Speculation: Roster Building/Rumor Thread XVIII

[pld459666]

Not sure if discussed earlier, Scott Wheeler had Rangers ranked 16th (in his "overtime losers," category for Day 1, and then ranked 29th (in his "losers," category) for Day 2.

Not good. I know everyone will be quick to dismiss post draft analysis but we all lapped it up when they had us ranked high and that turned out to be true. No guarantee that things work out bad from this draft but it's not a good sign.

Who is Scott Wheeler?

 

[mas0764]

If we trade Strome and don't make any other trades/signings, we just became a significantly worse team.

Taking a step back from the ledge I'm almost ok with that.

Who cares if we miss the playoffs? Sign me up for another shot at a top center in this coming mega draft.

THEN the rebuild is complete.

 

[mas0764]

Who is Scott Wheeler?

Draft coverage guy at the Athletic.

 

[haveandare]

Ehh I’m not too concerned about it. If he was scoring while playing as well as he did he’d be asking for 8 mil not 5.5. Plus I think being surrounded with the talent we have his numbers will tick up. Montreal just didn’t have a lot of fire power at all surrounding him. That’s not going to be the case here.

Not concerned about the la k of offense in the Post Season.

Nice to have, but when he goes dark, he still incredibly effective player and not Claude Rains.

Danault would be an amazing fit here but the term may be too long. He would put up 50 with Panarin, play shut down D, and actually win some faceoffs.

This is all possible but im wary of committing to him long term because of the risk this doesn’t happen. He didn’t just have a little trouble scoring in the playoffs. He led them in toi and was last in points. That’s not a good performance for someone you want to pay a scorers contract to

 

[jay from jersey]

Why? Why is the size thing valid? No one seems able to explain that. And even if it is, why is Lindgren, Miller, Robertson, and Trouba not enough size? Why does it have to be Schneider over Nils on the basis of size only as well? And why can't Schneider move to the left side? Or why can't Trouba be traded or bought out?

This is my point, no one has any answers to these things other than "That's how it is, Nils is just gonna be the odd man out." WHY??

It’s not size alone. But it’s a factor. Much like style of play, speed ,vision, skill, shot. They are all factors. Size and knowing how to use it gives a player a tremendous advantage. Nils isn’t the odd man out. But Fox is on the same side with a similar skill set and style of play eating more of the minutes

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

That's a steal compared to Goodrow. Guy was lighting it up and a proven Playoff Performer

I REALLY wanted him.

They're able to Tampa Tax their way with these contracts though. They reside in the same state.

I have a bigger issue with this than I do with the LTIR shit.

 

[duhmetreE]

Strome + 3rd/4th
for
McNabb, Roy + 1st *maybe add Reaves for cap reasons

 

[mas0764]

Getting size at D has become a trend. I talked about it 3-4 years ago at least when there were a lot of focus on smaller Ds. One of the reasons for that is that it had been very valuable in the SHL to have size at D, and I had a hard time not seeing it translating to the NHL.

MTL had a lot of success with their Big 4. Tampa obviously has only targeted bigger D for a long time. But I actually think the need for size in the blue line will become more nuanced with time. I’ve seen talk about how you maybe can afford 1 or 2 non-big Ds. I could actually see the split being more 3:3 — if used correctly. And that includes a bigger defensive D pairing. There are many shifts in a game that is about closing things down. Attack may be the best defense, but if a team is up a goal with a minute left, you don’t often see that team spending 60 second in the attacking zone. You got the PK minutes against the top PP units. You got FOs in your own end.

My point is just that you can get a ton of size at D — for the right shifts — even if you just have one bigger D pair. And if you have a mixed pairing, it can take the rest.

I agree, you need size, but you don't need ONLY size. I think you can do an even split, you just have to have the pair that can absorb those "size" minutes requirements. You also need skill and puck moving ability from your back end. With Fox and Nils we would be a cut ahead of EVERYONE ELSE there. Find size at your other four D spots.

 

[pld459666]

Draft coverage guy at the Athletic.

Never heard of him.

 

[SA16]

The Bennett contract can easily be a bad contract. They just gave 4.4M over 4 years to a guy who had 15 good games. This deal is certainly no bargain as of now. He was outscored by Sammy Blais in 19-20 and 20-21 (CGY only but it's similar games total).

 

[mas0764]

Never heard of him.

That's too bad, you should subscribe to the Athletic.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

My thoughts on the draft are the Rangers ended up right in the middle. They didn’t have a great draft, they also aren’t Ottawa

would I have picked some of the names they did? No

but it is what it is

I will say that I think it’s fair to question the teams philosophy on this draft though. COVID mixed with the unknown nature of this draft presented an opportunity for teams whose scouting departments are well funded (i.e the Rangers) to really swing for the fences on high upside guys who other teams might not have scouted as heavily.

And it seems like they didn’t do that at all

 

[pld459666]

That's too bad, you should subscribe to the Athletic.

Pass

 

[duhmetreE]

They're able to Tampa Tax their way with these contracts though. They reside in the same state.

I have a bigger issue with this than I do with the LTIR shit.

you could skirt it with signing bonuses.. It's how Panarin and Matthews did it... but yes, there's an inherent disadvantage.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

You can't explain it any more than that because there is nothing to explain other than people have noticed that some of the recent Cup winners have bigger defensemen. Ergo it's a talking point that people are presuming is true without much in the way of actual facts. Trend, yes, but if someone is arguing that we need Schneider more than Nils because "Schneider plays hockey that wins in the playoffs," I'm going to need that quantified more than "He's 6'2 and tougher."

I'm not trying to nit pick against you - I'm saying the argument as a whole that is permeating this board is simply unfounded. It's not your fault you can't explain it, there's nothing to explain because it's simply anecdotal, and that's the point.

We will have a better chance to win a Cup running out there with Fox, Nils, Lindgren, Miller, and then two out of the three of Trouba, Robertson, and Schneider ...... as opposed to leaving out Nils and having all three of Trouba, Robertson and Schneider. Yes you need size in the playoffs to an extent and we will have it one way or the other. You also need pick moving and offensive ability. Nils' skillset as a "Fox lite," isn't something that should be downplayed as a negative, it's a huge boost to our chances. The slight loss of size in subbing in Nils (6') for say, Schneider (6'2) is marginal when compared to his offensive skillset. We will still have FOUR other defensemen who are either huge or play with lots of physicality. I also think some are believing Nils is a pushover because he's a Euro.... I don't think he's particularly soft.

My argument isn't unfounded, the teams that usually win the cup have physical dmen as a basis for their d thats a fact, its staring everyone in the face when they hoist the cup, whether they are smaller gritty guys like Lindgren or 6'7 like Hedman. You are trying to dimiss the fact that while there are teams that have done it without it the teams that are most always successful in playoffs have that element.
Also, you're pretending Schneider is a bad dman, like there is a serious drop off from Lundkvist to him, they play different styles, Schneider is really really good and much more than just 6'3 and tough as a player.

 

[mas0764]

If they don't become the players we expect them to be, this rebuild is f***ed anyway.

Part of the reason why we shouldn't accelerate the rebuild until we know they are the prime carriers of contention.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

you could skirt it with signing bonuses.. It's how Panarin and Matthews did it... but yes, there's an inherent disadvantage.

I don't think either of those guys came in under market value.

 

[jay from jersey]

I agree, you need size, but you don't need ONLY size. I think you can do an even split, you just have to have the pair that can absorb those "size" minutes requirements. You also need skill and puck moving ability from your back end. With Fox and Nils we would be a cut ahead of EVERYONE ELSE there. Find size at your other four D spots.

Thats going to be the problem, what to do with him on the right waiting for Trouba NMC for 3 seasons. It’s a valid point of discussion. No one is picking on Nils

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

I still hate Goodrow's contract even if he did play center on this team. I think you need all of your top 9 centers to be capable offensively in some capacity, and he hardly is.

 

[Kovalev27]

Part of the reason why we shouldn't accelerate the rebuild until we know they are the prime carriers of contention.

The rebuild is over my friend

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Bob mackenzie must have handed Seravalli all his contacts.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Taking a step back from the ledge I'm almost ok with that.

Who cares if we miss the playoffs? Sign me up for another shot at a top center in this coming mega draft.

THEN the rebuild is complete.

This team needs to make the playoffs this year, it should have been last season but things got in the way.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

My thoughts on the draft are the Rangers ended up right in the middle. They didn’t have a great draft, they also aren’t Ottawa

would I have picked some of the names they did? No

but it is what it is

I will say that I think it’s fair to question the teams philosophy on this draft though. COVID mixed with the unknown nature of this draft presented an opportunity for teams whose scouting departments are well funded (i.e the Rangers) to really swing for the fences on high upside guys who other teams might not have scouted as heavily.

And it seems like they didn’t do that at all

My counter would be, why would that only be an advantage for high upside prospects? Could be that they saw signs of offensive skill from "lower upside types" that didn't show up as noticeably on the stat sheet for whatever reason due to usage, team etc. I think dinging teams for going off the board carries even less weight than usual this year.

 

[duhmetreE]

I don't think either of those guys came in under market value.

but is Bennett under market value or is Goodrow extremely overpaid? I think Bennett is fair. Goodrows contract is absurd.

I think Panarin was fair for being a UFA..

 

[Kovalev27]

I still hate Goodrow's contract even if he did play center on this team. I think you need all of your top 9 centers to be capable offensively in some capacity, and he hardly is.

he had 20 pts in 50 games last year. For a third line player that equates to a 32 pt pace. That’s hardly a black hole of a player that gets no pp time