Speculation: Roster Building Thread II (2022-23): The Puck is Prepared to be Mounted

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This works via the cap:


Kreider + Carpenter for Debrusk + Foligno + BOS 1st '23 + 3rd '23
Of all the guys with NMCs I want to jettison, moving Kreider helps us the least. I'd honestly rather trade Zib with his 8 year deal & his indifference...that would send a bigger message. Obviously losing Panarin would be the dream, but I'm afraid we're stuck with him til his contract runs out.
 
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Of all the guys with NMCs I want to jettison, moving Kreider helps us the least. I'd honestly rather trade Zib with his 8 year deal & his indifference...that would send a bigger message. Obviously losing Panarin would be the dream, but I'm afraid we're stuck with him til his contract runs out.
No contract is unmovable. Especially if we retain 50%… in fact if we did that teams would line up and we could get a haul
 
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It's amazing how much so many of you seem to know what is going on beyond the scenes, how much you can intuit personal dynamics, team dynamics, relationships between players and coaches, etc.

It is certainly our right as fans to do so, read all we want into what we see on the bench, during games, etc.

But, you know something? None of us know what is going on.

Yes, this team is in deep trouble right now and a losing team is, by definition, an unhappy team. For those of you who have worked in a team during your life, whether in sports, in business, in education, in the military, you know there is always a certain amount of grousing and complaining going on, even if your team is performing and efficient. You cannot tell me that even when this team was winning, that on the long car ride to practice from wherever the players were living, that players who car-pooled did not complain about the coaches or management. For all their physical gift, these guys are humans, no different than each of us.

A team is made up of 22 or 23 different personalities exhibiting the whole range of emotions and responses to situations.

Yes, there is something deeply wrong right now and the team seems downtrodden and beaten. Kudos to Trouba for trying, in his own way, to wake things up.

But, as they say, winning cures everything, hides all warts. This team is certainly due for some positive things to happen: I don't know, off hand, what their shooting percentage is, but it most be abysmal and that, just going by what is average, is bound to rectify itself. How many posts can you hit?

Easiest thing to do is blame the coach: I am not a big GG fan but the fact is that you don't go from genius to dunce in a few months. He might pay the price but I don't think this is the answer. I am certainly heartily tired of his lineup decisions and his in game management. I don't know what the answer is. If the team misses the playoffs, he will be fired and probably deservingly so.

One of the best, and most frustrating parts of being a fan, is playing amateur psychologist. As someone who has been a part of a team and has led teams, group dynamics fascinate me. The Rangers right now are a classic study is a group dynamic going bad.

But to say that any of us know what is going on, except to say the many are underproducing, the team is mentally fragile, and the coaching is questionable (I won't even get into the criticism of the front office), every mistake seems to lead to a goal, is not true. None of us know what is going on. We think we do, we like to imagine ourselves as the proverbial fly on the wall, we all think we have the answer, if only management would hear what we are saying.

It's certainly fun to think we know what is going on, but none of what any of us say, including me, should be considered the gospel truth. Hopefully this dreadful downward spiral will change, there is still a long season to go. I am as upset, angry, and frustrated as anyone here. I can imagine myself "in the room," at practice, on the plane, but I'm not and I don't have a clue as to what is actually being said or is transpiring behind the scenes.
 
Of all the guys with NMCs I want to jettison, moving Kreider helps us the least. I'd honestly rather trade Zib with his 8 year deal & his indifference...that would send a bigger message. Obviously losing Panarin would be the dream, but I'm afraid we're stuck with him til his contract runs out.

I don't disagree. I was trying to live in some reality as I see Kreider having the most value
 
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I brought this up awhile ago when we were losing to sj, anh, minn, ect. This is going to get harder and this is why the Thanksgiving mark was important for this team. Based on their schedule they blew a big part of the year to accumulate easy points. Now they sit 11-10-5 26 games in, 5th in the division and 10th in the conference. Meanwhile, Montreal is two points behind with 2 games in hand...

Rangers, Islanders, Leafs, and caps have all played the most games in the east at this point. This is a bad situation...

It's really not when you think about it.

We are young enough that this is a temporary setback and an opportunity to reinforce our future with what we need.

We just need to give up the delusion that some on this board have that the Panarin/Zibanejad/Kreider/Trouba core is going to win us a Cup. It's not. It never should have been counted on.

I understand why they signed Panarin (too good to pass up), I understand why they traded for Trouba (Fox wasn't Fox yet) and I even understand why they extended Zibanejad (how can you let a 70 point center walk out the door at age 28?).

But those moves needed to accompany other moves then that kept their eye on the future, and they didn't. They doubled down with not trading Kreider when they had the chance to parlay him into a haul, holding onto DeAngelo too long, trading Buch for win-now grit instead of futures, locking into a terrible Goodrow contract, paying a first round pick for a Copp rental, and signing Trocheck to a horrendous unmovable deal.

Something needs to give somewhere. The time is now to cut bait with the overpriced veterans.

Oh, and re: Kreider, I understand that he's actually the best value and the one living up to his contract the most. And yet.... he's still not a needle mover from playoff team to true contender.

That's why he's so valuable for being moved and should be. It's not just punitive. He's 31, he's not going to win a Cup this year with us. How many more years of value does he have? He needs to be moved now, before it's too late. He could still probably fetch us a massive haul including a first and prime prospect.
 
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Oh yea and I've been pointing out how useless the nepotism wheel of coaches is for years. Hockey coaching might be the actual worst out of all tge major sports. If you think a different coach is the elixer and NOT jettisoned these large awful contracts into the sun, well then wtf have u been watching the last two decades?

Special shoutout to lindy ruff doing fantastically elsewhere away from our shit veterans. Oh I'm not saying he's good. I'm saying he'd be as shit as any other coach, he wasn't the problem, Quinn wasnt, the players were...and the front office that saddled us w these seemingly uncoachable albatrosses.

The same front office that actually gave jt miller away as a throw in during a rebuild. (Idgaf we got rid of him, igaf we got nothing for him. The return on mcd should've been MORE than what we got and we threw in jt for free, too). They got rid of buch, one of the ONLY guys showing any life out there. The one prospect who busted his ass for years to develop. With all these other young prospects for him to guide we....got...rid...of him....in his prime....when his contract ask was THAT low....

But we kept...kreider? Zib? I...I just...

Multiple year deals have long reaching consequences for multiple years. When are the people getting paid millions going to learn this?
 
I'm not Nostradamus here but my guess would be that the NYR general manager's office isn't talking about rebuilding around Fox just yet.

Coaching change? I'm sure it's come up by now. Roster shake-up trade? Undoubtedly discussed but tough with the salary cap.

But I think the whole 'look to deal Trouba, Kreider, Panarin' thing is still several orders of magnitude of shit birds away from us. If NYR change coached AND still miss the playoffs then maybe.

I'm ok with this season completely falling apart.
 
They're going to have to get really creative to move Panarin.

Kreider is the easiest to move. As limited as he is his cap hit isn't too stupid and he can fit in well on a contender that doesn't need him to be a factor 5v5 (if you send him to Boston, they're winning the cup.)

Panarin is the guy who 100% needs to go. I'll keep saying it, signing him probably kept the Islanders from winning the cup but it very well may end up keeping the Rangers from doing the same. I wish he stayed in Columbus.
 
Of all the guys with NMCs I want to jettison, moving Kreider helps us the least. I'd honestly rather trade Zib with his 8 year deal & his indifference...that would send a bigger message. Obviously losing Panarin would be the dream, but I'm afraid we're stuck with him til his contract runs out.
Trouba is the guy they will move out. He stuck his head out so it will get lopped off.
 
Moving Mika at 50% would destroy us for years. Almost better to buy it out.
Would suck… but wouldnt destroy us. Its 4.5 mil for 7 years… and u would be getting good assets in return.

But i was talking about panarin. My bad. That would be 5.8 for three years. But he would get a haul too.

Basically you are rebuilding for a year or two after that anyway so cap probably woulsnt be an issue
 
The easiest route is to get Panarin back to his roots. His 2019-2020 season. He showed flashes of it to start this year.

What happened? That player is still there, the coaching staff is doing little if anything to help the situation.

It's funny how fast narratives change, the flip flopping is generational.
 
I don't think this will be a 'burn it to the ground' approach. This problem wasn't created overnight so it won't be resolved overnight. Kreider is the guy who can be fit by a team that would more than likely be willing to trade for him right now. The pieces fit in terms of cap moving in each direction and it would be a major shake-up to the room.
 
I'm ok with this season completely falling apart.
I love that it is. Usually the nyr would do it a season AFTER one of the best draft classes cones around.

Then again, these are the sane people who drafted and then utterly mishandled every top 10 pick we've had so far. Drury couldnt even convince us to get his own family here despite all tge talent he had so we can get...what was it, the olof g bust? To say I feel zero confidence in whatever we might do in this draft anyway? Huge understatement.

I watch maybe 20-30 games a season now. It's such a time waste. It's kind of insulting to see how inept these people being paid millions are
 
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It's tough to project these things because you do need to know who can be talked into waiving and then what you could get.

I don't think this will be a 'burn it to the ground' approach. This problem wasn't created overnight so it won't be resolved overnight. Kreider is the guy who can be fit by a team that would more than likely be willing to trade for him right now. The pieces fit in terms of cap moving in each direction and it would be a major shake-up to the room.

You don't need to burn it to the ground, you just need to move 2-3 of the big non-Fox contracts.
 
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Would suck… but wouldnt destroy us. Its 4.5 mil for 7 years… and u would be getting good assets in return.

But i was talking about panarin. My bad. That would be 5.8 for three years. But he would get a haul too.

Basically you are rebuilding for a year or two after that anyway so cap probably woulsnt be an issue
It woupdnt even be that bad. We've carried around 2-4 m in dead buyout space for what feels like a decade bc this idiot organization can't stop Plaxico burressing itself. Might as well get something back for our trouble.
 
Of all the guys with NMCs I want to jettison, moving Kreider helps us the least. I'd honestly rather trade Zib with his 8 year deal & his indifference...that would send a bigger message. Obviously losing Panarin would be the dream, but I'm afraid we're stuck with him til his contract runs out.

I love Kreider and he doesnt get nearly enough credit for his Ranger career, but I agree trading him would: A. send a message to the team B. Clear cap and lineup space for Lafreniere to play in the top 6 C. actually get something of use, whether it be a player pick or prospect.

Id much rather move Panarin but either way its clear the team needs to solve the LW log jam once and for all. I think theres a possibility they can entice Panarin to waive in the offseason, especially to a team in a state with no income tax, or to Anaheim to reunite with his figure skating partner Strome.
 
Here's a fun one:


To Boston
Kreider + Carpenter

to NYR:
Debrusk + Foligno + BOS 1st '23 + 3rd '23


To EDM:
Debrusk + Gettinger

to NYR:
Puljujaarvi + Janmark + EDM 1st '23 + 3rd '23

Lineup:
Lafreniere-Zibanejad-Kaako
Panarin-Chytil-Puljujaarvi
Foligno-Trochek-Kravtsov
Blais-Goodrow-Gauthier
Janmark, Vesey

Lindgren-Fox
Miller-Schneider
Hajek-Trouba
 
It's really not when you think about it.

We are young enough that this is a temporary setback and an opportunity to reinforce our future with what we need.

We just need to give up the delusion that some on this board have that the Panarin/Zibanejad/Kreider/Trouba core is going to win us a Cup. It's not. It never should have been counted on.

I understand why they signed Panarin (too good to pass up), I understand why they traded for Trouba (Fox wasn't Fox yet) and I even understand why they extended Zibanejad (how can you let a 70 point center walk out the door at age 28?).

But those moves needed to accompany other moves then that kept their eye on the future, and they didn't. They doubled down with not trading Kreider when they had the chance to parlay him into a haul, holding onto DeAngelo too long, trading Buch for win-now grit instead of futures, and signing Trocheck to a horrendous unmovable deal.

Something needs to give somewhere. The time is now to cut bait with the overpriced veterans.

Oh, and re: Kreider, I understand that he's actually the best value and the one living up to his contract the most. And.... he's still not a needle mover from playoff team to true contender.

That's why he's so valuable for being moved and should be. It's not just punitive. He's 31, he's not going to win a Cup this year with us. How many more years of value does he have? He needs to be moved now, before it's too late. He could still probably fetch us a massive haul including a first and prime prospect.
I still think that the back breaking moves were to go in on useless players like Goodrow and Reaves, which forced our hand when it came to players like Buch and Motte. And to make this worse, literally getting nothing for Buch when we did trade him. Then jerking around a talented forward like Kravtsov who clearly regressed from his first stint on the team. And we would have probably been better off on promoting Chytil and banking the cap space from Trocheck. We'd probably still be a very good team if we swapped those players.

What really sucks is that these weren't hindsight is 50/50 type moves. Every one of these was met by fan derision.
 
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