Speculation: Roster Building/Rumor Thread XVIII

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

that's a reasonable AAV. what term? He had a career year

3 I think

 

[mas0764]

Nobody said they do, big or physical mobile dmen win the day. Its a fact, there's outliers in everything but the teams that generally make it to the finals have big or physical dmen and there's a reason for that. This has nothing to do with JD, Nyr or me, Tampa built their d to be tough to play against, st.Louis built their d to be tough to play against. I'm done debating this because all you have to do is look at the cup winners and you'll see a trend. I can't explain it any more than that.

You can't explain it any more than that because there is nothing to explain other than people have noticed that some of the recent Cup winners have bigger defensemen. Ergo it's a talking point that people are presuming is true without much in the way of actual facts. Trend, yes, but if someone is arguing that we need Schneider more than Nils because "Schneider plays hockey that wins in the playoffs," I'm going to need that quantified more than "He's 6'2 and tougher."

I'm not trying to nit pick against you - I'm saying the argument as a whole that is permeating this board is simply unfounded. It's not your fault you can't explain it, there's nothing to explain because it's simply anecdotal, and that's the point.

We will have a better chance to win a Cup running out there with Fox, Nils, Lindgren, Miller, and then two out of the three of Trouba, Robertson, and Schneider ...... as opposed to leaving out Nils and having all three of Trouba, Robertson and Schneider. Yes you need size in the playoffs to an extent and we will have it one way or the other. You also need pick moving and offensive ability. Nils' skillset as a "Fox lite," isn't something that should be downplayed as a negative, it's a huge boost to our chances. The slight loss of size in subbing in Nils (6') for say, Schneider (6'2) is marginal when compared to his offensive skillset. We will still have FOUR other defensemen who are either huge or play with lots of physicality. I also think some are believing Nils is a pushover because he's a Euro.... I don't think he's particularly soft.

 

[Blueshirts777]

If we didn’t have the long term cap space to accommodate a Buch re-sign, I don’t see where the space will come from to give Danault, by most consideration a 3C on competitive teams, the term and $ his camp has signaled.

Getting a second 3C shouldn’t cost us the chance of re-signing our 1C. If it does, our depth and cap flexibility will be a shambles for seasons to come.

They didn't want to commit that to a winger on a team full of wingers. If they use the budget to accommodate Danault or another center and resign Zib then it makes sense but as others stated, this is basically the team you go all in with then.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

that's a reasonable AAV. what term? He had a career year

 

[mas0764]

Draft day analysis is always a crap shoot honestly. In 2009 the Rangers got ripped for taking a Massachussetts high school player who was a reach at 19 overall while "better" players were still available. The player the Rangers got ripped for taking was Chris Kreider and the "better" players still available were the likes of Jordan Schroeder, Jacob Josefson, John Moore, Tim Erixon and Simon Depres.

I think it's safe to say the Rangers made the right pick there.

Is draft analysis a crap shoot, or is it just not surefire? I think it TENDS to be right more than it's wrong. Of course there are examples where the pundits got it completely wrong.

Setting aside the analysts I don't think it's safe to say the Rangers made the right pick... very early for that. We will see.

 

[duhmetreE]

Not bad for your 1/2 of your top pair. We'll see how he holds up.

Vegas is 'All-in'.

 

[Kovalev27]

If they don't become the players we expect them to be, this rebuild is f***ed anyway.

Exactly

 

[bleedblue94]

they’re virtually equal offensively 5on5 but one guy actually plays defense and the other doesn’t give two shits let you guess which one is which

i would love to see something similar regarding his number with and without gallagher. there has been a contingent of habs fans that for quite a while have suggested that his play/numbers dip tremendously when gallagher isnt on his wing. i havent watched him enough to know if there is any validity to those claims.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

I think Vegas needs to cut cap now.

 

[EpicDing]

I think Vegas needs to cut cap now.

Puts them like 900k over the cap yeah

 

[mas0764]

100%.

2017 Penguins and Nashville teams are examples of teams that made it to the finals or won without having a huge D corp. Highly skilled sure. Huge? Not at all.
Same with 2018 Cup winner Washington Capitols. Bunch of guys at 5'11, 6'.

The Bruins current defense pool isn't exactly enormous.


Golden Knights now do have a pretty big defense corp. So they are an example of the opposite. Probably Florida, Islanders, Canes and TB also.

St. Louis cup team had a fairly sizable D.

If you want to play like Vegas or Islanders, you probably do need a bit larger defense corp. But that's not the only way to win.

And even if you have "tall" defensman, that doesn't mean they are especially physical or tough. Klingberg is 6'3 and I wouldn't exactly call him a power house.

A lot of these teams have quite a few defenders at just 6ft. Which really isn't drastically different than 5'11. And I wonder if all these heights and weights are very accurate. In basketball I feel like some guys get 2 inches added to their height that they don't actually have in reality.

There's more than one way to skin a cat and win a Stanley Cup. And when you have a bunch of very high skill players and high skill defensemen, you don't necessarily need a huge D corp. You do need guys who play physical and tough though, and that's different from size.

I would be pretty optimistic if the Rangers had 4 LD versions of Lindgren and 4 RD versions of Fox. I think that team would still go pretty far. And Lindgren only 6', and Fox 5'11.

Realistically, our defense wouldn't even be "small". It would be balanced. If we play LD's Lindgren, Miller, Jones with RD's Fox, Lundqvist, Trouba. That still gives you 2 sizable defenders in Miller and Trouba. But Miller needs to play tougher IMO to really warrant a roster spot. And I think Trouba needs to change his game a bit, become more defensively oriented and tougher, let other guys focus on offense. And then you have Lindgren, who, even though is just 6' is still tough as nails and does things guys at 6'3 do. And then you have 3 very offensively talented Ds, in Fox, Jones and Lundqvist. While they might lack size, none of them are poor defenders. Well, theoretically. I guess we will still have to find that out about Lundqvist and Jones. But if analysis is any accurate, they are both more than capable defensively. That seems like a pretty balanced starting D corp to me, with the caveat that these players play up to their assumed potential.

Then you have a guy like Hajek who is 6'2 for depth. And maybe in the future Scheider and Robertson who are also fairly sizable and both are actually tough and gritty capable. And if we don't see either Robertson or Schneider this season, I assume we will add at least one more depth d-man who will probably be defensively oriented and on the tougher side.

It's not like we have a bunch of Tony DeAngelos or Tyson Barrie's or Quinn Hughes'. Who I would say all lack a bit of toughness and defensive ability. Our highly skilled defenders are also, at least supposedly, very capable and responsible defenders. All potentially above average defensively.

So I seriously don't see any problem with the makeup or physicality, or let's say the potential makeup and physicality of the current Rangers D corp. Seems it will be quite balanced to me.

Exactly. Nils and Fox are not DeAngelo and Tyson Barrie, that may be the most important part. They are both excellent defenders (well, Nils is an excellent prospects as a defender).

I'm not flipping out that Nils is 5'11 or 6' any more than I'm worried that Fox is.

I am certainly not simply handing Schneider the presumed job because he's 6'2 and "tougher." Nils is better, flat out.

Schneider can move to the left side maybe. Or here's a thought, maybe we need to back away from the supposedly concrete notion that we are never allowed to move on from $8m per year Trouba. No, I think once he's the third pair RD behind Fox and EITHER Nils or Schneider, and when we have established size at LD in Lindgren, Miller and Robertson, he's very movable.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Nick Holden szn?

 

[RangersFan1994]

Nick Holden szn?

no thanks

rather go after someone who is more useful.

 

[mas0764]

- Per Friedman; Big week for potential Jack Eichel trade, free agency predictions

Eichel's reps were very candid when asked directly by a reputable source. Eichel is not staying. Eichel also still wants (possibly needs) surgery.

No reports at all of any team ever seeing Eichel's medicals yet. No deals ever reported close. Imagine the Rangers offered what was being asked for, then saw the medicals and backed out? Wouldn't take a team of geniuses for the rest of the front offices to get the hint. Buffalo played this whole Eichel situation terribly.

Tell me why Eichel shouldn't just go find a surgeon and have the surgery.

What's Buffalo going to do to him? Void his contract? Good.

 

[JimmyG89]

Puts them like 900k over the cap yeah

Vegas can bury Holden and get Martinez at 5M and be just under, but needing to sign Patrick still.

They'll be making some kind of a move, unless someone needs to be LTIR'd at the beginning of the season.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

They have to trade Fluery which should help, even if they have to retain some.

 

[eco's bones]

It did grow, and due to that he should have played more.

He had basically the same ATOI as he did in his rookie season.

Kakko did miss some games because of covid protocols. The Rangers settled more on one power play group this year it seemed. I don’t have the numbers but Kakko seemed to be more regular on the power play in his rookie year. He certainly had more power play production in his first year.

Forwards who tend to average 17/18 minutes a night get the extra from regular power play time. Forwards who tend towards 20 minutes or so get both power play and penalty kill time…..there may be a few exceptions but they are among the truly elite.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

 

[Deleted member 23124]

I love how they say the rangers and Buffalo aren’t close but then in the same breath if we replace our offer by one different player it appears it’s a done deal . To me that sounds as close as you can get lol

I don't understand how they can be close when (according all reports), the Rangers haven't even seen Eichel's medical records.

 

[mas0764]

I would sign a stop gap 3D in free agency and call it a day. I see absolutely no reason to trade Strome for one.

Strome is a 28 year old coming off like, 60-70 point paces. He is a long term piece for someone, just not us.

Why would I parlay that into a one year rental defender?

Robertson, Nils and Schneider will all be ready soon. I need a guy for like a year, and I actively DO NOT want a highly paid defender for longer than that because they'll be blocking my cheap youth.

So tell me again why I might trade a longer term asset in Strome for a rental?

Get a pick back, or something with some long term value to your own organization, and just sign a vet to a one or two year deal. Why is this complicated?

 

[duhmetreE]

That's a steal compared to Goodrow. Guy was lighting it up and a proven Playoff Performer

I REALLY wanted him.

 

[jay from jersey]

Exactly. Nils and Fox are not DeAngelo and Tyson Barrie, that may be the most important part. They are both excellent defenders (well, Nils is an excellent prospects as a defender).

I'm not flipping out that Nils is 5'11 or 6' any more than I'm worried that Fox is.

I am certainly not simply handing Schneider the presumed job because he's 6'2 and "tougher." Nils is better, flat out.

Schneider can move to the left side maybe. Or here's a thought, maybe we need to back away from the supposedly concrete notion that we are never allowed to move on from $8m per year Trouba. No, I think once he's the third pair RD behind Fox and EITHER Nils or Schneider, and when we have established size at LD in Lindgren, Miller and Robertson, he's very movable.

Nobody is saying Nils isn’t a great prospect. But the size thing is valid if they know how to use it well and are mobile and have good enough vision/ hockey smarts.
If it was just straight size Gettinger would be dominating our 4th line right now.
They main argument for nils is the usage. That’s why I only see it making sense if he moves to the left side.
The size discussion got more amped up when everyone saw a good all around Defenseman like Girard get exposed in the playoffs by bigger more physical players. Don’t forget Nils is coming from a bigger rink with more space and the game is faster and more physical here. He has immense talent, but the only way to see how it translates is when he plays here.

 

[mas0764]

Nobody is saying Nils isn’t a great prospect. But the size thing is valid if they know how to use it well and are mobile and have good enough vision/ hockey smarts.
If it was just straight size Gettinger would be dominating our 4th line right now.
They main argument for nils is the usage. That’s why I only see it making sense if he moves to the left side

Why? Why is the size thing valid? No one seems able to explain that. And even if it is, why is Lindgren, Miller, Robertson, and Trouba not enough size? Why does it have to be Schneider over Nils on the basis of size only as well? And why can't Schneider move to the left side? Or why can't Trouba be traded or bought out?

This is my point, no one has any answers to these things other than "That's how it is, Nils is just gonna be the odd man out." WHY??

 

[Rongomania]

Week starting off depressing in Ranger land again I see.

f*ck me dude.