Value of: Ron Francis & Craig Conroy at the trade deadline

[Ianturnedbull]

Non-Mod Warning: This is not a Historical Comparison.

I believe the balance of the league, and what might shake up at trade deadline depends on the executive decisions of these two...ugh...executives.
Calgary and Seattle are the medicine for what ails your team.

How willing to do business are these two GMs?

Seattle being an expansion team should want a few picks/prospects.

Calgary is a team that needs to shift their priorities. Almost making the playoffs is not what they need.

Click to read more...

 

[hurdemz]

If Seattle decides to be sellers, what's available and at what price?

 

[Mike Jones]

Any team that's roughly 6-8 points or more out of a playoff spot at the deadline should try to clear out their pending UFAs. If Seattle and Calgary are both in that situation then they should be sellers. Calgary has three pending UFAs who should be moved for a huge return. Greer (a fourth) probably would have brought in a 3rd or something but he's out something like 7-8 weeks now due to an injury.

 

[Chainshot]

Non-Mod Warning: This is not a Historical Comparison.

I believe the balance of the league, and what might shake up at trade deadline depends on the executive decisions of these two...ugh...executives.
Calgary and Seattle are the medicine for what ails your team.

How willing to do business are these two GMs?

Seattle being an expansion team should want a few picks/prospects.

Calgary is a team that needs to shift their priorities. Almost making the playoffs is not what they need.

Francis has bucked conventional hockey pundit wisdom with some of his actions in Seattle thus far. He's also a bit limited in that his expiring UFA contracts look like they almost all have partial NTC list protection (everyone but Bellemare). I don't know if he wants to sell and then if he does, he's got a lot of trade conditions that seem to put a drag on the return value.

As for Calgary, do we even know what they are trying to do there? They have had some turmoil when Treliving was running the show, still seems there is some measure of discontent AND the weird mix of long-term investments on what could be some boat anchor contracts down the line to perhaps try to build around anew. But he does have a piece that a lot of teams are likely to want most in Lindholm so he seems like he could charge up his collection of assets to try to reshape his roster this summer.

 

[Jared Dunn]

Calgary eventually moves Lindholm and Tanev, not as sure about Hanifin. Definitely could see Seattle moving Wennberg, Bellemare and Schultz, maybe getting the pick they traded for Tatar back but otherwise don't see them doing that much. I doubt they'd move Eberle but who knows

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

I'll give you John Cullen, Jeff Parker and Zarley Zalapski, For Ron Francis, Grant Jennings and Ulf Samuelsson does that sound fair?

 

[Mike Jones]

Calgary eventually moves Lindholm and Tanev, not as sure about Hanifin.

I agree. Even though all three have to go there seems to be some blinkered notion that they should still sign Hanifan. Just trade the guy and use the picks. This is one chance to trade three guys and build a pile of assets that can help the team going forward.

The problem with HFboards is that whenever you talk about rebuilds people start talking about holding their favourite players back even though that only reduces the overall return and prolongs a painful rebuild. If the Flames are building for the future they have to trade Hanifan when they have the chance.

 

[Jared Dunn]

I agree. Even though all three have to go there seems to be some blinkered notion that they should still sign Hanifan. Just trade the guy and use the picks. This is one chance to trade three guys and build a pile of assets that can help the team going forward.

The problem with HFboards is that whenever you talk about rebuilds people start talking about holding their favourite players back even though that only reduces the overall return and prolongs a painful rebuild. If the Flames are building for the future they have to trade Hanifan when they have the chance.

I can see the sense in signing Hanifin given he's only 27 and they're locking up probably 5 of his best seasons, but he would return the most. If they weren't married to Huberdeau and his deal I think the scorched earth approach would be more realistic

 

[Mike Jones]

I can see the sense in signing Hanifin given he's only 27 and they're locking up probably 5 of his best seasons, but he would return the most. If they weren't married to Huberdeau and his deal I think the scorched earth approach would be more realistic

At least 2 of those years are going to be used for rebuilding (Whether Flames ownership and management know it or not) so you're down to three. And those three years will probably be playoff years but probably not Stanley Cup contention years. So what's the point of keeping him around if they're going to be used up without much to show for them?

And the three big contracts (Hubs, Kadri, and Markstrom) are useful in helping assure that the Flames are near the cap floor as they rebuild.

 

[Figgy44]

Francis has bucked conventional hockey pundit wisdom with some of his actions in Seattle thus far. He's also a bit limited in that his expiring UFA contracts look like they almost all have partial NTC list protection (everyone but Bellemare). I don't know if he wants to sell and then if he does, he's got a lot of trade conditions that seem to put a drag on the return value.

As for Calgary, do we even know what they are trying to do there? They have had some turmoil when Treliving was running the show, still seems there is some measure of discontent AND the weird mix of long-term investments on what could be some boat anchor contracts down the line to perhaps try to build around anew. But he does have a piece that a lot of teams are likely to want most in Lindholm so he seems like he could charge up his collection of assets to try to reshape his roster this summer.

We should be selling all our UFA if they aren't being extended... but TBH as a Flames fan, I'm not actually sure what Conroy and Co will do. I don't know what ownership's mandate is. Our only good piece of evidence of what he might do is the Toffoli trade and Zadorov trade and even then... I don't know. He's claimed he wanted the cap space to facilitate trades since the Z trade.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I don't know that all of them would move, but Eberle, Bellemare, Schultz and Wennberg all make sense as depth adds for contenders (at depth add prices).

The intrigue occurs if Larsson and Gourde are put into play. There's not much depth in the rental market at their respective positions. Teams want term. Seattle could make them even more attractive with retention.

 

[Mike Jones]

He's claimed he wanted the cap space to facilitate trades since the Z trade.

He might be saying this to cover what his real intentions are. I'm beginning to think that this resistance to naming reality and using the r (rebuild) word might be because they fear how the fans will react. This would be weird because, of all fanbases, Calgary seems to have a more informed group of fans than most. They would probably tolerate a rebuild (if it makes sense) more than others might.

 

[Marlowe Syn]

I would legit be mildly surprised if Francis does much of anything. That man is loathe to make any trades it seems. Going back to his Carolina GM days. I thought he was a poor choice to be a GM of an expansion team. The most stand pat GM I can think of.

 

[Figgy44]

He might be saying this to cover what his real intentions are. I'm beginning to think that this resistance to naming reality and using the r (rebuild) word might be because they fear how the fans will react. This would be weird because, of all fanbases, Calgary seems to have a more informed group of fans than most. They would probably tolerate a rebuild (if it makes sense) more than others might.

Agreed. But Bean (CSEC) literally said in a press conference with Maloney beside him that he's not allowed to use the word rebuild. That's why we have no damn clue. Quite a few of us believe this is an issue with ownership's mandate rather than what management (including Treliving) wanted to do.

The Toffoli and Z trades are giving us "rebuild on the fly" vibes. We hope it goes better than Treliving's iteration, but IMO Treliving did quite well having such an uphill battle of being told a playoff mandate/retool on the fly vs tanking in 2015-2017 for top pieces when he first arrived and rebuilding that way.

 

[LTIR]

CGY should move Kadri to Colorado and do a proper retool.

Byram +1st for Kadri with retention

 

[Schemp]

I'll give you John Cullen, Jeff Parker and Zarley Zalapski, For Ron Francis, Grant Jennings and Ulf Samuelsson does that sound fair?

It didn't to me way back when and even less now!

 

[Jets]

I know there are teams out there lacking C depth but I don’t think either of Francis or Conroy are the answer at their ages

 

[Double Dion]

I can see the sense in signing Hanifin given he's only 27 and they're locking up probably 5 of his best seasons, but he would return the most. If they weren't married to Huberdeau and his deal I think the scorched earth approach would be more realistic

Huberdeau is probably our worst player. He won't prevent scorched earth. Backlund, Coleman, Weegar, Andersson, Markstrom and Kadri are the veteran guys signed beyond this year who contribute to winning.

 

[Mike Jones]

Agreed. But Bean (CSEC) literally said in a press conference with Maloney beside him that he's not allowed to use the word rebuild. That's why we have no damn clue. Quite a few of us believe this is an issue with ownership's mandate rather than what management (including Treliving) wanted to do.

The Toffoli and Z trades are giving us "rebuild on the fly" vibes. We hope it goes better than Treliving's iteration, but IMO Treliving did quite well having such an uphill battle of being told a playoff mandate/retool on the fly vs tanking in 2015-2017 for top pieces when he first arrived and rebuilding that way.

"rebuild in the fly" is just another weasel term for kicking the can down the road. The real rebuild will no doubt be left to the next ownership and management group.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

It didn't to me way back when and even less now!

...Well, uhhhhhh, umm, T.F.S.

 

[Figgy44]

"rebuild in the fly" is just another weasel term for kicking the can down the road. The real rebuild will no doubt be left to the next ownership and management group.

Agreed.

I do hope Edwards sees the light and allows for a proper rebuild. It doesn't have to be scorched earth. Just 2-3 years of accumulating good/young assets and developing from within with no playoff mandate. But who knows if he would agree with that.

 

[Mike Jones]

Agreed.

I do hope Edwards sees the light and allows for a proper rebuild. It doesn't have to be scorched earth. Just 2-3 years of accumulating good/young assets and developing from within with no playoff mandate. But who knows if he would agree with that.

There are enough young players from the AHL team being auditioned right now that a rebuild could be compressed and shortened by even a year.

 

[StreetHawk]

Any team that's roughly 6-8 points or more out of a playoff spot at the deadline should try to clear out their pending UFAs. If Seattle and Calgary are both in that situation then they should be sellers. Calgary has three pending UFAs who should be moved for a huge return. Greer (a fourth) probably would have brought in a 3rd or something but he's out something like 7-8 weeks now due to an injury.

Wit the West, the WC spots are not playing at a high level where you can't catch them.

Sea is 2 points in back. Cal is 5 in back, but they need to make a call on their 3 key UFAs to be soon. Have like 15 games or so left prior to March 8 TDL to decide. At this point, I'd say Cal will sell, but SEA probably pushes for that final spot. Probably be too close to waive the white flag.

Eberle, Wennberg, Tatar, Schultz are their UFAs to be. Schultz as RHD likely holds the highest value, then Eberle since he (outside of his first year of PO with Isles has 45 points in 63 PO games) Tatar has 13 in 52 games. So, don't expect much from him at his age now. Wennberg has 17 in 42 games.

 

[bleedgreen]

I would legit be mildly surprised if Francis does much of anything. That man is loathe to make any trades it seems. Going back to his Carolina GM days. I thought he was a poor choice to be a GM of an expansion team. The most stand pat GM I can think of.

He made moves, the complaint was actually that he never did player for player moves. Which never made sense as a complaint, as the Canes were a rebuilding team so getting back picks and prospects for vets tended to make a ton of sense.

He traded off Sekera, Tlusty, Harrison, Gleason, Versteeg, Estaal, Liles, Hainsey, Stalberg and Jooris all at trade deadlines so there wouldn’t be a reason to be mildly surprised if he made moves at the deadline. He made selling trades at every single deadline he had for the Canes.

 

[Marlowe Syn]

He made moves, the complaint was actually that he never did player for player moves. Which never made sense as a complaint, as the Canes were a rebuilding team so getting back picks and prospects for vets tended to make a ton of sense.

He traded off Sekera, Tlusty, Harrison, Gleason, Versteeg, Estaal, Liles, Hainsey, Stalberg and Jooris all at trade deadlines so there wouldn’t be a reason to be mildly surprised if he made moves at the deadline. He made selling trades at every single deadline he had for the Canes.

Fair points.