Prospect Info: Red Wings #1 prospect

[lilidk]

Who is Red Wings #1 prospect

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[Konnan511]

Seider is still the #1 for me with Raymond a very close 2nd.

 

[Henkka]

Should be Raymond.

Voted for Seider, because I like him so damn much.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Raymond (elite first line player)
Zadina (first line scoring winger)
Seider (#2/#3 defenseman)
Veleno (middle six center)
Rasmussen (middle six forward)
McIsaac (#3/#4 defenseman)
Berggren (second line winger)
Wallinder (dark horse top pairing defenseman)
Johansson (middle pairing defenseman)
Mastrosimone (middle six winger)

Raymond by a country mile though.

Also, is Zadina really a prospect at this point? Idk.

 

[Christien]

Raymond is the best player this team has drafted in many years, so him.

 

[Henkka]

Raymond is the best player this team has drafted in many years, so him.

For last 21 years.

 

[SirloinUB]

I think it’s pretty close between Raymond and Seider

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

Zadina and Rasmussen are pros to me at this point, both have played enough NHL games.

Our top 10 imo (leaving goalies out):

1. Raymond
2. Seider
3. Veleno

4. Wallinder
5. Johansson
6. Berggren
7. McIsaac
8. Niederbach
9. Tuomisto
10. Mastrosimone/Soderblom

Honorable Mentions: Hanas, Viro, Sebrango, Kivenmaki, Setkov, etc.

To me, the top three guys are pretty certain NHLers barring some pretty crazy derailment in their development.

I think 4-9ish are all solid B prospects, reasonable chance to be NHL guys with top 6F/top 4D potential.

Our biggest needs, imo, would be a real blue-chip LHD or C prospect, which we can hopefully add with next year's 1st.

 

[Go Wings]

I am going to say Seider but the margin between him and Raymond is paper thin.

 

[Go Wings]

Who is Red Wings #1 prospect

Thanks for doing this I think we should do voting for the top 10.

 

[ArmChairGM89]

I voted zadina. If Raymond has higher upside it’s only slightly higher. And the proven success zadina had in his short stint last year outweighs that to me.

Being able to see Raymond in a top six role this year could easily change my mind. But I think zadina is a 30g 40A guy and I haven’t seen enough of Raymond to tell me he’s more than that. So hard to judge off 6-12 min on the fourth line of a men’s team.

seider is going to be a stalwart on the blue line. But I don’t see a ton of offense there. I think I need more offense to put a dman above those two.

 

[Frk It]

I honestly have no clue who is going to become the best player between Zadina, Seider, or Raymond.

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

Currently it is Seider for me, but I expect Raymond to make a jump into that spot. I'm not going to just give Raymond that #1 title after the season Seider just had.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I honestly have no clue who is going to become the best player between Zadina, Seider, or Raymond.

I feel similar, so I lean for the grand slam potential. Personally I give that to Raymond, but that certainly carries more risk.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

To me it's still Seider.

Potential #1 defenseman with a high likelihood of achieving that status and playing 25+ minutes a night.

Raymond may have been a higher selection, but we know for sure Seider will play in the NHL. We still don't know if Raymond will make it yet. And if he makes it we still don't know if it will be as a legit first line winger or as a complimentary second line winger.

 

[HisNoodliness]

My prospect rankings:
1. Raymond- I think his upside is tremendous with every skill you could hope for and big game ability. 1-2 years from playing with the Wings. Projection: top line W with star potential
2. Zadina- absolutely elite shot and a complete offensive toolkit. He's already an NHL player and he's right there with Raymond for me whom I rate higher just because I see a little more potential but less certainty. Projection: top line W with star potential
3. Seider- big man that can skate and defend well. Had a great year in GR and looks NHL ready. Lacks the offense to be a true #1. Projection: #2D
4. Veleno- great skater and great passer. Defensively capable and about 1 year from NHL ready. Projection: middle 6 C
5. Rasmussen- big man that's ready for the show. Lacks offensive upside but can man the net front while being a defensively responsible at 5 on 5. Projection: bottom 6C
6. Berggren- highly skilled winger. Projection: middle 6 W
7. Wallinder- big D that skates really well. Game is raw with lots of potential. Projection: second pairing D
8. Johansson- smaller smooth skating D that's progressing nicely. Projection: second pairing D
9. Niederbach- potentially top 6 forward with a skilled, creative game. Projection: middle 6 F
10. Tuomisto- big D with a big shot and lots of offensive upside. Projection: 3rd pair PP QB
11. McIsaac- all around D that just hasn't taken that next step. Still solid. Protection: 3rd pair.
We're still searching for a top pairing D and star center. I think our pool is rounding out nicely and we'll start to have an interesting team soon.

 

[Hen Kolland]

We still don't know if Raymond will make it yet.

Don't we though? If you are going to make an argument that we don't know if Raymond will be in the NHL, you can't say that we know that Seider will play in the NHL because neither have done it.

And just on a hunch, but if we had drafted Marco Rossi I'm sure you'd have no problem saying that he would make it in the NHL.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Don't we though? If you are going to make an argument that we don't know if Raymond will be in the NHL, you can't say that we know that Seider will play in the NHL because neither have done it.

And just on a hunch, but if we had drafted Marco Rossi I'm sure you'd have no problem saying that he would make it in the NHL.

There's a chance ANY prospect can bust. Some have a higher chance of this than others.

Seider is a prospect that has a very low probability of being a bust. If the NHL were going to start tomorrow I'd be confident Seider would be on the roster, and with the state of our defense I'm confident he'd be top 2 on the team. If we had played a full 82 games you'd have seen Seider given a 9 game call up as well. So yes. I think Seider will make it Just because he has played exactly as many NHL games as Raymond right now doesn't mean he and Raymond have the same chances of playing.

What we know about Raymond is this; he's super skilled but a bit undersized and needs to add strength. Can he do it? Probably. Will he game translate over? Maybe. The guy was literally drafted 2 days ago and he's only just started his D+1 year.

And what the f*** does me liking Marco Rossi have to do with any of this? Your posts come off a lot more as attacks rather than constructive discussions. You should really follow the Will Wheaton rule, dude.

 

[Athana see you later]

I voted Raymond. If he hits he’ll be a first line play driver at both ends of the ice.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

Since there isn’t a Berggren thread. He has 8 points now in 5 SHL games. has an assist after the 1st today

 

[jkutswings]

There's going to be a huge variety of answers, mostly due to a complete lack of context or clarity in the question.

(I'm not hating on the OP. I like the concept of the thread, but "#1 prospect" is a very vague notion.)

Who is currently most talented?
Most NHL ready?
Has the highest ceiling?
Will eventually have the best career?

These are all different questions with potentially different answers.

Personally, I think Raymond is the most electric with the highest ceiling. But taking into account likelihood of reaching said potential, I might lean towards Seider, if only for another season.

Once a player is regularly in the NHL lineup, I don't consider them a prospect anymore, so I'd put Zadina in that category.

 

[Ezekial]

Since there isn’t a Berggren thread. He has 8 points now in 5 SHL games. has an assist after the 1st today

You just gotta find it and resurrect it. But that's awesome, thanks for the update.

 

[Hen Kolland]

There's a chance ANY prospect can bust. Some have a higher chance of this than others.

Seider is a prospect that has a very low probability of being a bust. If the NHL were going to start tomorrow I'd be confident Seider would be on the roster, and with the state of our defense I'm confident he'd be top 2 on the team. If we had played a full 82 games you'd have seen Seider given a 9 game call up as well. So yes. I think Seider will make it Just because he has played exactly as many NHL games as Raymond right now doesn't mean he and Raymond have the same chances of playing.

What we know about Raymond is this; he's super skilled but a bit undersized and needs to add strength. Can he do it? Probably. Will he game translate over? Maybe. The guy was literally drafted 2 days ago and he's only just started his D+1 year.

And what the f*** does me liking Marco Rossi have to do with any of this? Your posts come off a lot more as attacks rather than constructive discussions. You should really follow the Will Wheaton rule, dude.

What does you liking Marco Rossi have to do with this? If we had drafted Marco Rossi, you would be talking about how he is NHL ready, despite being drafted 2 days ago. I feel reasonable in saying this based on your opinion on Rossi all throughout the draft process. While physical development is the big factor in Raymond's timeline, he added like 10-15 pounds to his frame during the offseason (sitting close to Rossi's listed draft weight), and keep in mind he's still playing at a higher competition level than most every top prospect (in this draft) ever has.

I have no problem with your placing of Seider above Raymond if that's the way you lean in terms of ranking them. Just seemed really weird to talk about Raymond's NHL probability the way you did. That's the kind of phrasing you use for a long shot mid round pick, not someone you realistically could make a case for as a lottery caliber talent.

 

[ricky0034]

Raymond by a clear but not yet giant margin for me at this point

much higher upside than Seider/Zadina but also a lot less clear at this point what he'll be

but ultimately if I hypothetically only had Raymond and had the opportunity to trade him for one of those other two I wouldn't do it(or even think about it for very long) which makes the choice here pretty clear for me

 

[Tetsuo]

Prospect Rankings as of Draft Day +1:

1. Seider. I can't ignore the season he just had. I think the world of him of how he played in the AHL last year and I'm excited to see him play more meaningful hockey in the SHL (than the DEL). I think he has a ton of potential to be a high-end top 2 Defensmen for a long, long time.
2. Raymond. The margin is thin here, as some have said. He's the most talented player in the system that we've had in easily 20 years, maybe more. He's a dynamic offensive player who can drive the play from the Wing and QB a PP unit. The best part, he plays a 200 ft game! He's at least a season away, but the potential for a top line Wing is real with him.
3. Zadina. Practically an NHLer at this point, but I still want to see him settle into the lineup a bit more before I remove him from this list. He's another guy who is a dual threat, though he is more of a trigger man than Raymond. He also plays a more complete game than a traditional sniper. Zadina needs to get a half step quicker still, but he already looked dangerous in the NHL.
4. Rasmussen. Big fella needs to start getting more respect around here. He's clearly the best Center prospect in the org, regardless of how we felt about drafting him. I think he's another guy who is basically an NHLer, but until he settles into that role I will keep him in this list (I'm not counting his D+2 year for what I think is obvious reasons). He's gonna be really hard to play against for teams, and I think he'll help our PP out quite a bit too. I think he's a 3C with some 2C upside.
5. Veleno. Solid toolkit to be a great depth Center. Good vision and speed, with excellent defense too. I think he's going to be an elite PKer but he has some work to do if he's to become a bona fide top 6C. Another 3C with 2C upside type, though with more 5v5 potential than Ras.
6. Svechnikov. I'm gonna give the nod to Geno for the time being, even though it's crazy to me he still isn't an NHLer yet. He should be playing this season, as he brings a nice package of goal scoring and physicality that should make him a decent middle 6 Winger. He's a borderline bust, so I might be out to lunch here, but I'm a big believer in him still. This is his make it or break it season.
7. Wallinder. I think he's pretty much automatically our best D prospect outside of Seider, given his massive potential and that he should have been a 1st rounder. He's huge and skates at a high end level, not just among big players, but among all players. He has a lot of offensive upside but has a ton of work to do to round out his game.
8. Johansson. Definitely looking like a great pick already, he's another smooth skating Defensmen with offensive upside. Not as big as Wallinder but he's much more polished. I would rank him higher but I think he has less upside to be a top 2D, though it's still there for him too. Almost a coinflip between the two.
9. Berggren. He's a guy who would be much higher if he could stay healthy. He's got a lethal offensive game and has legit top 6 Winger upside.
10. Niederbach. Once I started looking into him, he became one of my faves of this draft. He's super raw but he sees the ice very well. Niederbach needs to gain speed and strength in spades, but if everything pans out for him he's going to be an offensive spark plug top 6 C. I love this pick.
11. Lindstrom. I've long been a fan of his, he has a real steady presence on the back end. Not sure how much offense is there, but I think he plays for awhile at the NHL level as a shutdown bottom 4 RD. Has underrated hockey IQ.
12. Tuomisto. Super raw, but he's another massive Defensemen with offensive upside. Love having another project with huge upside in our system.
13. McIsaac. Another guy who could be higher if he has a bounce back year. I don't think he has much top 2 upside, but I think he could be another solid bottom 4 Defensemen who plays with an edge.

Honorable Mentions: Mastrosimone, Soderblom, Kivenmaki by virtue of having some exciting skill but still being far off from the NHL. If you take away the 3 likely NHLers (Zadina, Ras and Geno) insert those three in order at the end of this ranking and bump everyone in front of them up accordingly.

Shoutouts out to: Smith, Pearson, Cholowski for being currently fringe NHL guys with bottom 6/bottom 2 upside.

Yesterday was a good day for our pipeline to say the least.

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Don't we though? If you are going to make an argument that we don't know if Raymond will be in the NHL, you can't say that we know that Seider will play in the NHL because neither have done it.

And just on a hunch, but if we had drafted Marco Rossi I'm sure you'd have no problem saying that he would make it in the NHL.

I agree. Saying that Raymond has a decent chance of not making the NHL is strange to me. Sure, anything could happen but that doesn't mean it will. Saying that Raymond is a boom/bust pick is strange to me, given all of his positive attributes. He has a game tailor made to be a high-end offensive initiator from the Wing in today's NHL for years to come. I think his floor is an empty calories 5v5 scorer who QBs a 2nd PP unit. And that's if he doesn't improve much over the next few years. We've already seen improvement this year from him at the SHL level, so to think his development has a 50% chance of stalling out completely is kinda insane to me. It's a really weird narrative, given that, other than Lafrienere, that could happen to literally every other prospect. Marco Rossi included.