Recent lottery rule amendments and implication for Habs

[RealityHurts]

Hey guys, I saw that there were periodically lots of discussions on this subject but never any clear response.

Here is an excerpt of the NHL's most recent draft lottery changes effective as of 2022.

I had noticed that there were a lot of deliberations as to what 'winning the lottery' meant: does it purely involve moving up from their initial draft spot post lottery or simply winning one of the draws?

I'm sure lots of us have been open to a rebuild. However, given that we started off with Suzuki and Caufield, I'm sure many expect the rebuild to be one that is shorter than the usual 4-5 years. In the event that it is not and it takes us a while from getting out of the basement, though, I'd assume we'd want to know whether the team has a chance at 2 more 1st overalls or not (especially if any of them bust)

Have we received any official confirmation yet? If not, I thought I'd create a poll to assess what the general comprehension of the rule changes are.

Sorry if this had been posted before. I try to be active on the forums, but am not realistically there every day without prompt

Click to read more...

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

We finished last so not a lottery win

 

[Vachon23]

I mean even if last year count, if we win the lottery next season we won't be in the mix to win the lottery after.

 

[RealityBytes]

We finished last so not a lottery win

We did win the lottery, so it is a lottery win.

It is obvious, but don't get the past and present mixed up. In the past, before the lottery, the last place team of the previous year received the first pick.

However, now with the lottery in place, all the last place team from the previous year is guaranteed/entitled to is the fourth pick, after the lottery picks, plus the best odds in the lottery. There is no more entitlement that the last place team is to have first pick anymore.

 

[Redux91]

We did win the lottery, so it is a lottery win.

Yeah the poll question is... lol

 

[RealityHurts]

Yeah the poll question is... lol

You can propose another formulation and I'd be happy to change it aha. The goal of this thread is to be pedantic anyway

I mean even if last year count, if we win the lottery next season we won't be in the mix to win the lottery after.

We definitely would imo. Teams don't progress that quick. Some salaries still have to be shed because they're not optimized (eg. Armia) and rookies will take time to adjust to the NHL level.

Kind of like how Detroit, Ottawa and NJD are taking a while to fully step out of the basement. Even if we were 8th to last, we'd still be in line for the lottery

 

[Vachon23]

We definitely would imo. Teams don't progress that quick. Some salaries still have to be shed because they're not optimized (eg. Armia) and rookies will take time to adjust to the NHL level.

Kind of like how Detroit, Ottawa and NJD are taking a while to fully step out of the basement. Even if we were 8th to last, we'd still be in line for the lottery

But if you win the lottery this year, you're getting a player that will have an impact right away. Add that to Suzuki/Caufield who should be impact player next year, Slafkovsky/Dach if there development is going well and you don't have a bottom 5 team (not saying it's a team that will make the playoff though)

 

[Frankenheimer]

 

[Gillings]

Guys, when the lottery numbers were called for the 1st overall pick they were THE MONTREAL CANADIENS NUMBERS.

In order for us to have won by default than a team outside of the top ten would have had to have won the 1st place lottery draw..

End of discussion…

 

[jellybeans]

So say we win the lottery next summer and the year after we finish last again what happens where do we pick.I'm guessing we could still pick first if both lotttery winners would be outside the top 10

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Guys, when the lottery numbers were called for the 1st overall pick they were THE MONTREAL CANADIENS NUMBERS.

In order for us to have won by default than a team outside of the top ten would have had to have won the 1st place lottery draw..

End of discussion…

Im not even sure what you are saying, but yet you seem pretty sure of yourself.

 

[MD thaivuN]

The lottery win limit rule only applies to teams that moved up. I know it's confusing because that rule is only explained properly in a media press release that is super hard to find (because few of the media outlets that cite that explanation actually bother linking the source) and I'm not going to bother finding it again

 

[LaP]

I mean even if last year count, if we win the lottery next season we won't be in the mix to win the lottery after.

If we win this season we wont need to win after.

 

[Legend123]

Guys, when the lottery numbers were called for the 1st overall pick they were THE MONTREAL CANADIENS NUMBERS.

In order for us to have won by default than a team outside of the top ten would have had to have won the 1st place lottery draw..

End of discussion…

What is being said here???

 

[Canadienna]

https://media.nhl.com/public/news/14767

This release about the draft changes is clear in it's wording.

"No single team will be able to advance in the Draft order by reason of winning a Lottery Draw more than two (2) times in any five (5) year period. This limitation will not affect a Club’s ability to retain its presumptive Draft position in any Draft Lottery"

Note the "advance in the draft order".

I went down this road before. I originally thought like most, that yes we indeed did use one of our lottery wins in a 5 year span.

I don't know if that's true though. This document and release indicate it was required you "advance in the draft order".

There's no sense in thinking that they put that in for no reason. Likely for this exact reason. It makes sense.

I hope the Habs brass have a lawyer checking this out in full.

 

[Canadienna]

People getting hung up on whether it's a lottery win. I think it is, but that doesn't mean we use up one of our two potential wins.

See post above.

 

[HostileCapSpace]

Look at the video, we absolutely won the draft lottery. Around the 12-minute mark:

 

[Canadienna]

Guys, when the lottery numbers were called for the 1st overall pick they were THE MONTREAL CANADIENS NUMBERS.

In order for us to have won by default than a team outside of the top ten would have had to have won the 1st place lottery draw..

End of discussion…

It's not the end of the discussion as to whether we can win two more lotteries in a 5 year span.

Look at the video, we absolutely won the draft lottery. around 12-minute mark:

It's not about whether we won the draft lotto.

See my post above.

 

[Gillings]

It's not the end of the discussion as to whether we can win two more lotteries in a 5 year span.



It's not about whether we won the draft lotto.

See my post above.

It is the end of discussion when it comes to if we can win 2 more times within a 5 year span.. next year if we win the lottery then we won’t be able to win for another 5 years.

We won the lottery last year. We did not win because we were last place. The lottery balls were Montreal’s numbers. We had the highest percentage and we won.

 

[Canadienna]

It is the end of discussion when it comes to if we can win 2 more times within a 5 year span.. next year if we win the lottery then we won’t be able to win for another 5 years.

We won the lottery last year. We did not win because we were last place. The lottery balls were Montreal’s numbers. We had the highest percentage and we won.

None of that addresses the post I was indicating.

How do you respond to the wording of "advance in the draft order"?

Again this is all laid out in post 15 if you haven't seen it.

 

[Gillings]

to reiterate:

When the NHL pulled the lottery balls for first place..

MONTREAL WON.

In order for Montreal to have won solely because they were last place a team outside of the top eleven would have had to have had there balls pulled for the first place draw..

 

[jrom]

We can win the lottery 5 years in a row but it can only improve our draft position twice in those 5 years.

So we won last year but didn’t improve. We could win it the next 2 years (2023 and 2024 draft) and if we advance each time then for the next 3 years we could still win the lottery but we wouldn’t change draft position.

 

[Canadienna]

We can win the lottery 5 years in a row but it can only improve our draft position twice in those 5 years.

So we won last year but didn’t improve. We could win it the next 2 years (2023 and 2024 draft) and if we advance each time then for the next 3 years we could still win the lottery but we wouldn’t change draft position.

That's my read as well, but @gillings seems super confident and condescending so he must be right.

 

[Durvann]

View attachment 589651

Nice Rabbird

 

[lamp9post]

https://media.nhl.com/public/news/14767

This release about the draft changes is clear in it's wording.

"No single team will be able to advance in the Draft order by reason of winning a Lottery Draw more than two (2) times in any five (5) year period. This limitation will not affect a Club’s ability to retain its presumptive Draft position in any Draft Lottery"

Note the "advance in the draft order".

I went down this road before. I originally thought like most, that yes we indeed did use one of our lottery wins in a 5 year span.

I don't know if that's true though. This document and release indicate it was required you "advance in the draft order".

There's no sense in thinking that they put that in for no reason. Likely for this exact reason. It makes sense.

I hope the Habs brass have a lawyer checking this out in full.

I would really like this explained by a journalist or someone representing the league for clarity, as it does seem open to interpretation. You could argue that we DID move up in the draft to the first overall spot. If we didn't win, we'd likely be drafting third. Its not like we had the number spot before the draft, we just had the best odds to win it.