Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20: Part XXVII

[RangersFan1994]

why would we want bracco? georgiev and hajek for kapanen is basically that deal

Playmaking winger is something the Rangers dont need and Bracco is that. Rather go after Adam Brooks from the Leafs the same kid Rangers had in their developmental prospect camp few years ago.

 

[Yankeekid07]

4 goals 34 points in 44 games is nothing to prove lmfao. Rangers don't need another playmaking forward. Rangers need a shooter goal scorer with size and grit goes to the net, especially if and when Kreider is traded. Playmaking forward is the last thing Rangers need. They overpass as it is.

He netted 22 last year and has asked for a trade.

I don’t disagree about needing shooters but I’d be more than happy to have another winger that helps to drive offense

 

[RangersFan1994]

I'm personally not interested in Kapanen. He's fast, and his shot is hard, not accurate but hard, other than that he doesn't have a whole lot more to offer.

They need more speed size with grit that has a shoot first mentality. Player to open up for the skilled forwards

 

[RangersFan1994]

He netted 22 last year and has asked for a trade.

I don’t disagree about needing shooters but I’d be more than happy to have another winger that helps to drive offense

Rather go after someone with size and good along the boards. Rangers got skill. Need to balance that with size. One reason I hope if Kreider goes to the Blues that Kostin comes back. One reason I also want Beecher and or Frederic from the Bruins,

 

[aufheben]

I wouldn’t want to trade Kapanen for Georgiev if I were a Leafs fan. What about Andreas Johnsson? If Bracco is not enough and Kapanen is too much.

 

[n8]

I couldn't find an open Gorton thread, so I'm using this one.

The Athletic polled 22 agents on certain topics. Some Gorton or NYR comments:

“Bob Murray or Jeff Gorton (Rangers). Here’s the thing about Gorton, he only goes back when it’s on his terms. But Murray is the worst. He hates agents in general.”

“Jeff Gorton. I like Jeff but it’s more of his style. He’s always just kicking tires and never stepping up to the plate.”

“I have guys who put New York right away because it’s just too big.” Ha. The Islanders don't even register in the NY category.

I think for this information to carry the proper context, a similar survey would have to be taken to poll agents' favorite GMs to work with and teams agents get requests to talk to during free agency. These stats paint a very one-sided and abridged story.

 

[RangersFan1994]

I wouldn’t want to trade Kapanen for Georgiev if I were a Leafs fan. What about Andreas Johnsson? If Bracco is not enough and Kapanen is too much.

Andreas Johnsson and Dmytro Timashov for Georgiev and Fast??

Dmytro Timashov Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Fair for both teams??

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I'm personally not interested in Kapanen. He's fast, and his shot is hard, not accurate but hard, other than that he doesn't have a whole lot more to offer.

Totally disagree. Kapanen adds speed to our right side and can play In every situation. To me, Kapanen helps make Buch/Strome/Fast expendable too.

I think Kapanen is more intriguing than you think. He’s squirrelly and has a good amount of offensive ability. And he’s young and signed until 2022 at a very reasonable cost.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

They need more speed size with grit that has a shoot first mentality. Player to open up for the skilled forwards

Speed. Size. Grit. Likes to shoot (and is hopefully good at shooting).

Good luck finding a player of that style/build for a reasonable cost. Literally, every team in the league would love to add that kind of player to their roster.

 

[Tob]

I just find the whole forward for a goalie thing to be bad business for Toronto. there's a reason goalies are seldom traded for good skaters. With Toronto needing D men and okay in net with Andersen, trading a solid forward like Kapanen will be one step forward two steps back. One back on forwards and another one back on a lost opportunity for a defenseman. George will go for a lesser player + a pick if he's moved.

 

[egelband]

Dubas is like a card collector who won't sell his Gretzky rookie cards to fix the roof in his leaking house.

Except it’s not a Gretzky rookie he’s holding onto.

 

[egelband]

Georgiev and Hajek for Kapenen and Bracco

?? Seems fair to me

Rather have a pick than Bracco. I’m no expert but he doesn’t sound like what the Rangers need, at all. Not even sure Kapanen is either but I also don’t mind moving Hajek and the Leafs could use a defenseman. Makes sense.

 

[BBKers]

Kapanen + ? For Georgiev and Fast. What is the +? A second round pick Maybe ?

 

[Ola]

I'd rather have a 6th than a 7th. Just saying. The earlier a pick is the better.

Yeah it is. This is Schukers value chart that I was talking about:

I think however that teams often has a list of "standard" prospects that they go through the first 4-5 rounds sometimes, and sometimes all the draft. But then there is a breaking point when you kind of leave the "standard" kids, like who is deemed to have potential to become NHL player if they can follow a path, because you just think the overall quality they have is too low, and move on to a different type of players who have strong abilities as well as attributes that are black holes and don't make them attractive targets. Like these guys ability to make it is based on the scout watching them being "wrong". But history shows that kids can overcome problems, and sometimes these late picks become really good players.

I think Panarin is an example of that. He was good at 19, but was so weak/flawed in how he moved that teams passed on him. If someone had 10 seventh rounders, I wouldn't at all be surprised if that team would have gone, the heck of it lets gamble on that kid.

 

[Ola]

People disparage the 7th round but no one has ever had a monopoly on it before. The possibilities would be endless.

Have anyone tried, or at least considered, to Phillybuster the draft? Like Gorton gets all 7th rounders and then just camp at the draft site for the entirety of 2020 so that next years class becomes available and can be drafted? Like I am sure there are rules for how long time a GM has available to make a pick. But if the NHL rules that a team took too long time, the team can appeal that decision and get a stay order on the draft floor, really dragging out the process.

 

[n8]

Yeah it is. This is Schukers value chart that I was talking about:
View attachment 316731

I think however that teams often has a list of "standard" prospects that they go through the first 4-5 rounds sometimes, and sometimes all the draft. But then there is a breaking point when you kind of leave the "standard" kids, like who is deemed to have potential to become NHL player if they can follow a path, because you just think the overall quality they have is too low, and move on to a different type of players who have strong abilities as well as attributes that are black holes and don't make them attractive targets. Like these guys ability to make it is based on the scout watching them being "wrong". But history shows that kids can overcome problems, and sometimes these late picks become really good players.

I think Panarin is an example of that. He was good at 19, but was so weak/flawed in how he moved that teams passed on him. If someone had 10 seventh rounders, I wouldn't at all be surprised if that team would have gone, the heck of it lets gamble on that kid.

This chart is telling me a lot of teams have overpaid sending two 2nds for a late 1st or a 1st and a 2nd to move up 4 spots or even two 3rds for a 2nd. Oh well!

 

[RangerBoy]

Alexandar Georgiev, N.Y. Rangers
Scoop: The Leafs have already been linked to Georgiev, part of the Rangers’ three-headed monster in goal. We reported on Friday that the Rangers are comfortable finishing out the year with three netminders, even if it’s less than ideal for all parties involved from a workload perspective. Igor Shesterkin is the heir to King Henrik Lundqvist’s throne. But Georgiev, who turns 24 next week, has done enough to give New York pause about a tandem of the future – and to have teams calling about his availability. His save percentage (.913) is a bit better than (albeit younger) the highly touted Carter Hart’s mark through virtually the same number of NHL games.

There are only 31 games remaining. 10 more games before the trading deadline. How many more games will Lundqvist start the rest of this season? He wasn't very good against Dallas. He was sitting on the Rangers bench after getting pulled after the second period with this distant look in his eyes. His mind was somewhere else. Henrik is good against the teams wearing red like Carolina and Detroit. The Rangers are playing Carolina again in 2 weeks. The Canes should wear their green Hartford Whalers sweaters to throw Lundqvist off assuming he starts that game on the 21st.

 

[eco's bones]

Yeah it is. This is Schukers value chart that I was talking about:
View attachment 316731

I think however that teams often has a list of "standard" prospects that they go through the first 4-5 rounds sometimes, and sometimes all the draft. But then there is a breaking point when you kind of leave the "standard" kids, like who is deemed to have potential to become NHL player if they can follow a path, because you just think the overall quality they have is too low, and move on to a different type of players who have strong abilities as well as attributes that are black holes and don't make them attractive targets. Like these guys ability to make it is based on the scout watching them being "wrong". But history shows that kids can overcome problems, and sometimes these late picks become really good players.

I think Panarin is an example of that. He was good at 19, but was so weak/flawed in how he moved that teams passed on him. If someone had 10 seventh rounders, I wouldn't at all be surprised if that team would have gone, the heck of it lets gamble on that kid.

My comment really has more to do about making a 'thing' out of a thing. I really look at both 6th and 7th rounders as long shots and if one of them works out to be a player that's fine but I don't expect it and usually when they do they don't turn into key players. The two goalies Huska (7th), Wall (6th) have turned into very good prospects but neither is a slam dunk to be an NHL player. Kjellberg's had a pretty good start at RPI--I'm not really expecting him to make it--we'll see. Ciccolini also pretty decent but still a reach. Hughes not doing much--it's tough to making that leap even from a college feeder league to college and again it's tough making that leap from the CHL, Europe or College to the AHL. And some of the guys who put up numbers are going to disappoint most of all--Ronning--great in the WHL--struggling as a pro--Day struggling too--Lindqvist, Meskanen, Kovacs, Stromwall all good Euro players---all bought out. Lettieri great in the AHL--struggles once he's in the NHL--Nieves not a great producer usually in the AHL but able to play a role when he's up with the Rangers.

But yes a lot of late rounders are guesses--throwing shit against a wall to see what sticks.

 

[Vitto79]

So Bracco scratched for AHL Marlies

Says personal reasons but he may if asked for a trade

 

[Vitto79]

Kapanen + ? For Georgiev and Fast. What is the +? A second round pick Maybe ?

Was thinking Braaco ..it’s fair to me Kapanen is the best player in the deal

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Quiet before the storm.... or a quiet deadline?
Usually a trade or 2 happens around this time before the deadline.

The only issue would be that we would exceed the reserve list limit

 

[egelband]

So Bracco scratched for AHL Marlies

Says personal reasons but he may if asked for a trade

 

[eco's bones]

I just find the whole forward for a goalie thing to be bad business for Toronto. there's a reason goalies are seldom traded for good skaters. With Toronto needing D men and okay in net with Andersen, trading a solid forward like Kapanen will be one step forward two steps back. One back on forwards and another one back on a lost opportunity for a defenseman. George will go for a lesser player + a pick if he's moved.

Toronto is not really okay in net with Andersen. He's a good goalie but he can't handle the workload of getting his team to the playoffs and very much farther. He'll be 31 next year and on the last year of his contract and if he's the No. 1 he's going to want term and $'s to sign again. With their cap issues they can't really afford all that much. After him they don't have anyone who is ready. Very arguably their second best goalie in the organization is Ian Scott who is still playing in the the CHL. So to me Toronto is not really in a good place goaltending wise. They have to fix their defense too.

IMO if the Maple Leafs are looking at Georgiev---they're really looking at him to be their No. 1. He and Andersen might share the job for another season or until Andersen's contract expires then they'll be able to move on from Andersen if they feel they need to. After that it will be Georgiev's job if he hasn't already won it anyway.

To me that's the analysis the Rangers should be working off of anyway. Bad business for Toronto? They obviously feel they need a quality goalie and just because they have a need doesn't mean we have to fill it. If we do fill that need with Alex then we should get something very good back for him. Alex has been in the NHL for three years and he's still very young. He'll also be a relatively cheap contract for a while. Don't think Toronto is not aware of that. They are cap strapped and having control over a young guy for the next few years while they work out that issue would be a big positive for them. Alex checks a lot of boxes for them and we're under no obligation to sell him for junk.

 

[egelband]

Toronto is not really okay in net with Andersen. He's a good goalie but he can't handle the workload of getting his team to the playoffs and very much farther. He'll be 31 next year and on the last year of his contract and if he's the No. 1 he's going to want term and $'s to sign again. With their cap issues they can't really afford all that much. After him they don't have anyone who is ready. Very arguably their second best goalie in the organization is Ian Scott who is still playing in the the CHL. So to me Toronto is not really in a good place goaltending wise. They have to fix their defense too.

IMO if the Maple Leafs are looking at Georgiev---they're really looking at him to be their No. 1. He and Andersen might share the job for another season or until Andersen's contract expires then they'll be able to move on from Andersen if they feel they need to. After that it will be Georgiev's job if he hasn't already won it anyway.

To me that's the analysis the Rangers should be working off of anyway. Bad business for Toronto? They obviously feel they need a quality goalie and just because they have a need doesn't mean we have to fill it. If we do fill that need with Alex then we should get something very good back for him. Alex has been in the NHL for three years and he's still very young. He'll also be a relatively cheap contract for a while. Don't think Toronto is not aware of that. They are cap strapped and having control over a young guy for the next few years while they work out that issue would be a big positive for them. Alex checks a lot of boxes for them and we're under no obligation to sell him for junk.

Yep. The Rangers are - as far as I can gather- pitching Georgiev as a cost-controlled-above-average-young-starter. Which is smart. And why I cringe when fans of other teams think he’s getting moved for a third or whatever garbage they don’t want because “he’s a backup”. Nope.
If he is traded it’s on the basis of his potential. Which is legit. If not by the deadline, then they’ll find a taker over the summer.

If I’m guessing, I would bet on it happening in the summer and not with the Leafs. The Leafs will end up shopping in the bargain aisle as usual, scotch tape their goalie situation together, and hope for a lucky break when they realize they can’t afford Andersen’s next deal.

 

[haohmaru]

I'm officially sick of this three goalie thing. It's ridiculous for all players involved. Do something.