Speculation: Roster Building Thread IV (2021 Offseason) - Bob Dylan turns 80 & "The times they are a changing!"

[Fitzy]

Well obviously one player isn’t going to make or break for a cup but with his play if you have him playing 2C for your team you’re not winning anything.

And for the price he’s redundant. Chytil can produce at the same rate for half the price if given the minutes

That final assertion... we just don’t know that. You hope he can, but his play style is so north south compared to Stromes east west there’s no certainty that he works with Panarin any better than Gomez did with Jagr after we decided to move on from Nylander

 

[jay from jersey]

If the Rangers are having Zibanejad take any sort of difficult matchups, they are gonna have a tough time winning in the postseason. He had a dreadful season defensively and is IMO pretty overrated in that regard. Investing $8M+ in a guy who is a big question mark in terms of his ability to play well in all situations and in all different styles of games seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

Can’t argue with that. He looked atrocious and unmotivated a lot of times this year. That’s the thing that scares me most with Zibby by a mile. If you go back a year, we were matching him up against teams 1C and he was doing a pretty good job. Was better at the face off dot as well.
After he gets his fat deal, does he like DJing more the. Hockey again? Does he put a majority of points up on the PP while the rest of his game has huge gaping holes thru it? What Zibby are we getting for 5-6 years at big money???
I’m on record of saying if Eichel was healthy I 100% rather have him as our 1C going forward over Zib Eichel being untradeable due to injury and Barkov likely stayin In FLA has killed our 2 best options for a legit upgrade.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Rangers trade Buchnevich, Miller, Strome for Larkin and Bertuzzi? would this be fair

 

[Raspewtin]

If the Rangers are having Zibanejad take any sort of difficult matchups, they are gonna have a tough time winning in the postseason. He had a dreadful season defensively and is IMO pretty overrated in that regard. Investing $8M+ in a guy who is a big question mark in terms of his ability to play well in all situations and in all different styles of games seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

zibanejad shouldn’t be any kind of shutdown guy, no question. but that’s consistent with most teams, it’s not like tampa tries to match up point and kucherov, or chicago tried to match up kane’s line. there’s nothing wrong with having a high octane offense line

 

[Raspewtin]

Strome’s compete level is trash. He hardly ever finishes checks. He quite often just does the drive by on a forecheck and turning back towards his own net. Great he fought old man Williams in the Carolina series and like the rest of the team fought in that circus Washington game. Strome has no bite.

Strome isn’t a center. Chytil isn’t a center. This team needs legitimate centers that know how to play the position, on both sides of the puck.

if chytil is not a center why has every pro game he has played since he turned 18 involved him playing center ?

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Rangers trade Buchnevich, Miller, Strome for Larkin and Bertuzzi? would this be fair

Strome and Buch make no sense for Detroit since neither player is likely extending there. They need Larkin. They’re not going to go with Veleno or Rasmussen as their 1C lol.

 

[CLW]

Can’t argue with that. He looked atrocious and unmotivated a lot of times this year. That’s the thing that scares me most with Zibby by a mile. If you go back a year, we were matching him up against teams 1C and he was doing a pretty good job. Was better at the face off dot as well.
After he gets his fat deal, does he like DJing more the. Hockey again? Does he put a majority of points up on the PP while the rest of his game has huge gaping holes thru it? What Zibby are we getting for 5-6 years at big money???
I’m on record of saying if Eichel was healthy I 100% rather have him as our 1C going forward over Zib Eichel being untraceable due to injury and Barkov likely stayin In FLA has killed our 2 best options for a legit upgrade.

The NYR locker room and surroundings were not alright. The ADA drama, the Panarin drama, the unknown "drama(s) you guys (media) don't even know about" the players hinted at during the exit interviews, disconnect with the coach, Zib having serious covid and so on, just a bizarre series of events. That's why it's so hard to draw conclusions from this season and why a solid fresh start is needed under a competent coach.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I don’t know how far apart this is value wise but in my head moving Strome to Nashville for Ekholm makes some sense. Both 1 year away in UFA, and there’s a fit for both players on the opposite team.

I’d also try to snag Trenin out of there, he’s a very solid 4th liner.

Maybe something like Strome + Hajek for Ekholm + Trenin idk

 

[Raspewtin]

zibanejad is becoming underrated on this board at this point

yeah he was disappointing, yes he did a lot of little things wrong this year, but i feel like some of us are retroactively discrediting how good he has been to justify not wanting to extend him and i dont think you need to do that

he has gaping holes in his game? yeah he’s mostly a great PP producer and he’s overrated defensively but so are the majority of elite centers, he’s no better or worse than basically all of them outside of Bergeron Oreilly and Kopitar who are in their own class. plenty of amazing centers are mostly good PP players anyway. no player in this league hits PPG or around it without a lot of PP points. you might as well go call Giroux, Backstrom, or Stamkos overrated, what’s the point?

he’s a high volume shooter and elite goal scorer that is just ok defensively and is very strong on the power play. you act like that’s a player you can’t win with. Kuznetsov is one of the worst defensive players in hockey and has been a distraction for half of his career but he was the 1C on a championship team. chicago won 2 cups with waiver wire caliber players at their 2c position. come o.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Everyone ready to win the lottery again tomorrow?

No way they win the lottery after dolan’s letter.

 

[CLW]

zibanejad shouldn’t be any kind of shutdown guy, no question. but that’s consistent with most teams, it’s not like tampa tries to match up point and kucherov, or chicago tried to match up kane’s line. there’s nothing wrong with having a high octane offense line

The problem comes if the 2nd line is Panarin and Strome who also want to be high octane offense, and demand that the third guy on that line to do the defensive and offensive heavy lifting. It's just too much for one guy and makes the line, and the team, lopsided.

Colorado have a high octane offense, but they also work hard defensively without exception. Even with their high octane offense and with undersized d-men they are stingy defensively. Not sure if you can say they have any shut down specialists either, it's more that they all work within the same system of skating hard and moving the puck fast. I think Zib would be perfectly fine if not even thrive in such a system.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

zibanejad shouldn’t be any kind of shutdown guy, no question. but that’s consistent with most teams, it’s not like tampa tries to match up point and kucherov, or chicago tried to match up kane’s line. there’s nothing wrong with having a high octane offense line

I agree with you on this for sure generally. He’s an elite offensive producer and there is of course room for that on contending teams.

My concern comes in with overall roster construction, specifically along with Panarin investing $18M+ on two players who are great at offense but have serious deficiencies elsewhere.

The line Panarin is on will in all likelihood need to be sheltered to some degree. And he is good enough to produce at an elite level with Ryan Strome.

In my view the ultimate role for Zibanejad is next to Panarin in an offensive role. I don’t think he has the complete game to fill any other role on a contender, which is why I bring up my opinion that his defensive game is overrated (Carp in particular makes him sound like Patrice Bergeron). Therefore I question if paying him $8M+ to do that is the best cap allocation.

 

[jay from jersey]

The NYR locker room and surroundings were not alright. The ADA drama, the Panarin drama, the unknown "drama(s) you guys (media) don't even know about" the players hinted at during the exit interviews, disconnect with the coach, Zib having serious covid and so on, just a bizarre series of events. That's why it's so hard to draw conclusions from this season and why a solid fresh start is needed under a competent coach.

Don’t forget his diet either. He dropped 10-15 lbs as well. That had to have a huge effect on the physical side of the game. Along with the covid after effects

 

[gravey9]

I agree with you on this for sure generally. He’s an elite offensive producer and there is of course room for that on contending teams.

My concern comes in with overall roster construction, specifically along with Panarin investing $18M+ on two players who are great at offense but have serious deficiencies elsewhere.

The line Panarin is on will in all likelihood need to be sheltered to some degree. And he is good enough to produce at an elite level with Ryan Strome.

In my view the ultimate role for Zibanejad is next to Panarin in an offensive role. I don’t think he has the complete game to fill any other role on a contender, which is why I bring up my opinion that his defensive game is overrated (Carp in particular makes him sound like Patrice Bergeron). Therefore I question if paying him $8M+ to do that is the best cap allocation.

I think it all comes down to getting rid of Strome for a more well rounded center and finding a coach that can get his vets to play a more well-rounded game. I think we're judging the roster based on what DQ could get out of them. But I often wonder what having the same roster with the addition of a 2-3 well rounded players + a new coach does. I think a lot. I do think 1 top 6 player who plays with more grit is a good idea, plus 1 very solid 2-way middle six center (who can win a faceoff) and a strong 5-6 vet d-man + a more solid system does for the whole outlook of the squad. And if all three of those guys can bring some leadership too than I think the whole complexion changes. And we're looking at a vastly different squad. Even if we're not a contender yet with that roster, we are likely a playoff team.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I hope I'm not the only one who doesn't want Reaves on this team. He's almost as scummy as Wilson, but because he's an "enforcer", people don't care.

The only reason Reaves and Wilson are still effective in the NHL is because the league doesn't care about player safety and allows them to injure opponents on purpose. The league has been throwing its players under the bus for decades to promote their game. Players literally died as a result of this shit and the NHL does not care.

 

[Ola]

zibanejad is becoming underrated on this board at this point

yeah he was disappointing, yes he did a lot of little things wrong this year, but i feel like some of us are retroactively discrediting how good he has been to justify not wanting to extend him and i dont think you need to do that

he has gaping holes in his game? yeah he’s mostly a great PP producer and he’s overrated defensively but so are the majority of elite centers, he’s no better or worse than basically all of them outside of Bergeron Oreilly and Kopitar who are in their own class. plenty of amazing centers are mostly good PP players anyway. no player in this league hits PPG or around it without a lot of PP points. you might as well go call Giroux, Backstrom, or Stamkos overrated, what’s the point?

he’s a high volume shooter and elite goal scorer that is just ok defensively and is very strong on the power play. you act like that’s a player you can’t win with. Kuznetsov is one of the worst defensive players in hockey and has been a distraction for half of his career but he was the 1C on a championship team. chicago won 2 cups with waiver wire caliber players at their 2c position. come o.

I imagine that he can be a perfect center on a line that does not face the top units of the other teams. I love how engaged he is offensively, how much he communicates with his linemates and in general just how much that engagement has improved his play the last years. Think that is infectious.

But what does it take to match-up against the perfection line? Against Aho? Against Barzal? Against Point's line? You must be able to create a line that just can play a brand of hockey that these guys, these lines, cannot match. That bar is not set on some kind of average, it is really really high. In that context, I don't believe that Zibs can center that line with the likly wingers he would have on this team. And the stats back that up too, right? I think we must build that line around Panarin. And I don't think Strome can be the center of that line either. Neither does Chytil fill the requirements.

One caveat is that with the coach we have had, zero focus from a team perspective has been put on "playing the right way" against the absolute top lines against us. Playing Quinn's "N-S style" against Boston's top line is certainly the worst way to counter it, every time you give the puck away you have to work awfully hard to get to borrow it for a short while again. You must counter it by doing what they do and better. With a proper coach, could Howden be an alternative to center Panarin's line? He got the engine. If he is told, "every time you get the puck, slow down and get it to a D or one of your wingers so that we can regroup and make an attack count". Probably not, but we need that engine and ability to cover a ton of ice on that line because that is what they do.

I've said all along, Laf got what it takes. We need that at center ice. We won't get that at center ice in a trade or through UFA. Move Laf to center.

 

[rangersfansince08]

i think Laf is our guy and we’ll see him emerge next season

Agreed. not just Laf but I would say Kakko is also our guy who can do this. I would split them up so each of the top two lines has a guy who can open up for the other guys.

 

[rangersfansince08]

“Not a player you win with” is in my mind a meaningless platitude. Lecavalier had the same criticism leveled against him. Teams win or lose games. To suggest having one player is a deal breaker for a cup is silly

I agree with your point but we have more than a few of these guys. That entire second line we iced of Panarin-Strome-Blackwell would get shut down in the playoffs imo. Panarin's job isn't to win loose pucks but he would benefit from a center and right wing who can.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

“Not a player you win with” is in my mind a meaningless platitude. Lecavalier had the same criticism leveled against him. Teams win or lose games. To suggest having one player is a deal breaker for a cup is silly

Exactly.

Alfredsson, Datsuyk, Sakic... They didn't win a play off series until their mid-20s (at least) and yet nobody calls them "players you can't win with".

 

[wafflepadsave]

Don’t forget his diet either. He dropped 10-15 lbs as well. That had to have a huge effect on the physical side of the game. Along with the covid after effects

Yeah I lost 13 lbs a month ago and still haven’t put it back on.

 

[Vitto79]

I don't necessarily think this is the case. At least, it shouldn't be under a new coach. You evaluate in training camp, preseason and then all during the regular season. Depth players can sit sometimes. That is what they are there for.

well guys like a Goodrow, Cisikas , Nosek etc signed as a ufa would not be here to sit they would bump a Kravtsov and Barron down the depth chart

sure Blackwell , Rooney could sit

I think Howden and Gauthier are gone

 

[Vitto79]

I don’t know how far apart this is value wise but in my head moving Strome to Nashville for Ekholm makes some sense. Both 1 year away in UFA, and there’s a fit for both players on the opposite team.

I’d also try to snag Trenin out of there, he’s a very solid 4th liner.

Maybe something like Strome + Hajek for Ekholm + Trenin idk

I would think Ekholm goes for picks and prospects before expansion or they go 4-4 and just keep him imo

if not 4-4 Fabbro is gone in expansion

 

[Ola]

The only reason Reaves and Wilson are still effective in the NHL is because the league doesn't care about player safety and allows them to injure opponents on purpose. The league has been throwing its players under the bus for decades to promote their game. Players literally died as a result of this shit and the NHL does not care.

Couldn't agree more.

As things are right now, we just need to enable someone like say Filip Chytil or K'Andre Miller and the likes to show some emotions on the ice -- without knowing that if they did, they would be chased around the ice by Wilson, Dillon, Chara and the likes while NOBODY would back them up. And they way we have been exposed, nothing short of an over correction will do.

 

[RGY]

if chytil is not a center why has every pro game he has played since he turned 18 involved him playing center ?

Ummm circumstance? ....

 

[rangersfansince08]

That's why he isn't rated as top center. Strome and Panarin together is a headache, not a strength.

Zib, Strome and Danault forces Chytil out. The team does not yet know what it has in him, if he, like say Roope Hintz, finds a two way game in a couple of years he will be much more valuable than Strome is now.

Yea Panarin-Danult-Chytil could be a good line imo.