Speculation: Roster Building Frenzy Part XX

[egelband]

I think its more due to how the collective bargaining agreement is structured in the NHL.

It's different then in the other professional sports leagues. NHL has always had a lower overall base then the other sports as well, so that means lower TV deals and advertising deals.

I get it. I know it’s a smaller base but salaries are also commensurately lower. And they charge just just as much for a beer as the nba.

 

[Tawnos]

Fair enough. I’m not a bean counter. But I still don’t understand how the league can fall apart on account of one year of no gate. Other leagues seem to have navigated it much better.

I don't know how other leagues have handled it, but I definitely do not agree with the interpretation that the league "fell apart" here. Really, I think it's the opposite. They weathered the pandemic, to this point, with a plan in place for how to handle the effects of it. There's no falling apart... the modest cap increases and escrow pay back was the plan from when they signed the new CBA. There's no poverty here. I really don't know where you got that from.

 

[Tawnos]

Cap would have gone up to $85-86MM in 20-21 if not for the pandemic. Once debt to owners is paid off, it will skyrocket. That’s why so many young guys are content with three year contracts.

And it's also why the GMs and the league are perfectly fine with the $1m cap increases that are going to come each year. Better to ease into it than have it happen all at once.

 

[egelband]

I don't know how other leagues have handled it, but I definitely do not agree with the interpretation that the league "fell apart" here. Really, I think it's the opposite. They weathered the pandemic, to this point, with a plan in place for how to handle the effects of it. There's no falling apart... the modest cap increases and escrow pay back was the plan from when they signed the new CBA. There's no poverty here. I really don't know where you got that from.

My thinking is that, simply, other industries are able to provide raises still. Including the other major sports. What is it that keeps the NHL in neutral.

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

I guess my shock is that they have been running so tight for so long. It’s a great game with lots of great fans and great cities yet somehow…here we are.

The NHL is the most gate revenue driven league of the major 4 sports in the US, so its not surprising.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The best thing that happened to this franchise is the salary cap, we'd still be trying to buy every old vet in the league with a name bar. It forced us to be smarter and value youth.

 

[Tawnos]

My thinking is that, simply, other industries are able to provide raises still. Including the other major sports. What is it that keeps the NHL in neutral.

First of all, the NHL is providing raises. The cap is probably going up by $1m and will go up by $1m per year every year until the debt is paid off, at which point the cap will again be based entirely on the 50-50 split.

Second, other industries don't have the fixed tie between salary and revenue, although a couple of the other sports do. Tied into that... just a quick look at baseball. Baseball players took a paycut for the 2020 season based on the number of games played. Their salaries were pro-rated. NHL players were not willing to do that, so they got paid their full paychecks for the 20-21 season despite it only being 56 games long. So, the combination of the full paychecks, the hard 50-50 split, and the loss of gate revenue means the players owe the owners money. They *knew* they were going to, because that's how the CBA was laid out.

Third, the other leagues aren't quite so gate driven because of their TV contracts. The NHL just signed nice, big new TV contracts so they should be more insulated better from this kind of thing in the future.

 

[duhmetreE]

My thinking is that, simply, other industries are able to provide raises still. Including the other major sports. What is it that keeps the NHL in neutral.

Escrow.

 

[egelband]

The NHL is the most gate revenue driven league of the major 4 sports in the US, so its not surprising.

So maybe they should arrange a better line of credit or something. My point is simply that it’s a terrific product and yet somehow they can’t give out raises. I could understand a year or two of “hardship” but now they’re indicating basically no raises for five years.

 

[egelband]

First of all, the NHL is providing raises. The cap is probably going up by $1m and will go up by $1m per year every year until the debt is paid off, at which point the cap will again be based entirely on the 50-50 split.

Second, other industries don't have the fixed tie between salary and revenue, although a couple of the other sports do. Tied into that... just a quick look at baseball. Baseball players took a paycut for the 2020 season based on the number of games played. Their salaries were pro-rated. NHL players were not willing to do that, so they got paid their full paychecks for the 20-21 season despite it only being 56 games long. So, the combination of the full paychecks, the hard 50-50 split, and the loss of gate revenue means the players owe the owners money. They *knew* they were going to, because that's how the CBA was laid out.

Third, the other leagues aren't quite so gate driven because of their TV contracts. The NHL just signed nice, big new TV contracts so they should be more insulated better from this kind of thing in the future.

I get it. There are statutory reasons for the stagnation in salaries. But I’m talking big picture. One million dollar increases per team is like 1.5 percent. And inflation is going to be - and is - wayyyy higher than that.
If you want to tell me that players are well-paid already and they should stuff it, that’s reasonable. But in a vacuum it just doesn’t add up. Just my opinion.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

So maybe they should arrange a better line of credit or something. My point is simply that it’s a terrific product and yet somehow they can’t give out raises. I could understand a year or two of “hardship” but now they’re indicating basically no raises for five years.

It's shared revenue, who would give them a raise?

 

[egelband]

It's shared revenue, who would give them a raise?

You don’t think this industry can manage 3 or 5 percent raises if they wanted to? That’s my only point here.

 

[Tawnos]

You don’t think this industry can manage 3 or 5 percent raises if they wanted to? That’s my only point here.

And this is why I'm arguing with you. You don't seem to understand. The league *could* manage the 3 or 5 percent raises, but the players traded away those raises to keep their incomes full for last season.

 

[duhmetreE]

Jones, Georgiev and a 1st.



Get it done.

Recoup some assets with Strome... maybe get a 1st from Minn.

It solidifies our top9 centers if/when Mika is re-signed. Dvorak can play anywhere in the middle 6

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I’m not giving up the 2022 1st for Dvorak

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Dvorak is not worth a top prospect and a 1st.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Mika a trois

Mika Zibaneswap

 

[Shesterkybomb]

You don’t think this industry can manage 3 or 5 percent raises if they wanted to? That’s my only point here.

Well its shared revenue so the players would have to give themselves a raise? The league kept the players contracts as they were in exchange for this, the players didn't have their pay cut when the league revenue went down.

 

[NYR Viper]

I get the sense that Blais was brought in to be a Fast-like player here in his versatility to move up and down the line-up and provide a physical presence. We are going to see him all over the place.

The guy I wouldn't sleep on is Dryden Hunt as well. If we look at his stats from the last 3 years

2018-2019 - Age 23
NHL
10 points in 31 games played
11:04 average ice time
-2.8 corsi rel
-2.5 FF rel
65 hits in 31 games

AHL
36 points in 46 gp


2019-2020 - Age 24
NHL
4 points in 21 games played
10:30 average ice time
-1.8 corsi rel
+0.5 FF rel
37 hits in 21 games

AHL
29 points in 35 games


2020-2021 - Age 25
NHL
8 points in 26 games played
11:58 average ice time
+3.1 corsi rel
+3.4 FF rel
94 hits in 26 games eek


If we just use his point total over these 3 seasons from the NHL, we see 22 points in 78 games played with 196 hits in that same timeframe and a REMARKABLE 36 PIMS's (which is low for someone who play a very obvious physical style). All of that in an average ice time of 11:12 overall per game.

 

[egelband]

And this is why I'm arguing with you. You don't seem to understand. The league *could* manage the 3 or 5 percent raises, but the players traded away those raises to keep their incomes full for last season.

Ok. I’m with you. And I totally appreciate that there are statutory reasons for what’s happening. I’m questioning why we’ve come to this point. Did players in other leagues give up future earnings to cover the last year?

 

[egelband]

Well its shared revenue so the players would have to give themselves a raise? The league kept the players contracts as they were in exchange for this, the players didn't have their pay cut when the league revenue went down.

If it’s a bad deal, fair enough. Maybe that’s the answer.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I would have happily given up our 2021 1st+ for Dvorak.

not tossing away that 2022 lottery ticket for him just yet.

Jones and both 2nds

 

[egelband]

Sorry to have hijacked the chat. I’m just saying that it seems like - for whatever reason - the NHL is handling the pandemic worse than other industries.
I appreciate that there are very good reasons for the ins and outs. But broadly the management seems poor. To me.

 

[Tawnos]

Ok. I’m with you. And I totally appreciate that there are statutory reasons for what’s happening. I’m questioning why we’ve come to this point. Did players in other leagues give up future earnings to cover the last year?

Nope, players in other leagues gave up last year's earnings to cover the last year. This is, again, what I'm trying to tell you. The NHL isn't handling this poorly, they just handled it differently.

 

[RGY]

I am interested in Dvorak, but the price would have to come down to a 2nd and a lesser prospect or two. Buchnevich just went for a 2nd and Sammy Blais. Reinhart went for a 1st and a goalie prospect. I know Dvorak is a Center, but Reinhart has performed better on a lesser team and Buchnevich has straight up outperformed him in general.

2023 2nd Round pick + Skinner.