Rick Nash Part II

[NJBlueShirt]

Unwavering support?

Yup, there would be people here that would defend Nash's play regardless of what he does. He can do no wrong in their eyes.

 

[GregSirico]

He's starting to look like Lindros towards the end.

I wouldn't go that far ... I seriously say given 1/2Y if we see a further decline then yes.

 

[Zil]

Nope.

I realize that he has good possession numbers, but I don't see how anyone can ignore that his cap hit makes it nearly impossible for us to land the elite first line center we desperately need.

 

[GregSirico]

I realize that he has good possession numbers, but I don't see how anyone can ignore that his cap hit makes it nearly impossible for us to land the elite first line center we desperately need.

The cap hit is something that makes him hard to move. And in fact if he was CHEAPER we wouldn't even be thinking about trading him. This whole conversation is moot.

 

[ImIdaho]

I realize that he has good possession numbers, but I don't see how anyone can ignore that his cap hit makes it nearly impossible for us to land the elite first line center we desperately need.

I think the only way we move him and get what we want is if we package him. This summer, Sather better be on the phone asking Staal for that extension. If it's a no go, move Staal with Nash.

If Staal does resign, I'd package Nash with Girardi.

 

[Zil]

I think the only way we move him and get what we want is if we package him. This summer, Sather better be on the phone asking Staal for that extension. If it's a no go, move Staal with Nash.

If Staal does resign, I'd package Nash with Girardi.

I don't mean to pick on you, but I keep seeing people bring up trading Girardi like it's a realistic option. Nash might want out and be willing to waive his NTC, but Girardi just signed a massive extension with NMC/NTC for the length of the deal. There's no way Girardi agrees to a deal, nor do I think management is savvy enough to realize that he really doesn't fit Vigneault's system. I can't see them suddenly making an about face and deciding to try and dump him.

 

[GFiP*]

He will never help them win a cup so it's better to cut their losses as soon as possible. Nash and Richards need to get on an nj transit bus and get dropped in the middle of a Newark project.

 

[jniklast]

If the question is trading him for positive or zero value the answer has to be yes. His 7.8M in cap space could mean re-signing a guy like Stralman, and that's definitely a plus.

Now if we have to retain salary or get another negative contract back, then I'd rather try another year.

 

[aufheben]

Another Brassard? I'd trade him for a Big Mac & fries.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Yup, there would be people here that would defend Nash's play regardless of what he does. He can do no wrong in their eyes.

Hyperbole much?

I think it's the opposite, the unwavering hatred of the guy who can do no right.

Nash didn't play well in Game 5, I thought he was slow to the puck and late on the backcheck. He made some nice plays, but he didn't do enough. His OT open net...damn man, the guy is just snakebitten. But as far as his overall play in Game 5, I think he didn't perform particularly well like he did in Games 1-4.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

You have to get rid of this guy. Worthless. If you can't perform in the stanley cup finals it's time to go.

Offseason Game Plan:

1. Trade or buyout all players who didn't perform well in the SCF.

2. Get all Kings who performed well in the SCF.

3. Win SCF.

 

[GregSirico]

Offseason Game Plan:

1. Trade or buyout all players who didn't perform well in the SCF.

2. Get all Kings who performed well in the SCF.

3. Win SCF.

 

[Ail]

I realize that he has good possession numbers, but I don't see how anyone can ignore that his cap hit makes it nearly impossible for us to land the elite first line center we desperately need.

Since when has money been the problem with the team landing an elite center? In fact I would say that having money is reason they haven't landed an elite center.

Gomez
Drury
Richards

All guys who were pretty elite centers at one point. Drury was borderline and never should have been considered a guy to carry offense. That would be like the Rangers signing Mike Richards next year (if he was bought out) and expecting him to do what he did for Philadelphia.

The only way they are getting an elite number one OFFENSIVELY gifted center is drafting them, or making a big trade ala Seguin. Alternatively Derek Stepan could take that final leap and become elite on both sides of the puck.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

-He did not help us get this far by his defensive play. Other players did more and were better on defense

That's your opinion, not a fact.

-He did not score neither enough nor in impact situation. He did not score in the SCF.

He did score the GWG against Montreal in Game 2 and I believe he led the team (possibly the league, not sure) in GWG during the regular season to get us to the playoffs.

-He did not enhance his line or the players around him (Queue up all the other almosts)

He didn't, that's true, but you'd be blind or stubborn to say he didn't constantly set up his linemates with potential goals.

-The team was structured around his implied offense, and he didn't deliver

The team is structured around his "implied offense"? What the hell does that mean? No it isn't, this team is built 4 lines deep and around our goaltender and defense. The Rangers are not build around Rick Nash's "implied offense."

-his cap hit will hurt this team because he will be hard to move and he will hurt the possibility of signing key players and brining in better playoff performers to help Lundqvist during his prime

Speculative, at best. The Cap will go up, none of us know what the numbers will be, who will sign for what, and who will become available. I agree he's not worth $7.8M, but he's a definitely a $6.7-7M player. $1M over his worth is not going to break the bank.

-Just for perspective, the Rangers may not have a shot during Rick Nash's playing career even if he's not on the Ranger

This is the most truthful and saddest part of your post.

Should I get down on Dorsett?

Nah, he played well.

 

[Ail]

Yup, there would be people here that would defend Nash's play regardless of what he does. He can do no wrong in their eyes.

There are less than 10 of us on a gigantic sub-forum for one of the biggest markets in hockey defending him.

Nash doesn't have much support right now.

 

[Zil]

Since when has money been the problem with the team landing an elite center? In fact I would say that having money is reason they haven't landed an elite center.

Gomez
Drury
Richards

All guys who were pretty elite centers at one point. Drury was borderline and never should have been considered a guy to carry offense. That would be like the Rangers signing Mike Richards next year (if he was bought out) and expecting him to do what he did for Philadelphia.

The only way they are getting an elite number one OFFENSIVELY gifted center is drafting them, or making a big trade ala Seguin. Alternatively Derek Stepan could take that final leap and become elite on both sides of the puck.

I know there's a 99.99999% chance he gets extended, but right now Stamkos is two seasons from hitting UFA status at age 26. If he were to hit the market and we didn't even have the room to get in on the bidding I would be severely disappointed.

 

[Ail]

I know there's a 99.99999% chance he gets extended, but right now Stamkos is two seasons from hitting UFA status at age 26. If he were to hit the market and we didn't even have the room to get in on the bidding I would be severely disappointed.

I think we all would, but can you really build your team around hoping one of the league's premier goal scoring centers hits FA way earlier in his career than he should? Not to mention, I feel like if the Rangers really wanted to get him, they would find a way, somehow.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Although I understand why the trade was made, I didn't want Nash from the start.

I would trade him for a young 50 point forward, but I hope that a pick or prospect or two would be coming back along with it.

 

[Raspewtin]

Oh yeah, without even thinking about it.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

That's your opinion, not a fact.

Are we debating if anything is a pure axiomatic fact?

Do you think in your heart of hearts that he was even a top 4 driving force in terms of the Rangers stellar defensive play?


He did score the GWG against Montreal in Game 2 and I believe he led the team (possibly the league, not sure) in GWG during the regular season to get us to the playoffs.

In a route game against their backup. It wasn't a game breaking game winner. (i.e. see last night in OT)

I'm not talking about the regular season man!



He didn't, that's true, but you'd be blind or stubborn to say he didn't constantly set up his linemates with potential goals.

This is why I put in the queue up the other almost. Rick Nash is just an unlucky boy! Everyone else was able to chip in a good goal, or get their line mates to catch the pass. I'm not even going to go into the realm of curses/snakebitten. Get real!


The team is structured around his "implied offense"? What the hell does that mean? No it isn't, this team is built 4 lines deep and around our goaltender and defense. The Rangers are not build around Rick Nash's "implied offense."

His "implied" offense is the reason he was drafted number one overall. His implied offense is why he is hyped to the ozone layer. His implied hype is why the Ranger made a big trade instead of booting Torts and made other major moves because Rick Nash needed a chance to do his thing at the big show, but he didn't.


Speculative, at best. The Cap will go up, none of us know what the numbers will be, who will sign for what, and who will become available. I agree he's not worth $7.8M, but he's a definitely a $6.7-7M player. $1M over his worth is not going to break the bank.

The Canadian dollar didn't do well. The league won't see a good cap bump until the TV contract contribution during the 2015 offseason.

This is the most truthful and saddest part of your post.

People don't realize this yet. Does Rick Nash not deserve my criticism. Please do not include random posters side comments in your response to my post.


Nah, he played well.

No one in their right mind would blame him anyway.

I know it's not good to edit a post, but I couldn't answer all your posts effectively. I bolded my answer to each one of your statements.

 

[Ail]

No one in their right mind would blame him anyway.

No one in their right mind would blame any one player at all.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

No one in their right mind would blame any one player at all.

When the rest of the team did, and Rick Nash didn't based on his supposed ability, why wouldn't someone say this in The Rick Nash thread?

 

[Carlos Ranger]

I was his biggest supporter before the start of this season. Now? I'd rather never see him again.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I was his biggest supporter before the start of this season. Now? I'd rather never see him again.

What an amazing defensive play!

I mean don't you see how he stuck his stick out before Rick Nash shot, yet Rick Nash couldn't give it a slight lift to put it into a gaping net.

 

[Richter Scale]

I would give him another playoffs and see how it goes. The playoffs are still a new-ish thing to him, and I would want to see if he can turn things around. Also not like he wasn't getting chances, the guy just couldn't ****ing finish to save his life, which in my mind is pretty damning - and concerning moving forward - since he's supposed to be, and is paid to be, an elite goal scorer. Someone like 31 might look at that statement and say, well, law of averages; it'll even out. And yea, small sample size, I agree - but if he wasn't hurt it's pretty ****in concerning that our "elite scorer" wasn't able to put away a lot of the gimme chances he had these playoffs. That said, despite that big concern, I give him another crack at it.

But your overall theme is if you don't score you stink and you are worthless ... ever think of giving credit to the other team defensively? Just a thought.

Loved the defensive aspect he added to his game in the playoffs. I give him plenty of credit for that. But the ****ing guy needs to score. He is paid to do that, and he is paid to be more than a defensive forward. Plenty of forwards in this league play a great defensive game in the playoffs and still manage to score goals. Toews, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Parise, Kopitar, Bergeron have all scored at at least twice the rate of Rick Nash in the playoffs and played elite defensive games at the same time, while being paid less. One does not exclude the other. Hell even a player like Hossa - considered one of the better defensive forwards in the league - has historically scored at twice the rate Nash has in the playoffs to this point in their respective careers.

**** man. For all those lauding Nash's defensive play, to put the complaints about his lack of playoff goal scoring in perspective: ****ing Brian Boyle has scored goals in the playoffs at a higher pace than Rick Nash has. Would you say Rick Nash's defensive play was better than Boyle's? I sure as hell wouldn't. And I sure as **** wouldn't have said that it was $6 million better. Even if Boyle gets a decent raise - which he completely deserves, and I hope Sather doesn't let him go - there is no way he ends up being paid even half what Nash does. Time for Nash to score some god damned goals in the playoffs.

Despite being as furious with him as probably anyone is right now, I don't trade him unless the return is something you can't pass up. But he's on a tight leash and not getting a lot more chances from me.