Coach Discussion: Rick Bowness - Jack Adams Finalist

[Joe Hallenback]

I think Wheeler is a locker room cancer. But, that said, if you're the coach you might be stuck with him. I think we need to move him to 3C. Sounds crazy but he's just not effective as a top 6 anymore. Center makes him more effective and reduces his ice time. Also makes our bottom six much better, opens up the top six.

Forwards:
connor - PLD - Ehlers
Scheif - Perfetti - Nino
Barron - Wheeler - Namestnikov
Apple - Lowry - Stenlund

Defense
JOMO - Demelo
Samberg - Dillon
Capo - Schmidt

Its interesting you think its Wheeler but in my mind I can think of a few player that are in the top 6 that are playing much worse then he is

 

[surixon]

I think the problem is our core forwards aren't willing or able to play physical and go to the hard areas required. They flourish during the early season but as the going gets tougher they can't or won't adapt. We've also drafted mostly soft perimeter players.

Except we've seen all of these core players perform well in the playoffs. They fully can play when the chips are down, the question is why aren't they the last couple of years.

 

[ps241]

This can go two ways.

Our team can find a way into the playoffs and play well and maybe win a round. Compete hard and put this shit to bed.

Or

They can go out with a whimper……again. If this happens I think Chevy’s hand has been called. They fully changed the coaching staff so that is not an option and no longer an excuse. Time for real change.

 

[ERYX]

This can go two ways.

Our team can find a way into the playoffs and play well and maybe win a round. Compete hard and put this shit to bed.

Or

They can go out with a whimper……again. If this happens I think Chevy’s hand has been called. They fully changed the coaching staff so that is not an option and no longer an excuse. Time for real change.

I agree and, honestly, I'm okay with either result when you put it that way.

 

[surixon]

This can go two ways.

Our team can find a way into the playoffs and play well and maybe win a round. Compete hard and put this shit to bed.

Or

They can go out with a whimper……again. If this happens I think Chevy’s hand has been called. They fully changed the coaching staff so that is not an option and no longer an excuse. Time for real change.

That is where I'm at as well. They can turn it around and show they are the team fro the first 50 games or they show they aren't a core to build around and we have to make some major roster moves this summer.

 

[DRW204]

So were all the vets involved in this poor treatment? Connor, Ehlers, Morrissey, Lowry, Helly etc. it was reported Ehlers and Laine were tight so the rest of leadership was kind to the young foreigner Ehlers but not his buddy Laine?

I have no idea?
I don't know how you infer this from my post. All I said as a teenager who probably had not spent any large time in North America, this apparent type of team or locker room or team environment was probably difficult to navigate or acclimate in. That's all.

Since Laine's departure. We've had a coach quit mid season, various players call out motivation, respect or accountability, along with Captaincy being removed from wheeler. Now we have a new coach talking more of the same, along with earlier in his tenure mentioning how young players felt like they didn't have a voice. Are these appealing traits in a team environment .

 

[digmor crusher]

hmmmm, maybe Wheeler wasn't the problem last year, I'm thinking 55 has more work ethic, attitude issues.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Maybe in laines case, Laine was the problem. Just saying. Could see him rubbing dudes the wrong way

 

[ps241]

That is where I'm at as well. They can turn it around and show they are the team fro the first 50 games or they show they aren't a core to build around and we have to make some major roster moves this summer.



Yea honestly I am hitting the wall on the reruns of this movie. For now I’m focused on if the team can close out this regular season and qualify for the playoffs.

 

[surixon]

That is where I'm at as well. They can turn it around and show they are the team fro the first 50 games or they show they aren't a core to build around and we have to make some major roster moves this summer.



Yea honestly I am hitting the wall on the reruns of this movie. For now I’m focused on if the team can close out this regular season and qualify for the playoffs.

Yeah I'm also juat concerned about this year as well but am also getting sick of the repeating patterns with this core group. No idea what the issues are.

 

[ps241]

Yeah I'm also juat concerned about this year as well but am also getting sick of the repeating patterns with this core group. No idea what the issues are.

Hopefully they get in the playoffs and play well. We don’t have to wait much longer now.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Yeah I'm also juat concerned about this year as well but am also getting sick of the repeating patterns with this core group. No idea what the issues are.

I don't even know what to say regarding Bowness' comments today regarding how he and his coaching staff needs to do better to "motivate" professional athletes.

My life has had me surrounded by friends & family who played competitive sports at the highest levels. From those that road the bench to those that were national all-stars, there are none whose motivation or work ethic I'd have questioned.

I can't begin to imagine players who have spent their lives playing competitive team sports, working hard enough to find themselves playing the game at its highest level, suddenly turning their back on the work ethic that got them where they are in the first place. It's unthinkable for this to have come up as much as once, let alone spoken by multiple players & now multiple coaches over several seasons.

 

[KingBogo]

Hopefully they get in the playoffs and play well. We don’t have to wait much longer now.

Yeah, I'm also willing to see how the season plays out. No need to jump ahead of ourselves at this point. 10 regular season games for now.

 

[surixon]

I don't even know what to say regarding Bowness' comments today regarding how he and his coaching staff needs to do better to "motivate" professional athletes.

My life has had me surrounded by friends & family who played competitive sports at the highest levels. From those that road the bench to those that were national all-stars, there are none whose motivation or work ethic I'd have questioned.

I can't begin to imagine players who have spent their lives playing competitive team sports, working hard enough to find themselves playing the game at its highest level, suddenly turning their back on the work ethic that got them where they are in the first place. It's unthinkable for this to have come up as much as once, let alone spoken by multiple players & now multiple coaches over several seasons.

I'm at a loss as to explain the comments as well. If you look at the players individually you can see the investment.

I'll take Mark Scheifele as he is likely one of the individuals Bones is referencing. Mark needed a lot of work when he was a draft eligible prospect as he was pretty raw. He invested a tonne of time, and resources in himself to turn into an elite center. If anyone asked about his work ethic and dedication three years ago they'd say it was his best attribute. Now we get lazy defensive efforts, cheating and piss poor body language.

Honestly I'm at a loss to explain it. It's like the players are motivated to invest in themselves but the investment in doing whatever it takes for the team is lacking and has been lacking with some for years.

If this group Flames out and chooses to rebuild then yeah I'd want someone new in charge of the vision and execution of it.

 

[KingBogo]

I'm at a loss as to explain the comments as well. If you look at the players individually you can see the investment.

I'll take Mark Scheifele as he is likely one of the individuals Bones is referencing. Mark needed a lot of work when he was a draft eligible prospect as he was pretty raw. He invested a tonne of time, and resources in himself to turn into an elite center. If anyone asked about his work ethic and dedication three years ago they'd say it was his best attribute. Now we get lazy defensive efforts, cheating and piss poor body language.

Honestly I'm at a loss to explain it. It's like the players are motivated to invest in themselves but the investment in doing whatever it takes for the team is lacking and has been lacking with some for years.

If this group Flames out and chooses to rebuild then yeah I'd want someone new in charge of the vision and execution of it.

My guess with Scheifele is he resents the hell out of signing an eight year deal at now well below market value to spend his career in Winnipeg. He no doubt has wanted out for at least a couple years now, and if he had to do it again he would have followed the Trouba and PLD route.

 

[surixon]

My guess with Scheifele is he resents the hell out of signing an eight year deal at now well below market value to spend his career in Winnipeg. He no doubt has wanted out for at least a couple years now, and if he had to do it again he would have followed the Trouba and PLD route.

Oh I've heard chatter that he was pissed about some of the other younger players making more then him. Can't substantiate it but it seems the issues with him started around the time of the Conner and Laine deals.

Oh I'm sure he would have bridged if he could do it again. But he's handled his disappointment in the worst way possible. He wasn't the only under paid center, Mackinnon and Barkov where as well and they continued to play hard, kept their heads down and are now making crazy money. Mark has likely cost himself millions with his play and attitude the last number of years.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Look at today's GDT @sipowicz posted it there.


Yup i'm going to just start calling him Rocky .

Nikky the Knuckle Chucker
Nite Nite Nikky
Nikky Boom Boom Ehlers

 

[KingBogo]

Oh I've heard chatter that he was pissed about some of the other younger players making more then him. Can't substantiate it but it seems the issues with him started around the time of the Conner and Laine deals.

Oh I'm sure he would have bridged if he could do it again. But he's handled his disappointment in the worst way possible. He wasn't the only under paid center, Mackinnon and Barkov where as well and they continued to play hard, kept their heads down and are now making crazy money. Mark has likely cost himself millions with his play and attitude the last number of years.

But they played in Florida and Colorado not Winnipeg and very likely where they liked being, and they came due at a much better age to cash in. Mark will get paid as a PPG center eventually, but I think it will eventual come out that he has been asking to be traded for years and he is super pissed off that he hasn't been.

 

[ecolad]

Oh I've heard chatter that he was pissed about some of the other younger players making more then him. Can't substantiate it but it seems the issues with him started around the time of the Conner and Laine deals.

Oh I'm sure he would have bridged if he could do it again. But he's handled his disappointment in the worst way possible. He wasn't the only under paid center, Mackinnon and Barkov where as well and they continued to play hard, kept their heads down and are now making crazy money. Mark has likely cost himself millions with his play and attitude the last number of years.

Spot on. If this narrative has legs, it tends only to reinforce a character deficiency.

Frankly, what strikes me the most about Scheif is his apparent lack of competitive drive and intensity. You can see this constantly in his on ice play itself but he also shows this in the way he talks about hockey. Just prior to the playoff series with the Flames several years ago, he was asked what he and the team were doing to prepare for an expected tough physical series. His response was "to go out on the ice and have fun".

 

[WolfHouse]

Oh I've heard chatter that he was pissed about some of the other younger players making more then him. Can't substantiate it but it seems the issues with him started around the time of the Conner and Laine deals.

Oh I'm sure he would have bridged if he could do it again. But he's handled his disappointment in the worst way possible. He wasn't the only under paid center, Mackinnon and Barkov where as well and they continued to play hard, kept their heads down and are now making crazy money. Mark has likely cost himself millions with his play and attitude the last number of years.

He shouldn't have been... Ehlers deserves more and doesn't get the playing time to show it... Wheeler got a loyalty contract if I've ever seen one - Scheif could have easily got $10-11 mill for 6-7 years from TNSE if he didn't turn into a total douchebag after 2019 off-season

That being said, I can see why Scheif turned... he had signed a loyalty contract and was happily the face of the franchise... then we lost or let half the team walk - Buff, Trouba, Myers, Chiarot, Tanev... and replaced them with essentially nothing. Gabriel Bourque???

I joke about the PLD party in Montreal... but this team could just as easily gone off the rails by hearing that Meier had nixed a trade to the Jets - Scheif could just be 'why risk getting hurt'

 

[Gabe Kupari]

If 55 is pissed cuz his millions per year isn't enough then f*** him. I doubt that's a reason tho. If it is, dude needs a reality check. 55 was at his best when Dubois was playing well but he checked out a while ago so now mark is the only true top 6 center we have, had he missed a game? Dude carried us at times this year. KC is the bigger concern. Had Mad chemistry with Dubois last year, none this year.

 

[Jack7222]

But they played in Florida and Colorado not Winnipeg and very likely where they liked being, and they came due at a much better age to cash in. Mark will get paid as a PPG center eventually, but I think it will eventual come out that he has been asking to be traded for years and he is super pissed off that he hasn't been.

This would probably explain a lot tbh

 

[WolfHouse]

Bowness Three Keys to Success in December - from the Hockey Writers

3 Keys to Jets Success in December

1. Manage Helle's workload
- he's done that except Rittich gonna Rittich
2. Monitor Scheif-Wheeler
- well that didn't work out at all - 'like tequila' haha
3. Keep bottom six scoring
- they highlight AJF and Eyssimont...

 

[Crocket]

Its interesting you think its Wheeler but in my mind I can think of a few player that are in the top 6 that are playing much worse then he is

Not a matter of playing worse , although he's brutal. His bad attitude and unlikable character make him a no go.

 

[surixon]

But they played in Florida and Colorado not Winnipeg and very likely where they liked being, and they came due at a much better age to cash in. Mark will get paid as a PPG center eventually, but I think it will eventual come out that he has been asking to be traded for years and he is super pissed off that he hasn't been.

He seemed to want to be here early on though, contually talked about wanting to be a career player and he was the one who wanted max term length. He was generally happy here for a while or so it seemed anyways. At some point he seemed to get a stick up his ass though.