Speculation: Roster Building Thread III (2021 Offseason) - “Simple Jack”, "Will over Skill", "Drury in a Hurry"?

[UAGoalieGuy]

If he signs a long term deal. I would absolutely be shocked if it was sub $8MM. Think you are looking at 8 years $8.5MM and you sign that every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[RickChartraw]

just watching these games, just really hoping k'andre has a mean streak. not sure it's there though.

 

[Daves a mess]

just watching these games, just really hoping k'andre has a mean streak. not sure it's there though.

Tom Poti 2.0?

 

[bbny]

My view on Kreider's contract (and Trouba's as well) is that they were signed to assist in the rebuild in addition to producing on the ice. Having Kreider and Trouba signed long-term provides a stable leadership core for a young team. Kreider acts like the de facto captain and Trouba has clearly stepped up his leadership this season. Zibanejad is also a team leader, but he may not be in the long-term plans or may price himself out of the long-term plans. So I don't think Kreider was necessarily an impatient move.

Maybe that was the train of thought JD and Gorton had too, but you don't need to spend 15 million a year for leadership. If they really were going the patient route and they made those choices, they were the wrong choices. Might be part of the reason they aren't here anymore.

 

[Trxjw]

Fox is going to do the McD second deal, like 7 x $4.8 or something. Just a hunch.

For reference, McDonagh's 2nd deal was 7.3% of the cap when he signed it. That's around $5.95M per year with today's cap.

Given that Fox is in contention for a Norris in his second pro season, I think it's fair to assume he'll get more than that unless the Rangers give him a bridge like Werenski, McAvoy, or Jones got. I think the Rangers would take $8m x 8yrs all day long at this point. Which is the Chabot deal and very likely what Fox's camp will use as a comparison. 9.8% of the cap.

 

[Fitzy]

If the flames are indeed planning on exposing Giordano in the expansion draft he would probably be very cheap to bring in for his final season

 

[a tribe cq]

just watching these games, just really hoping k'andre has a mean streak. not sure it's there though.

He used his body a bit in College/Juniors tourneys to separate defenders from the puck...I think he was a bit hesitant in the N as to not take himself out of position and he's not the biggest guy anymore. I think it will come along as he gets more comfortable.

 

[Bruner4329]

Maybe that was the train of thought JD and Gorton had too, but you don't need to spend 15 million a year for leadership. If they really were going the patient route and they made those choices, they were the wrong choices. Might be part of the reason they aren't here anymore.

So being patient means you don't sign quality veterans that you feel are important to the growth of this team. Come on. This is getting ridiculous. You can't build a winning team solely based on draft choices or whatever your condoning. What does patience mean to you?

 

[ncmike]

If this was the reason they were signed to these contracts then that was dumb as f***. Leadership is the most overrated quality in players. Young guys grow into leaders, some very quickly. You can already see that with Adam Fox.

Until they do, you can easily supplement them with solid veteran signings. There's absolutely no need to commit long term, high dollars to players simply because you want them to be leaders. These contracts are going to bite us in the ass, especially the Kreider one which may result in us losing Buchnevich who is already a superior player.

I'll also add, the concept of Kreider being a leader is just terrible to me. The guy literally disappears simply due to effort for like a quarter of the season every year.

they signed Kreider because they had too. If not the only left wing they had was Panarin. They know what they had in him but they needed to sign him any way. No covid, the cap goes up and this becomes a non argument.

 

[ncmike]

It’s not often you sign a player for 11+ mil per season and he overperforms based on that.

Not only that but his enthusiasm for the game is contagious. At least it should be.

 

[Bruner4329]

they signed Kreider because they had too. If not the only left wing they had was Panarin. They know what they had in him but they needed to sign him any way. No covid, the cap goes up and this becomes a non argument.

Yes we have too many Monday morning quarterbacks on this board.

 

[Kords]

Bruins skating literal circles around the big mean Caps. Don't wanna jinx anything, but the Pens are (so far) out skating the bigger Isles. I hope Drury is paying attention. Or probably more importantly Dolan if he really is getting impatient.

 

[ncmike]

The problem with "leadership" isn't that it is overrated or not a thing - the problem is that we have no idea what goes on among these players and who is a leader. By nature hockey players and teams are private - compared to other sports. So you're not getting a ton of information beyond what they want you to know.

So people just make shit up and claim a guy's a leader. And it's inferences and arguments are largely just horseshit

disagree. Teams know who their leaders are. Everyone knew Messier was the leader. going back everyone knew Bourque was the captain of the bruins. Expo before him. Clark in Philly. Davey Keon in Toronto. being a leader and captain is something that is inherent inside the person. It’s not something that can be taught but is very important in an environment where people need to be lead. I love Kreider. He has the qualities to be captain . But he disappears too often for too long. If it was one game here or there it would fine. But he doesn’t show up for multiple games in a row far too often

 

[McRanger92]

Ekholm has been a monster in this OT game for Nashville. Hes gotta be a target this offseason, but if i were the Preds id find a way to keep him

 

[bbny]

So being patient means you don't sign quality veterans that you feel are important to the growth of this team. Come on. This is getting ridiculous. You can't build a winning team solely based on draft choices or whatever your condoning. What does patience mean to you?

That's not how I would define being patient at all. There's quality veteran players for far cheaper who arguably bring leadership to a team. Look at the Hurricanes bringing in Justin Williams a few years ago as they were turning the corner from young team to playoff contender. I just don't think the Rangers needed to commit 14.5 million a year for 7 years to get this leadership (which seems to be lacking by the way) or quality veterans. That kind of term and dollars is more like "core of the team" money. Patience would have been to keep the 1st round pick instead of trading for Trouba, and signing a cheap vet RD instead. Patience would have been trading Kreider for a 1st+, and signing a cheap LW vet instead.

 

[RGY]

Bruins skating literal circles around the big mean Caps. Don't wanna jinx anything, but the Pens are (so far) out skating the bigger Isles. I hope Drury is paying attention. Or probably more importantly Dolan if he really is getting impatient.

This is completely incorrect and, my favorite word, disingenuous.

The massive difference between the Pens/Bruins and the Rangers is they have the size and toughness to withstand the physicality. And not only that, they have pushed back and then some with the physicality. There is no “out skating” or “skating circles” by those teams. I would question if you are even watching the games if you think that. There has been quite a bit of pace in both games from both sides with a lot of heavy hitting and nasty scrums. The Rangers would get absolutely walked by all 4 of these teams. Those 4 teams have elevated their games and play and the Rangers would have gotten their asses kicked right out the building.

Foolish to think this team still doesn’t have an issue to address with getting heavier and tougher to play against based on a poor assessment. Absolutely foolish.

You’re right, I hope Drury is watching.

 

[Bruner4329]

That's not how I would define being patient at all. There's quality veteran players for far cheaper who arguably bring leadership to a team. Look at the Hurricanes bringing in Justin Williams a few years ago as they were turning the corner from young team to playoff contender. I just don't think the Rangers needed to commit 14.5 million a year for 7 years to get this leadership (which seems to be lacking by the way) or quality veterans. That kind of term and dollars is more like "core of the team" money. Patience would have been to keep the 1st round pick instead of trading for Trouba, and signing a cheap vet RD instead. Patience would have been trading Kreider for a 1st+, and signing a cheap LW vet instead.

How many first round picks do we need and btw not everyone pans out just look at our past. And it seems you do want to build by the draft basically by just accumulating picks which are unknowns. Sometimes you stick with a proven player. Finally be specific which cheap LW vet would you have signed and what cheap RD? Nice to play Monday morning quarterback without any specifics.

 

[CLW]

This is completely incorrect and, my favorite word, disingenuous.

The massive difference between the Pens/Bruins and the Rangers is they have the size and toughness to withstand the physicality. And not only that, they have pushed back and then some with the physicality. There is no “out skating” or “skating circles” by those teams. I would question if you are even watching the games if you think that. There has been quite a bit of pace in both games from both sides with a lot of heavy hitting and nasty scrums. The Rangers would get absolutely walked by all 4 of these teams. Those 4 teams have elevated their games and play and the Rangers would have gotten their asses kicked right out the building.

Foolish to think this team still doesn’t have an issue to address with getting heavier and tougher to play against based on a poor assessment. Absolutely foolish.

You’re right, I hope Drury is watching.

The difference is that those teams are physically mature. Half the Ranger team is too young, that's the basic issue. That's why it's a no brainer that the Rangers are not ready to compete physically yet for a couple of years (ie in the playoffs). Kakko, Laf, Miller, Kravtsov, Chytil et al need to become men, then we get a better idea of how the team matches up physically.

 

[Kords]

This is completely incorrect and, my favorite word, disingenuous.

The massive difference between the Pens/Bruins and the Rangers is they have the size and toughness to withstand the physicality. And not only that, they have pushed back and then some with the physicality. There is no “out skating” or “skating circles” by those teams. I would question if you are even watching the games if you think that. There has been quite a bit of pace in both games from both sides with a lot of heavy hitting and nasty scrums. The Rangers would get absolutely walked by all 4 of these teams. Those 4 teams have elevated their games and play and the Rangers would have gotten their asses kicked right out the building.

Foolish to think this team still doesn’t have an issue to address with getting heavier and tougher to play against based on a poor assessment. Absolutely foolish.

You’re right, I hope Drury is watching.

They aren't bigger than the Rangers, just older. Hence the phrase I should of emphasized more (in this post, as i've said it elsewhere) P A T I E N C E.

And if you don't think the Bruins skated circles around the Caps tonight, it's YOU who missed the game. By literally every measurable metric, analytic and otherwise. The Caps had NO pace. Zero. They were all nasty scrums, and they got embarrassed for it.

If you think my stance is all speed and no physicality, you are being obtuse to serve a prior narrative and my post triggered some kind of rorschach test response.

 

[bbny]

How many first round picks do we need and btw not everyone pans out just look at our past. And it seems you do want to build by the draft basically by just accumulating picks which are unknowns. Sometimes you stick with a proven player. Finally be specific which cheap LW vet would you have signed and what cheap RD? Nice to play Monday morning quarterback without any specifics.

Anton Stralman instead of Trouba. Patrick Maroon, Matt Martin. Who knows how many other options via trade. Either way, vets with leadership qualities and experience could have been had for much cheaper. The point is JD and Gorton willingly turned the corner from patience to locking in veteran players to be more than veteran players. They locked them in to be major core players for a long time.

 

[Synergy27]

Yes we have too many Monday morning quarterbacks on this board.

You do realize that this is a message board right? What’s the point of a message board if not to “Monday morning quarterback “!

 

[CLW]

Anton Stralman instead of Trouba. Patrick Maroon, Matt Martin. Who knows how many other options via trade. Either way, vets with leadership qualities and experience could have been had for much cheaper. The point is JD and Gorton willingly turned the corner from patience to locking in veteran players to be more than veteran players. They locked them in to be major core players for a long time.

They locked them in because they knew they had a team full of kids for the next few years. They didn't lock them in because they "lost patience". Kreider is a good Ranger and role model pro for the kids so he got rewarded, Trouba bring physicality etc. The logic behind the signings were clear, that they didn't reckon with the flat cap at that time is also obvious.

 

[Cag29]

just watching these games, just really hoping k'andre has a mean streak. not sure it's there though.

Schneider and Robertson may?

 

[RGY]

They aren't bigger than the Rangers, just older. Hence the phrase I should of emphasized more (in this post, as i've said it elsewhere) P A T I E N C E.

And if you don't think the Bruins skated circles around the Caps tonight, it's YOU who missed the game. By literally every measurable metric, analytic and otherwise. The Caps had NO pace. Zero. They were all nasty scrums, and they got embarrassed for it.

If you think my stance is all speed and no physicality, you are being obtuse to serve a prior narrative and my post triggered some kind of rorschach test response.

LMFAO they are heavier and more physical teams than the Rangers. Its not even close. Not even remotely close. And its not because the Rangers are “younger” as the other poster tried to use as an excuse... its because the Rangers dont have the players that play that game, young or old. Even their “bigger” players play soft. Miller and Chytil are two right off the bat that dont use their size. Kakko and Lafreniere I am not worried about. BUT why are we relying on them anyway to bring that heavy, physical, taxing, bruising game?? That’s straight up stupid. All of those teams have quality depth players that bring a physical in your face element that finishes every check. They all have it. The Rangers dont. Stop kidding yourself. And no you cant so easily just develop that internally. Those teams have added players from outside the organization to bring that element to the highest point it needs to be at for the playoffs.

Yeah, you’re point is definitely made that Washington did not skate well for ONE game out of 4. Clap it up, point definitely made... definitely defines all 7 games played so far amongst those 4 teams...

 

[bbny]

They locked them in because they knew they had a team full of kids for the next few years. They didn't lock them in because they "lost patience". Kreider is a good Ranger and role model pro for the kids so he got rewarded, Trouba bring physicality etc. The logic behind the signings were clear, that they didn't reckon with the flat cap at that time is also obvious.

Panarin, Zibanejad, Strome, Buchnevich, Fast, Smith, Staal, Lundqvist. Just some kids who were on the team when they chose to re-sign Kreider. All of whom, except for Panarin, were here when they traded for Trouba. They had some kids, and a young average age, but they weren't devoid of veterans.