Rick Nash Part II

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I totally agree with the sentiment of that article.

There's a time for caring about point totals for individual players, but that time is absolutely not when you're down 3 - 1 in the stanley cup finals. As long as this season continues, the only thing that matters is winning games.

There will be plenty of time to focus on the macro situation with every player in the offseason.

Rick Nash increasing his goal output would certainly help win those games.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

You still have not answered my question: "What exactly should we expect from Rick Nash at this point in your view?"

I don't care about any of the players you mentioned above because none of them are helping us to win a Stanley Cup this year.

Rick Nash is a New York Ranger. His job is to help us win. What should he be doing to achieve that?

Permanent slump.

 

[Pizza]

I totally agree with the sentiment of that article.

There's a time for caring about point totals for individual players, but that time is absolutely not when you're down 3 - 1 in the stanley cup finals. As long as this season continues, the only thing that matters is winning games.

There will be plenty of time to focus on the macro situation with every player in the offseason.

Rick Nash scoring goals helps us to win games, n'est-ce pas ?

 

[CJCNYR]

You still have not answered my question: "What exactly should we expect from Rick Nash at this point in your view?"

I don't care about any of the players you mentioned above because none of them are helping us to win a Stanley Cup this year. Rick Nash's slump seems to extend the length of his entire playoff career. The bulk of which unfortunately has been with us.

Rick Nash is a New York Ranger. His job is to help us win. What should he be doing to achieve that?

Being a responsible two way hockey player is the minium that should be required from every player. Not just the high paid ones, but maybe especially from them. Players with elite level salaries should be expected to score in the playoffs. Are you really saying that's asking too much? I'm really hoping he can contribute at least one goal the next game. It would certainly help.

What he should and is doing is helping this team get further than it has in 20 years.

People just don't seem to understand there is more to this game than points. Do I expect him to score more yes I do, but just because he doesn't score does not mean he is not playing well. However people come in here saying we should buy him out, he is a waste of space, worthless, get him off this team is absolutely asinine.


Everyone is in agreement he should be scoring more and is overpaid. That is not a debate, but when people say he is playing bad because he isn't scoring is just wrong and hopefully people read the article and understand he is not a 1 dimension me first score at whatever it takes player. If you want that go root for Ovi and his countless early playoff exits.

Individual players do not win games, teams do.

 

[haveandare]

Rick Nash increasing his goal output would certainly help win those games.

Rick Nash scoring goals helps us to win games, n'est-ce pas ?

Yes. So could many other players scorings goals. So could Nash making any other number of plays.

Do people think that him turning some switch in his brain is going to lead to goals? He's playing the right way now. He hasn't been for a while, but he is now. No matter what I say, no matter what he says, no matter who wins what HF debate - the guy is close to a goal he's worked his whole life for, and he's playing well. Would I like him to score? Yes. Do I care if its him or anybody else? Absolutely not. Winning is first priority. Nash pleasing everyone is down the list.

 

[aufheben]

Nash was brought in to score goals in the playoffs. Playing "well" isn't good enough.

Rangers who have more goals than Nash:

St. Louis (8)
Hagelin (7)
Brassard (6)
Richards (5)
Pouliot (5)
Stepan (5)
Zuccarello (5)
McDonagh (4)
Kreider (4)

D. Moore is tied with (3)

****ing Carcillo has 1 less goal in 16 less games.

Forwards who have less points than Nash:

D. Moore
Boyle

 

[jerseyjinx94]

I'll just address these all in one post.

I'd like to think you're better than this dense answer.

The guy was brought here to be a gamebreaker. He hasn't been. Its amazing how the argument has shifted to "well, hes not a liability out there" like thats some sort of positive for a player of Nash's caliber.

If the Ranger's lose in these next 3 games, you gotta wonder what might have been had Nash done his job and put some more pucks in the net.

That's fair. If Nash had "done his job" i.e. you mean put the puck in the net, which, if you haven't noticed, is not something that is done on his own. The entire team is having trouble scoring goals, for the most part, and in the playoffs you can't expect one player to will his way through a wall of defenders and score. He IS doing his job.

Marty St. Louis says hello.

In the 4 games vs. LA, Nash has hands down been our most noticeable offensive player, other than Zuccarello. It's all opinion based, so, if you think St. Louis has been better, fine, that's your opinion. But Nash's physicality, speed, and forecheck have created tons of chances, every single game.

So you wouldn't trade Nash for Kopitar for the playoffs?

I would trade Nash for Kopitar at any point for any reason. Kopitar is a far superior player.

given that we are down 3-1 heading back across the country and our "best forward not named zuke" has exactly zero goals.

were are exactly where we should be. hes not even our best non scoring checking forward.

god help us if nash is our 2nd best forward.

I don't even know how to respond to this because I am unsure of your point.

 

[CJCNYR]

Nash was brought in to score goals in the playoffs. Playing "well" isn't good enough.

yeah 2 years ago he was brought in to score goals, read the article I just posted, roles change....


BTW if you are brought in to score goals, is it helpful to take you off the PP and put you on the PK?

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

What he should and is doing is helping this team get further than it has in 20 years.

People just don't seem to understand there is more to this game than points. Do I expect him to score more yes I do, but just because he doesn't score does not mean he is not playing well. However people come in here saying we should buy him out, he is a waste of space, worthless, get him off this team is absolutely asinine.


Everyone is in agreement he should be scoring more and is overpaid. That is not a debate, but when people say he is playing bad because he isn't scoring is just wrong and hopefully people read the article and understand he is not a 1 dimension me first score at whatever it takes player. If you want that go root for Ovi and his countless early playoff exits.

Individual players do not win games, teams do.

What the informed posters are saying is that we agree with you that it's a team game, and if Rick Nash is only going to be a decent defensive player, the team shouldn't have made the Columbus trade in the first place.

He is here to create the dynamic offense that we craved. He was supposed to score the big goal so that we wouldn't have to have heart attacks by watching the Rangers cling for dear life to a one goal game as Lundqvist plays out of this world.

Whether Nash likes it or not, he was brought here with the intent that the offense would be around him. He wanted to be here, and he's not elite at crunch time. He's just more than bad.

Stop arguing with actual gripes by reiterating that you disagree with other posters whacky points than the one to which you are responding.

We would be in a completely different position right now if Rick Nash was a force on offense not 2nd or 3rd line quality defender.

 

[aufheben]

His role hasn't changed. He's literally a Benoit Pouliot who kills penalties. His only goals this post-season are against a backup, and that backup's backup.

This isn't the first time he's underperformed in the playoffs. I simply don't think his game is suited for it. 17 of his 26 goals were against non-playoff teams.

 

[offdacrossbar]

that article is more cover for an underperforming, over paid rick nash

10 total points in the entire playoffs and a complete no show in the scf and hes playing well ? huh ? hes paid to score goals and he has failed.

imo, all the stuff hes being given credit for doing INSTEAD of scoring should be happening anyway. in fact, all the "hard work" he shows is what creates scoring. the "hard work" isnt anything extra or special. its just what good players do to create chances and score points. its as though rick nash "trying" is the same as rick nash "scoring". it isnt. he gets no extra credit from me for doing the same job brian boyle does or dom moore.

without points, rick nash isnt helping us win. hes paid to score and he should be judged on that.

hes here to score points, you can keep the other stuff he does other than score, if hes scoring we are a more dangerous, balanced team. weve got other guys who can do that other stuff for less money.

you dont want your best sales closer staying inside answering customer service calls. you want him closing deals. when he isnt, hes worthless and having him do another job well doesnt change that fact that hes failing.

right now hes just a shorter brian boyle. pretty sad.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I'll just address these all in one post.



That's fair. If Nash had "done his job" i.e. you mean put the puck in the net, which, if you haven't noticed, is not something that is done on his own. The entire team is having trouble scoring goals, for the most part, and in the playoffs you can't expect one player to will his way through a wall of defenders and score. He IS doing his job.



In the 4 games vs. LA, Nash has hands down been our most noticeable offensive player, other than Zuccarello. It's all opinion based, so, if you think St. Louis has been better, fine, that's your opinion. But Nash's physicality, speed, and forecheck have created tons of chances, every single game.



I would trade Nash for Kopitar at any point for any reason. Kopitar is a far superior player.



I don't even know how to respond to this because I am unsure of your point.

you said hes our "second best forward" my point is, if true, then we're exactly where we should be. down 3-1 and his o-fer in this series has something to do with that

 

[offdacrossbar]

yeah 2 years ago he was brought in to score goals, read the article I just posted, roles change....


BTW if you are brought in to score goals, is it helpful to take you off the PP and put you on the PK?

perhaps the coaching staff isnt drinking the msg cool aide about how "great" hes playing.

his play/game is better suited for pk and not pp right now.

hes showing exactly zero offensive ability

 

[haveandare]

that article is more cover for an underperforming, over paid rick nash

10 total points in the entire playoffs and a complete no show in the scf and hes playing well ? huh ? hes paid to score goals and he has failed.

imo, all the stuff hes being given credit for doing INSTEAD of scoring should be happening anyway. in fact, all the "hard work" he shows is what creates scoring. the "hard work" isnt anything extra or special. its just what good players do to create chances and score points. its as though rick nash "trying" is the same as rick nash "scoring". it isnt. he gets no extra credit from me for doing the same job brian boyle does or dom moore.

without points, rick nash isnt helping us win. hes paid to score and he should be judged on that.

hes here to score points, you can keep the other stuff he does other than score, if hes scoring we are a more dangerous, balanced team. weve got other guys who can do that other stuff for less money.

you dont want your best sales closer staying inside answering customer service calls. you want him closing deals. when he isnt, hes worthless and having him do another job well doesnt change that fact that hes failing.

right now hes just a shorter brian boyle. pretty sad.

So, tie game, in OT, Kopitar on the breakaway, Nash the only player back checking. He lifts Kopitar's stick, takes the puck, and feeds a nice pass to a teammate. Rangers go on to win the game.

Yes, admittedly hypothetical.

You honestly wouldn't call that "helping us win" because it's not a goal?

The "other stuff" is stuff every player should do to the extent that it doesn't eat into the rest of their game. It's not unimportant simply because you deem it so, or simply because a scorer is doing it.

If that sales closer is good on a service call, and his service saves you a customer, then that guy is helping your company do business. If it's a day when the numbers determine whether or not your business opens again, that helps. This isn't your typical workday. Every day is the last day. Every little victory is important.

If Nash were scoring a little more and being an absolute floater otherwise, I'd bet anything there'd be just as many people up in arms if his lazy D led to a big goal against. I guarantee you nobody would say that "other stuff" should have been left to someone else.

 

[NYR Viper]

His shot is weak. I'm beginning to wonder if he has a shoulder injury...

 

[CJCNYR]

What the informed posters are saying is that we agree with you that it's a team game, and if Rick Nash is only going to be a decent defensive player, the team shouldn't have made the Columbus trade in the first place.

He is here to create the dynamic offense that we craved. He was supposed to score the big goal so that we wouldn't have to have myocardial infarctions by watching the Rangers cling for dear life to a one goal game as Lundqvist plays out of this world.

Whether Nash likes it or not, he was brought here with the intent that the offense would be around him. He wanted to be here, and he's not elite at crunch time. He's just more than bad.

Stop arguing with actual gripes by reiterating that you disagree with other posters whacky points than the one to which you are responding.

We would be in a completely different position right now if Rick Nash was a force on offense not 2nd or 3rd line quality defender.

I am glad you and some "informed" posters think that is what he was brought here for 2 years ago. I guess things can't change over a 2 year period or the multi-million dollar coach does not agree with you considering he doesn't have him on the PP and has him exerting extra energy on the PK. You guys should be all livid with AV that our "goal scorer" isn't being used in prime goal scoring chances and he keeps him in a defensive role.


BTW lets all just continue the Rick Nash blame game when our leader in points is Ryan McDonagh. Certainly we should only be blaming Nash.

 

[aufheben]

His shot is weak. I'm beginning to wonder if he has a shoulder injury...

Same PPG as last post-season. 1G/5PTS in 12 games...3G/10PTS in 24 games...

'12-13 he was PPG in the regular season. Less than .4 PPG in the '12-13 playoffs.

After getting booted by Boston last year, I said I'd give him another playoff run before judging his play. He hasn't been any different. Stepan and Kreider have both been producing.

 

[CJCNYR]

that article is more cover for an underperforming, over paid rick nash

10 total points in the entire playoffs and a complete no show in the scf and hes playing well ? huh ? hes paid to score goals and he has failed.

imo, all the stuff hes being given credit for doing INSTEAD of scoring should be happening anyway. in fact, all the "hard work" he shows is what creates scoring. the "hard work" isnt anything extra or special. its just what good players do to create chances and score points. its as though rick nash "trying" is the same as rick nash "scoring". it isnt. he gets no extra credit from me for doing the same job brian boyle does or dom moore.

without points, rick nash isnt helping us win. hes paid to score and he should be judged on that.

hes here to score points, you can keep the other stuff he does other than score, if hes scoring we are a more dangerous, balanced team. weve got other guys who can do that other stuff for less money.

you dont want your best sales closer staying inside answering customer service calls. you want him closing deals. when he isnt, hes worthless and having him do another job well doesnt change that fact that hes failing.

right now hes just a shorter brian boyle. pretty sad.

I guess OVI had an amazing season he was paid to score and score he did based on this logic. The New York Rangers are all paid to WIN HOCKEY GAMES, just like every single player in the NHL. I do not think any gm brings in a player and says okay you score. Look at all Stanley cup champion teams, they do not rely on 1 player to do their scoring, they are well rounded and every one pitches in especially when a star play is lacking in goal scoring.

Please name some forwards who have been playing better than Nash in the SCF on the Rangers. is it everyone with a point? Seems that you think that way.

 

[offdacrossbar]

So, tie game, in OT, Kopitar on the breakaway, Nash the only player back checking. He lifts Kopitar's stick, takes the puck, and feeds a nice pass to a teammate. Rangers go on to win the game.

Yes, admittedly hypothetical.

You honestly wouldn't call that "helping us win" because it's not a goal?

The "other stuff" is stuff every player should do to the extent that it doesn't eat into the rest of their game. It's not unimportant simply because you deem it so, or simply because a scorer is doing it.

If that sales closer is good on a service call, and his service saves you a customer, then that guy is helping your company do business. If it's a day when the numbers determine whether or not your business opens again, that helps. This isn't your typical workday. Every day is the last day. Every little victory is important.

If Nash were scoring a little more and being an absolute floater otherwise, I'd bet anything there'd be just as many people up in arms if his lazy D led to a big goal against. I guarantee you nobody would say that "other stuff" should have been left to someone else.

in that specific example, no one would argue with you that rick nash helped us win.

rick is here to score. hes not. no amount of "other stuff" can make up for the fact that hes not doing his job hes paid to do.

i continue to argue that we may not be where we are today if nash had found net a few times. hes one of the few players in this series that can make that kind of difference.

again, nash isnt he only offender here. richards and kreider to a lesser degree need to score.

and like i said before, hes showing zero offense. his shot is non existent. its really strange how a guy that big and strong can take so many wimpy shots.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I guess OVI had an amazing season he was paid to score and score he did based on this logic. The New York Rangers are all paid to WIN HOCKEY GAMES, just like every single player in the NHL. I do not think any gm brings in a player and says okay you score. Look at all Stanley cup champion teams, they do not rely on 1 player to do their scoring, they are well rounded and every one pitches in especially when a star play is lacking in goal scoring.

Please name some forwards who have been playing better than Nash in the SCF on the Rangers. is it everyone with a point? Seems that you think that way.

the entire poo brash zuke line. all better than nash.

msl. better.

hags. better.

im not one who thinks hes been good at all.

and we arent "winning"games in this series. we are "losing" games. we held on last night barely based soley upon henriks will to win and some snow on the goal line.

 

[haveandare]

in that specific example, no one would argue with you that rick nash helped us win.

rick is here to score. hes not. no amount of "other stuff" can make up for the fact that hes not doing his job hes paid to do.

i continue to argue that we may not be where we are today if nash had found net a few times. hes one of the few players in this series that can make that kind of difference.

again, nash isnt he only offender here. richards and kreider to a lesser degree need to score.

and like i said before, hes showing zero offense. his shot is non existent. its really strange how a guy that big and strong can take so many wimpy shots.

That's just my point. I don't disagree that him scoring would be huge. But, there are ways and there are potentially times when playing solidly otherwise can make a huge, huge difference. Like in that example, or in a bunch of other possible situations.

If he can't score, and it looks like he can't, for whatever reason, do we really want him to not do other things well? If we're debating whether or not he should score more, I don't think there's a fan in the world, including Nash himself, who would disagree. It's not about proving it to him or to me or to anyone though, it's about him executing it on the ice, and sometimes you just can't get that done for a whole bunch of possible reasons.

Given that, I'd rather him be responsible on D and try to make some hits than just float around trying to do something that he's just not able to do right now.

 

[aufheben]

Pretty sure the only forwards without a point in the SCF are Richards, Dorsett, and Nash.

 

[CJCNYR]

perhaps the coaching staff isnt drinking the msg cool aide about how "great" hes playing.

his play/game is better suited for pk and not pp right now.

hes showing exactly zero offensive ability

Pretty sure he set up hags for a tap in goal who inexplicably stopped (Nash would have been crucified if roles were reversed)

Nash had a great set up for Krieder who rang what would have been the game winner off the post.

Just that 1 play alone makes this a 2-2 series.

Also has ANYONE on this team set up Nash in a spot where you said he should have buried that? It is like expected he go 1 vs the team who is generally always the first pair D.

 

[Pizza]

What he should and is doing is helping this team get further than it has in 20 years.

People just don't seem to understand there is more to this game than points. Do I expect him to score more yes I do, but just because he doesn't score does not mean he is not playing well. However people come in here saying we should buy him out, he is a waste of space, worthless, get him off this team is absolutely asinine.


Everyone is in agreement he should be scoring more and is overpaid. That is not a debate, but when people say he is playing bad because he isn't scoring is just wrong and hopefully people read the article and understand he is not a 1 dimension me first score at whatever it takes player. If you want that go root for Ovi and his countless early playoff exits.

Individual players do not win games, teams do.

People understand that perfectly. People also understand that goal scoring helps you win games. Rick Nash needs to score for him to be effective. Because he is a goal scorer. Brian Boyle does not, although it's a plus if he does.

Yes, it's teams that win games. Nash's team would LOVE IT if he could pull his head out and score a few. Trust me on that.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Yes. So could many other players scorings goals. So could Nash making any other number of plays.

Do people think that him turning some switch in his brain is going to lead to goals? He's playing the right way now. He hasn't been for a while, but he is now. No matter what I say, no matter what he says, no matter who wins what HF debate - the guy is close to a goal he's worked his whole life for, and he's playing well. Would I like him to score? Yes. Do I care if its him or anybody else? Absolutely not. Winning is first priority. Nash pleasing everyone is down the list.

Why should the burden fall on other players and not moreso on the team's leading goal scorer? Instead Nash gets praised for doing a job that is the specialty of role players, while not fulfilling his role of scoring goals.

As for him 'turning on a switch' to score goals, its not that I dont think hes trying. Its that I think hes taking a regular season mentality into the playoffs, complete with assumptions that time and space will open up and he'll be able to score pretty goals on the rush like hes accustomed to. Its just not there in the playoffs, and he needs to adjust to that.

You know why Benoit Pouliot has more goals than Rick Nash? Its not because hes a better player - far from it. But he does stop in front of the net every once in a while.