s excellent against lesser competition, but in a 7 game series against some of the beasts in the East, I think they would eat his lunch. He may score, but I’m not sold on face offs, him being able to go up against other teams top lines. They’re was a stretch last year where he did, but it only lasted for about a month and a half 2 months. On the other hand, I think his game will age well for what he brings. He doesn’t really heavy on his speed, as long as he can keep his shot and fine tune it he’s going to score a lot. Just like Ovechkin, even if he loses a touch of speed his shot is still devastating. Not comparing the players. Just the style of play. I for 1 would sell High

We really don't know how Zibanejad performs in playoffs as his entering his prime came around the time when the Rangers as the team started the rebuild.

Otherwise it's true that it would be great to know if Zibanejad, Panarin, Strome, Buchnevich etc - those already hitting their prime - have another gear to raise their intensity for playoffs. Doesn't meant that we need , for example, Zibanejad to go from 1.1 ppg to 1.2 ppg but whether he can stay at least as 0.9 ppg and make the opponents become less effective.

 

[duhmetreE]

Zibanejad was easily our best forward in the last playoffs we've made. 2017. That's even before he 'broke out'.

Buchnevich has to be moved. It's the unfortunate truth of having too much talent... that's also similar stylistically. Roster needs to be balanced.

 

[duhmetreE]

Replace Strome with a 2way north-south jammy center
Replace Buch with a 2way beefcake.

 

[Daves a mess]

Early April. "We have two huge games against the Isles at the end of April." "Gonna show a lot about where we are."

End of April. Gets outscored 10-1

Post game interview when asked about knowing how the Isles play and having to play that way to succeed not only against them but in the playoffs Quinn...

"Yes, but we are not built that way".

Obvious, but I found the way he expressed that kinda interesting.

 

[Off Sides]

absolutely you want to make decisions on them this offseason...if you decide to keep them and extend them now, they still play next year on their current cap hits. but if you decide that they don't fit or you can't afford them because they are asking for too much, you should get far more for them in a trade with a year left than as pending UFAs.

both having 1 year left on good contracts gives us the luxury of being able to punt the decision and we aren't forced to do anything if the right deal (trade or contract) isn't there...but I think the smart move is to figure it out if you can

Plus if they do punt, and if the Rangers are in the playoff picture next deadline with them, then what?

They end up having to trade them while in that playoff position, or extend them where the player(s) have leverage, or self rent them. At that point none of those will likely look like good options.

It would kind of make it better if the Rangers had to sell them as rentals by being out of the playoff position, and no one wants that either.

So yeah in my opinion they need to make those choices this off-season.

 

[Ola]

Early April. "We have two huge games against the Isles at the end of April." "Gonna show a lot about where we are."

End of April. Gets outscored 10-1

Post game interview when asked about knowing how the Isles play and having to play that way to succeed not only against them but in the playoffs Quinn...

"Yes, but we are not built that way".

Obvious, but I found the way he expressed that kinda interesting.

This is the narrative so many around the team is pushing.

Last time I checked the Islanders haven’t won anything in a while. How can Tampa win and beat the Islanders when they don’t play that way? The West is full of teams like the Islanders. Dallas got out of the West last year. Many of the heavier teams in the West doesn’t even make the POs.

I just have a very hard time understanding why we are making the Islanders the state of the art team that we should mirror.

Carolina pwned us in the POs. This is their current top 9:

The biggest difference between us and Carolina is that they have a team with players that pulls in the same direction and a coach which the players listen too.

DQ is just clueless. He wants a team built like the Islanders? Be careful what you wish for. The players know that if they play like DQ wants, they will look like crap and he will rush to throw them under the bus in the post game interviews.

 

[Off Sides]

And I also think Gorton more or less should be pushing for a Buch trade. I love him, but he will get paid too much the way his contract is structured, and we got depth at that wing.

Not that I really want them to trade Buch, yet say they do, his value is tied up in that last RFA year unless some extension upon trade is worked out between him and that new team.

I don't see the Rangers extending him long term, and then being like, congrats on the extension, now pack your shit, you're going to somewhere you did not really want to go to for that extension.

Which brings me to where again I do not understand this teams value on just making the playoffs. Buch, Strome, Zbad were all worth more at the trade deadline than they are now. Last deadline Kreider was worth more by trade than extension. Fast self rented.

They are still going by the anything can happen idea if they just make the playoffs over asset management.

 

[haohmaru]

Crab is too much work for too little payoff

Kinda like hot chicks?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

This is the narrative so many around the team is pushing.

Last time I checked the Islanders haven’t won anything in a while. How can Tampa win and beat the Islanders when they don’t play that way? The West is full of teams like the Islanders. Dallas got out of the West last year. Many of the heavier teams in the West doesn’t even make the POs.

I just have a very hard time understanding why we are making the Islanders the state of the art team that we should mirror.

Carolina pwned us in the POs. This is their current top 9:
View attachment 427997

The biggest difference between us and Carolina is that they have a team with players that pulls in the same direction and a coach which the players listen too.

DQ is just clueless. He wants a team built like the Islanders? Be careful what you wish for. The players know that if they play like DQ wants, they will look like crap and he will rush to throw them under the bus in the post game interviews.

The difference is they are 2 years ahead of us in their build. Panarin is an awesome pickup but getting him changed everyone's expectations and it shouldn't have

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

20 years ago two teams could shake up their cores in a blockbuster trade. Now, you’ve got the salary cap and every decent player has a no movement clause. Really limits the discussion.

change the coach. There's your shakeup.

 

[DutchShamrock]

I don't think you have to build a team with specific personnel. You play your game better then them, you don't parrot the other team and beat them at their game. The problem is, I don't know what our game is.

Quinn fights the style of his stars. Go north-south, play straight line, shoot, pressure the net. That's not a system, it's a philosophy. The big guys ignore him and beat up on the bad teams, like @Ola points out. But what else are we doing in the system? Trap, fore check, transition? Are we looking for traffic in front, shots the point, a cycle, offense from the counter attack? Quinn imposes his will on the young forwards, and they seem to be more effective in areas this season. But the results aren't necessarily there.

So the guys that blow him off pound on the bottom feeders. The guys that listen tread water and have little production.

Martin made an immediate impact on everything he supervises. After 3 years, I don't know what Quinn is all about. It's not developing. It's not contending.

We don't need to mimic the Isles. But we do need a clear plan and everyone working together. I don't even know what we learned this season or how to mold the team. Outside of Fox, the kids aren't in meaningful roles. The stars get the stage and the youth support.

The start of the season people said I will be happy if we miss the playoffs but the kids played a prominent role. With those parameters, I'm not sure if we have an answer.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Yeah, definitely more of a pipe dream. I will say, if Dallas misses the playoffs maybe they look to shake things up. Even then though, Hintz wouldn't be the guy they move. But hey, we definitely have the capital so ya never know. I hope the Rangers will go knocking on doors instead of waiting to be tied to a guy like Eichel by default. I'm wondering where you could shop a package of Strome, Lundkvist or Schneider, Robertson or Jones, and some picks and a roster player to? Would that be an offer that would interest the Stars to listen?

With Vancouvers quasi rebuild failing and having some large contracts they have to ride out longer, I wonder if there is a door to knock where we could offer up some of our cheap capital for Horvat?

His tools make a lot of sense for us behind Zibanejad and with our wing talent.

 

[Kocur Dill]

This is the narrative so many around the team is pushing.

Last time I checked the Islanders haven’t won anything in a while. How can Tampa win and beat the Islanders when they don’t play that way? The West is full of teams like the Islanders. Dallas got out of the West last year. Many of the heavier teams in the West doesn’t even make the POs.

I just have a very hard time understanding why we are making the Islanders the state of the art team that we should mirror.

Carolina pwned us in the POs. This is their current top 9:
View attachment 427997

The biggest difference between us and Carolina is that they have a team with players that pulls in the same direction and a coach which the players listen too.

DQ is just clueless. He wants a team built like the Islanders? Be careful what you wish for. The players know that if they play like DQ wants, they will look like crap and he will rush to throw them under the bus in the post game interviews.

The two glaring weakness we had with Carolina during the play in that I saw were:

1) We could not penatrate their zone defence. Forced to make outside shots the entire series.

2) Martinook was tenaciously killing our transition game.

That is a very effective way to limit the style of play our stars seem to excel at.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

This is the narrative so many around the team is pushing.

Last time I checked the Islanders haven’t won anything in a while. How can Tampa win and beat the Islanders when they don’t play that way? The West is full of teams like the Islanders. Dallas got out of the West last year. Many of the heavier teams in the West doesn’t even make the POs.

I just have a very hard time understanding why we are making the Islanders the state of the art team that we should mirror.

Carolina pwned us in the POs. This is their current top 9:
View attachment 427997

The biggest difference between us and Carolina is that they have a team with players that pulls in the same direction and a coach which the players listen too.

DQ is just clueless. He wants a team built like the Islanders? Be careful what you wish for. The players know that if they play like DQ wants, they will look like crap and he will rush to throw them under the bus in the post game interviews.

Yeah, when I heard DQ interview last night and he talked about the difference between the make up of the Rangers and the Islanders, the first thing that came to mind is how will Gorton and Davidson perceive those comments?

 

[Bruner4329]

Nothing has changed from last year's playoff. When you get to playing tight checking games we don't have the players. All the pretty passes we see when the ice opens up are not there. You need to grind things out and pounce on mistakes. We have too many finesse type players and no hard nose type 2 way players. Guys like Strome and Buch get exposed in games like last night. Even Zibs and Panerin. You can get away with a few of these guys but not with the volume we have. Also our fore checking strategy to start is not good but in a game like last night its non existent. This team too often gives up shots and tries to dump it in and chase. Again with this roster not the best strategy. Finally even though this roster presents some limits as mentioned, I do think it is becoming a habit that we are easily out coached and game planned in big games. I think we need a new coach to get us to the next level.

 

[kovazub94]

Early April. "We have two huge games against the Isles at the end of April." "Gonna show a lot about where we are."

End of April. Gets outscored 10-1

Post game interview when asked about knowing how the Isles play and having to play that way to succeed not only against them but in the playoffs Quinn...

"Yes, but we are not built that way".

Obvious, but I found the way he expressed that kinda interesting.

Did you expect him to point fingers at his players AV style?

Quinn was absolutely right that these game will show where the team's at in it's development. Even if they made it to playoffs this season via wildcard scenario if such was available - they would've bounced quickly and hard. It's crazy to expect something different from the youngest team in the league that also misses two of it's more senior guys in terms of playoff experience in Trouba and Kreider.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Rangers shakeup coming after no-show Islanders loss

Brooks really nailed this one. Hopefully the front office 1. sees it the same way and 2. has the ability to execute on changes via willing trade partners.

 

[kovazub94]

...

The biggest difference between us and Carolina is that they have a team with players that pulls in the same direction and a coach which the players listen too.

DQ is just clueless. He wants a team built like the Islanders? Be careful what you wish for. The players know that if they play like DQ wants, they will look like crap and he will rush to throw them under the bus in the post game interviews.

Whiffed so hard you might have injured yourself.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

With Vancouvers quasi rebuild failing and having some large contracts they have to ride out longer, I wonder if there is a door to knock where we could offer up some of our cheap capital for Horvat?

His tools make a lot of sense for us behind Zibanejad and with our wing talent.

With the assets that have been accumulated, I'm going to them if they're in dire need and trying to pry Petterson. It's time to find someone top flight I think.

 

[Kodiak]

absolutely you want to make decisions on them this offseason...if you decide to keep them and extend them now, they still play next year on their current cap hits. but if you decide that they don't fit or you can't afford them because they are asking for too much, you should get far more for them in a trade with a year left than as pending UFAs.

both having 1 year left on good contracts gives us the luxury of being able to punt the decision and we aren't forced to do anything if the right deal (trade or contract) isn't there...but I think the smart move is to figure it out if you can

This has been said many times in the last two weeks or so, but this is why we need to see Chytil play with Panarin in the last few games. Strome could be moved in the offseason for the right deal, and if Chytil and Panarin look good together, that changes the outlook.

 

[kovazub94]

The difference is they are 2 years ahead of us in their build. Panarin is an awesome pickup but getting him changed everyone's expectations and it shouldn't have

How many times 2-3 years ago on this board as outsiders it was noted that Carolina is moving in the right direction was still too young to break through? Now it's us and fans can't see the big picture because they are too close and too invested.