Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXII: “The Year of the Plague’s” last one...

[TheGortonConspiracy]

This is where the Rangers surplus of D can really help in a trade for Roslovic. Would something around Hajek + a 2nd get it done?

I wouldn't want to give up Robertson yet.

Not even close IMO.

 

[Ruggs225]

I wouldnt even give up hajek and a 2nd.

maybe hajek and a 4th but that would be a max.

this is a 3rd/4th liner why give up so much?

Giving up a second for him is how u deplete a farm system for not much on the NHL club.

 

[Ruggs225]

Also for the lets trade for Roslovic camp... if u trade for him do u protect him in expansion draft? Who do u not protect now?

i dont think people actually realize how much the expansion draft will affect trades this year.

so again why trade hajek and a 2nd for a person who will most likely be taken in expansion draft, or the person who he replaced such as lemieux/howden for protection.

trade now looks infinitely worse now

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I think Howden’s value around the league, much like guys before him, would surprise most people on this board.

Yeah I agree he’s probably more valuable than some give him credit for

I’m just saying the Rangers win that trade assuming Roslovic isn’t god awful, which Brett Howden has been thus far

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

so again why trade hajek and a 2nd for a person who will most likely be taken in expansion draft, or the person who he replaced such as lemieux/howden for protection.

Howden stinks, we should be thankful if Seattle takes him off our hands

This way we’re no longer subjected to David Quinn trying to make 3rd liner Brett Howden a thing

 

[eco's bones]

He is definitely that terrible. Maybe he'll get better but as of now he's one of the worst players in the league. I think the most likely scenario is in 3 years he will be out of the league. I don't think people are disappointed that he doesn't look like a top 6 player. I think they are disappointed that he looks incapable of even playing the role he has (4C/PK).

Whenever I see the line 'worst player(s) in the league' I know any kind of conversation from thereon is going nowhere. You've already made up your mind on this player and there really is no point arguing with you about it. I will say that I don't agree.

 

[Ruggs225]

Howden stinks, we should be thankful if Seattle takes him off our hands

This way we’re no longer subjected to David Quinn trying to make 3rd liner Brett Howden a thing

because a 22 year old cant get better. And he put up 10 less pts than roslovic. And u get to keep a second.

Big over reaction. Howden is not nearly as bad as many people make him out to be

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

because a 22 year old cant get better. And he put up 10 less pts than roslovic. And u get to keep a second.

Big over reaction. Howden is not nearly as bad as many people make him out to be

It’s not really an overreaction haha. Aside from points, he’s statistically one of the worst players in the league the last two seasons

He can get better but I’m just not seeing a future with him on this team.

What he desperately needed/still needs is time in the AHL but he’s never going to get it

 

[Fitzy]

I think the challenge with Howdens progression is that it’s difficult to see where he has to go with development. He’s below average in almost every element of his game, nothing really stands out as a quality he could use as a springboard for improvement.

 

[Raspewtin]

arguments for howden:
-he's youngish
-he was good in the WHL
-Quinn likes him
-he scores at a lower 3rd line rate
-the MSG propaganda machine like him

arguments against howden:
-his on ice play
-his results at the NHL level
-every statistic ever
-the eye test
-his lack of tools and toolbox
-the fact that he's had like 15 good NHL games in his career with plenty of TOI and tons of different linemates

I'm tired of the "you already made up your mind he's a whipping boy" remarks. he's a bad player that makes everyone around him worse. this board has impossible standards for someone they like to be bad. he needs to start sucker punching his own goalie and putting pucks into his own net for the undeserved shine to come off him.

you don't have to dislike howden or think he sucks but don't act like you don't know why members of this board think really poorly of him. it's been addressed ad nauseum. you've heard why numerous times. you just think the arguments for (young, coach, etc) him outweigh them.

 

[Vitto79]

I think the challenge with Howdens progression is that it’s difficult to see where he has to go with development. He’s below average in almost every element of his game, nothing really stands out as a quality he could use as a springboard for improvement.

if he started or even had an AHL stint it would of likely helped him. Most here are just surprised they didn’t Atleast flip him and Lias

reality is Quinn likes how hard Howden works and he does little things better then what they saw in Lias

this year is important to see who out of Howden , Gauthier , Lemieux they protect in expansion

I assume Strome will be exposed cause he’s likely not taken unless Seattle wants to flip him at the deadline for a 2nd and ignore a younger player to pick . Even Hajek

 

[UnSandvich]

if he started or even had an AHL stint it would of likely helped him. Most here are just surprised they didn’t Atleast flip him and Lias

reality is Quinn likes how hard Howden works and he does little things better then what they saw in Lias

this year is important to see who out of Howden , Gauthier , Lemieux they protect in expansion

I assume Strome will be exposed cause he’s likely not taken unless Seattle wants to flip him at the deadline for a 2nd and ignore a younger player to pick . Even Hajek

I'm all for loving a player who does all the little things. But he's gotta be able to do the big things too, like y'know, play at an NHL level? And not a Bottom 10 player in the league level either

 

[Raspewtin]

I'm all for loving a player who does all the little things. But he's gotta be able to do the big things too, like y'know, play at an NHL level? And not a Bottom 10 player in the league level either

If Howden was only scoring 10-15 points a season but actually did the little things and was solid defensively I would be quite happy with him. It just so happens that the little things and defense are his absolute worst skill.

 

[TominNC]

I'm not ready to give up on Howden just yet. Still very young and I trust Rangers management more than HF posters.

 

[aufheben]

We can't click reply on a locked thread. You elitists have no idea of our struggles.

Oh.

Best just to copy/paste the text and tag the user.

 

[Mikos87]

I don’t particularly like Howden’s game, but I’m still not sure if I’d make that trade because I’m not crazy about Roslovic either. I might take the guy who could carve out a 4C role rather than the offensive guy who would never stick in our top 6 and isn’t made for the bottom 6 role.

I’m probably in the minority though... sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don’t. Are you making this trade because you actually like Roslovic or because you just don’t care for Howden?

That's a great question. I thought Howden was the only forward that played his role well in the playoffs. Even JD gave him a couple of shout outs. To me, when Howden isn't trying to be something he is not, or worried about contributing offensively... he does play well. I thought the stretch he had before the shutdown, around Feb, Brett played very well. Especially in that COL game. But I happen to be a believer of having a left and right shot option on the 4th line. Especially with two natural centers. I think Rooney can eat those 4th line center minutes, and you can have Jack slot in on that 4th line and/or push for a spot against Gauthier.

With both Jack and Gauth, you have two right shots, both guys who probably fancy themselves as offensive guys (which they've proven in the AHL).... but neither guy is skilled enough to be in a primary offensive role. In other words, you have two guys that need to change how they play, and embrace a different role to make millions of dollars. Not every player can achieve this. That's why you have flame-outs. Emerson Etem is an example of a kid who lit up 60 in juniors, couldn't score in the NHL, didn't change his game despite his physical gifts, then was out of the league.

From my perspective, the Rangers have a competent replacement for Howden's minutes, this trade would give them another forward with some upside. Between Jack and Gauth, the better player can be protected, while the other one gets exposed.

 

[will1066]

I'm not ready to give up on Howden just yet. Still very young and I trust Rangers management more than HF posters.

He showed pretty good improvement in his 2-way game toward the latter part of last season. Perhaps maturity kicking in.

 

[SA16]

Whenever I see the line 'worst player(s) in the league' I know any kind of conversation from thereon is going nowhere. You've already made up your mind on this player and there really is no point arguing with you about it. I will say that I don't agree.

So no regular player is among the worst players in the league? He’s one of them by almost all metrics. Someone has to be by definition. He’s young and could get better but based on what I’ve seen from watching his play over two years I don’t see it happening.

 

[TominNC]

So no regular player is among the worst players in the league? He’s one of them by almost all metrics. Someone has to be by definition. He’s young and could get better but based on what I’ve seen from watching his play over two years I don’t see it happening.

Somehow that argument doesn't work when questioning Jack Johnson who is old, isn't getting better and is the worst at his position.

 

[Avery16]

Howden vs Roslovic to me seems like a grass is always greener situation.

Not opposed to acquiring Roslovic, but it has to be a salary neutral or cutting move, with the expansion draft in mind. Howden likely still protected, and Roslovic could assume that slot if the two are exchanged. If say, Hajek is the piece moved for Roslovic, then its more of an exchange of a player would be left exposed for another that we very well may also expose.

Roslovic would improve the bottom-six depth, assuming that the cost isn't other bottom-six depth.

 

[Fitzy]

Not interested in bottom 6 players who holdout over contract disputes.

It’s rarely worth the hassle.

 

[eco's bones]

That's a great question. I thought Howden was the only forward that played his role well in the playoffs. Even JD gave him a couple of shout outs. To me, when Howden isn't trying to be something he is not, or worried about contributing offensively... he does play well. I thought the stretch he had before the shutdown, around Feb, Brett played very well. Especially in that COL game. But I happen to be a believer of having a left and right shot option on the 4th line. Especially with two natural centers. I think Rooney can eat those 4th line center minutes, and you can have Jack slot in on that 4th line and/or push for a spot against Gauthier.

With both Jack and Gauth, you have two right shots, both guys who probably fancy themselves as offensive guys (which they've proven in the AHL).... but neither guy is skilled enough to be in a primary offensive role. In other words, you have two guys that need to change how they play, and embrace a different role to make millions of dollars. Not every player can achieve this. That's why you have flame-outs. Emerson Etem is an example of a kid who lit up 60 in juniors, couldn't score in the NHL, didn't change his game despite his physical gifts, then was out of the league.

From my perspective, the Rangers have a competent replacement for Howden's minutes, this trade would give them another forward with some upside. Between Jack and Gauth, the better player can be protected, while the other one gets exposed.

I actually agree with most of this. The one thing I'm not ready to say is Gauthier is going to be a more valuable asset than Howden. Gauthier is bigger, faster and stronger but he's not shown he's more physical yet. Julian is also one year older than Howden and really has yet to prove himself in a role at all. He has good hands and finished a lot of pucks at the AHL level--he's yet to score his first NHL goal. So I'm very much wait and see on him still. As well if Julian is going to play in a bottom 6 role it is the extras that accentuate the value of the player--and those extras include physical play (especially if you're bigger and stronger), defensive responsibility and penalty killing. Howden might be lesser in some areas to Gauthier but he's more of a know commodity for the role he has fit into.

On the question of Lemieux I consider him a more valuable player than Howden mainly because his physical play is something we have in short supply. That said if something egregiously dumb in a hockey game from one of our forwards he's the culprit about 50% of the time. He needs to smarten up as a player. He takes too many dumb penalties and he forces too many plays particularly at the oppositions blue line that get stuffed and end with him laying on his back watching play going back in the other direction. He needs to realize what his skills are better and do a lot more dumping and chasing and a lot more of letting his linemates handle the puck while he creates havoc in front of the opposition goal. Basically he needs to simplify his game and then I think we'll get him at his most effective.

 

[Inferno]

I'm higher on howden that most. But I'd trade him for roslovic 10 times out of 10

 

[eco's bones]

It’s not really an overreaction haha. Aside from points, he’s statistically one of the worst players in the league the last two seasons

He can get better but I’m just not seeing a future with him on this team.

What he desperately needed/still needs is time in the AHL but he’s never going to get it

I'm not married to this guy. I actually think Howden is going to have a decent career but I expect he'll play for several NHL teams before it's over. So I expect the Rangers to move on from him someday and finding a replacement should not be that hard.

I don't like the worst player language. I never have. Every team in the league has players who are Howden equivalent or on the cusp of NHL careers without high upside. It's not like God above has specially picked the Rangers to always have the worst player(s). To me it's a cheap way to target a player and getting others to go along with you is negative and destructive group think. Our team is going on the upswing and there is so much to be positive and optimistic about right now. Better to focus around that and quit scapegoating guys all the time. If we need to find another home for Howden I don't think it will be that hard and I think there will a number of teams interested.

 

[Machinehead]

Appropos of nothing.