Re-tooling For One More Run With This Core

[Trapper]

Thats because both Alberta teams managed to accomplished what the Leafs failed to do against the Habs and the CBJ during the previous 2 seasons, while the apologist are giving the same excuse we heard during the 2nd Boston series; "Leafs would have advanced had they faced any other team" "BOS just swept Carolina in the ECF while the Leafs took 7 games to beat" "Leafs would have demolished both the Isles and the Canes given the playoff results."

Whether the Leafs has gotten a favourable matchup or a tought one, the results is always the same so you cant downplay what the 2 Alberta teams has done because that was what we expected the Leafs would do against CBJ and MTL given the Leafs performaces against the SC runner up 3 years ago. Now we are back to where we were in summer of 2019, trying to pump the Leafs tire for hanging around with a SC caliber team.

This isn’t the first time McDavid/Draisaitl have been to the 2nd round either. They also beat the Ducks in 16/17. The Oilers team just sucked beyond these 2 for a few years.
We have yet to win 1 with this team/core.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

This will fall on deaf ears here because hysterical leaf fans get hysterical.

I share this opinion and it seems to be the same opinion from most hockey analysts. They are right there. They played playoff style hockey and just lost by 1 goal to an equal team.

I'm proud of the them. It's like they are growing up in front of us.

Running out of track on the "growing up" road - 2 of them can walk in a couple years. 1 more playoff dissapointment and we will be on the "do we trade before the NMC kicks in?" part of the road.

If Dubas stays, let's hope he watches teams that actually win playoff rounds and learns from it. Not to many of them have power plays that operate at 6% in the playoffs, or rely on guys like Mik/Kerfoot to be impact players.

Worst part about the "wait one more year" strat is that it won't be long until some of our rivals are good again. Everyone else keeps getting better around us.

What else do you call a 115 point team that lost by one goal in game 7 to a team that has a good chance of threepeating? If we win a round against a lesser team before losing to Tampa the exact same way does that mean we were better as a team? No obviously not. Why are you and countless others unable to see this? Like it's really not that difficult.

I keep seeing this "we're a 115 points team!" comment and it feels like it should go without saying that this was a strange year where the worst team in the Eastern playoffs was able to reach 100pts because the bottom half of the East was very, very bad.

Not to mention that I'm not dreaming about the day we win the President's Trophy. 115 points is neat, but we still lost. We're still playoff losers. What are we even trying to accomplish if we're putting up banners for finishing 4th in the regular season? Lame.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

This isn’t the first time McDavid/Draisaitl have been to the 2nd round either. They also beat the Ducks in 16/17. The Oilers team just sucked beyond these 2 for a few years.
We have yet to win 1 with this team/core.

The fact that we are comparing ourselves to one of the worst run orgs in hockey (and coming up below them) is even worse. We've actually had less success than McDavid's Oilers lol. Insane to consider.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Thats because both Alberta teams managed to accomplished what the Leafs failed to do against the Habs and the CBJ during the previous 2 seasons, while the apologist are giving the same excuse we heard during the 2nd Boston series; "Leafs would have advanced had they faced any other team" "BOS just swept Carolina in the ECF while the Leafs took 7 games to beat" "Leafs would have demolished both the Isles and the Canes given the playoff results."

Whether the Leafs has gotten a favourable matchup or a tought one, the results is always the same so you cant downplay what the 2 Alberta teams has done because that was what we expected the Leafs would do against CBJ and MTL given the Leafs performaces against the SC runner up 3 years ago. Now we are back to where we were in summer of 2019, trying to pump the Leafs tire for hanging around with a SC caliber team.

The Bruins were not trying to threepeat and we had a lot of worrying signs in that series. This is the first time in the playoffs where all of the core players performed up to expectations. At the end of the day, you have a 115 point team that played a good series and could have won against an elite, elite team with just a little bit more luck. No one in the core is a pending UFA so you have no immediate pressure to trade any of them. At the same time you have some prospects knocking on the door who can be difference makers. Why panic? You still have one more year to see if the core gets over the hump before there is any real pressure to overhaul the roster.

 

[steam whistle]

If we played those teams exactly how we played Tampa the series would have been over way before game 7.

what about Habs series G7 last season?

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

The Bruins were not trying to threepeat and we had a lot of worrying signs in that series. This is the first time in the playoffs where all of the core players performed up to expectations. At the end of the day, you have a 115 point team that played a good series and could have won against an elite, elite team with just a little bit more luck. No one in the core is a pending UFA so you have no immediate pressure to trade any of them. At the same time you have some prospects knocking on the door who can be difference makers. Why panic? You still have one more year to see if the core gets over the hump before there is any real pressure to overhaul the roster.

It's not panic. We haven't won a series in 19 years and you are telling us that you are happy with the team because if had a meaningless decent regular season. Meanwhile, we haven't shown we can win an elimination game, let alone make a deep run.

I, for one, would rather not waste another year of AM's career. But hey, maybe we will hit 120pts next year and still lose in R1 to Tampa/Carolina/Fla and we can read more of your posts about what a great accomplishment it is.

I would argue we should have made a change after losing back to back series against Montreal and Columbus, but now they have the nice out of losing to TBay, and fans like yourself will completely ignore the past because we won a bunch of games against Montreal and NJ during the regular season.

 

[Maplebeasts]

The fact that we are comparing ourselves to one of the worst run orgs in hockey (and coming up below them) is even worse. We've actually had less success than McDavid's Oilers lol. Insane to consider.

At the end of the day individual series wins don't matter; Cup wins do and pretending the Oilers and Flames are closer than we are to being a cup winner because they barely beat weak playoff teams is wrong.

 

[steam whistle]

Still no point comparing the Leafs to the Flames or Oilers. Them also being based in Canadian cities has nothing to do with us.

Keep searching for the EXCUSES for the playoffs early exit please, have fun.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

At the end of the day individual series wins don't matter; Cup wins do and pretending the Oilers and Flames are closer than we are to being a cup winner because they barely beat weak playoff teams is wrong.

They are literally still in the Cup hunt. Just because you don't think they can win doesn't mean they won't find magic.

I bet their fans will enjoy 1 or 2 more series of hockey, though. Seems like it would be a lot better than posting on a message board about how we were the great we were to accumulate 115 reg. season points.

 

[rocketman588]

My god. Edmonton needed 7 games to beat a Doughty-less Kings team and Calgary played the second worst team to make the playoffs in the league this year and were one goal from elimination. Giving either credit for eeking out series wins by the skin of their teeth against such mediocre teams while punishing the Leafs for a close game 7 loss to an actual power house is about as disingenuous as it gets.

We f***ing lost to the Habs and Columbus the last two years

Also we love to give Dubas the "goalie'd" excuse for his loses. Calgary was actually being goalie'd

If I'm Dubas, I call Gio and Spezza into my office and offer them the same deal verbally:

Take some time to collect yourselves over the summer. I have 2 reserved spots for you on my roster going into training camp. If at any point you decide you want to go at it again, call me and we will work out a deal instantly. I won't guarantee you 82 games, but you will both be in the playoff roster. We should have won a lot more this year, and we can win with this team going forward. An open invitation to Training Camp regardless of whether you have a contract or not. Think about it, call me and we will get it done. We want both of you back here.

Thank you.


As for the roster:

I do all that I can to move Kerfoot and Mrazek out.

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Mikheyev - Tavares - Nylander
Robertson - Kampf - Kase
Blackwell - Spezza - Simmonds
Clifford - Abruzzese - Engvall

Rielly - Sandin
Muzzin - Brodie
Gio - Lilly
Holl

Kallgren
Campbell

If Campbell would accept $4m and Gio could also come in at under $4m, even with slight pay raises to Lilly and Sandin, it would work. Especially with the cap guy working some magic all year long.

Sandin and Liljigren are looking at marginal raises. Sandin because he missed nearly the whole season and Lilly was relegated to the press box during the playoffs. However, I think they're both really good value.

Gio will tell him to f*** off on the spot that's an idiotic idea

 

[rocketman588]

Still no point comparing the Leafs to the Flames or Oilers. Them also being based in Canadian cities has nothing to do with us.

There was one home team that lost in game 7 in the first round.

Care to guess who it was?

 

[The Masters]

Thought Kyper had good analysis this morning in hour 3 of morning show

need better D, need better bottom 6, need more 2-way guys. Kyle was chasing last few years with dealing all those picks

 

[Sypher04]

This isn’t the first time McDavid/Draisaitl have been to the 2nd round either. They also beat the Ducks in 16/17. The Oilers team just sucked beyond these 2 for a few years.
We have yet to win 1 with this team/core.

We’ve had our gaffs, no doubt. But the Oilers have nothing on us. They won their series, but their opponent was nowhere remotely close to the one we played. I’m very confident in saying the Leafs are a better team than the Oilers - in fact, I think it’s entirely arguable that the Oilers are not a playoff team in the Atlantic division at all

 

[rocketman588]

People forget that CBJ was one point behind the Leafs and they were in a battle for the WC spots, and that’s the reason they faced each other in the play in , just to make the playoffs.

So our excuse for the cbj series is now that dubas did such a bad job building a roster that his team was one point away from 9th?

"we didn't choke that one away"we just weren't good. If that's the case he should have been fired on the spot.

 

[Nineteen67]

Yeah last year we choked no doubt. This year was definitely not a choke and the best series this core has played by far. The rational thing to do with a 115 point team that almost beat the back to back cup champs is to try one more time then ship the core out if they lose early again next year. By that time half of the core is 1 year away from UFA so panic would actually be warranted by then. If you disassemble this team now you better be prepared to not compete for the cup again for a while.

They waste games with undisciplined play every year so it might be OK change things up.
The cap is hindering them from making the moves they want to make. Why not free up cap space try to make the team better.
They’ve lost in the first round 4 times and missed the round of 16 once.

 

[Rob Brown]

There was one home team that lost in game 7 in the first round.

Care to guess who it was?

I'm not an idiot, but appreciate your sass. My point was that it doesn't matter that Calgary and Edmonton moved on - them being Canadian means nothing.

Keep searching for the EXCUSES for the playoffs early exit please, have fun.

How is what I said an excuse? I'm saying it doesn't matter that we were the only Canadian team bounced in the first round, lol. It's sad and upsetting either way, doesn't have to be a Canadian thing.

 

[Nineteen67]

So our excuse for the cbj series is now that dubas did such a bad job building a roster that his team was one point away from 9th?

"we didn't choke that one away"we just weren't good. If that's the case he should have been fired on the spot.

They weren’t very good that year

 

[rocketman588]

At the end of the day individual series wins don't matter; Cup wins do and pretending the Oilers and Flames are closer than we are to being a cup winner because they barely beat weak playoff teams is wrong.

The flames are a very well built team and if the avs didn't exist they would be my favorite for the cup.

The winner of that series is in the conference finals by the way. So yeah at least one will be a cup contender this year

 

[Trapper]

We’ve had our gaffs, no doubt. But the Oilers have nothing on us. They won their series, but their opponent was nowhere remotely close to the one we played. I’m very confident in saying the Leafs are a better team than the Oilers - in fact, I think it’s entirely debatable that the Oilers are not a playoff team in the Atlantic division at all

That’s the problem with the comparison though. People are saying the Oilers beat a weak team but they are a weak team compared to us. So it’s all relevant. We didn’t beat Montreal, we didn’t beat Columbus.
The Oilers for whatever they are, did it. That’s the part people are missing. They did it. 6 times and we didn’t.

 

[Maplebeasts]

It's not panic. We haven't won a series in 19 years and you are telling us that you are happy with the team because if had a meaningless decent regular season. Meanwhile, we haven't shown we can win an elimination game, let alone make a deep run.

I, for one, would rather not waste another year of AM's career. But hey, maybe we will hit 120pts next year and still lose in R1 to Tampa/Carolina/Fla and we can read more of your posts about what a great accomplishment it is.

I would argue we should have made a change after losing back to back series against Montreal and Columbus, but now they have the nice out of losing to TBay, and fans like yourself will completely ignore the past because we won a bunch of games against Montreal and NJ during the regular season.

I don't care that we haven't won a series in 19 years when judging the current core. They weren't around then and associating them with Leaf teams from the past is just bad logic.

If you bothered to read what I said in this thread, you would have noticed me explicitely stating I would be in full support of moving the core if we don't win a round next year. At that time both Matthews and Nylander would be one year away from UFA and they have too much value to risk having them walk for nothing. If you move them you should also move Marner, JT and Rielly because there's no way in hell this team can win a cup without Matthews and Nylander if they can't win with them.

Complain about fans like me all you want. At least I'm trying to put some thought and work into my understanding of the team and the situation they're in. Beats the hell out of wanting to purposefully close our window early because you can't wait one more year after a close series against the best franchise of the last decade.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I don't care that we haven't won a series in 19 years when judging the current core. They weren't around then and associating them with Leaf teams from the past is just bad logic.

If you bothered to read what I said in this thread, you would have noticed me explicitely stating I would be in full support of moving the core if we don't win a round next year. At that time both Matthews and Nylander would be one year away from UFA and they have too much value to risk having them walk for nothing. If you move them you should also move Marner, JT and Rielly because there's no way in hell this team can win a cup without Matthews and Nylander if they can't win with them.

Complain about fans like me all you want. At least I'm trying to put some thought and work into my understanding of the team and the situation they're in. Beats the hell out of wanting to purposefully close our window early because you can't wait one more year after a close series against the best franchise of the last decade.

"can't wait one more year" - I remember people saying this last year, too. I actually remember reading it in 2020 as well.

The problem is that you think making a change will 100% result in a worse team and closing the window. I simply don't agree. Ignore the past 3 years before this one if you want, but I don't throw away prime years because I have loyalty to a very good dude in Kyle Dubas.

You've made it pretty clear that regular season results are what drive your thinking, though, so I can understand why you would be married to the current group.

 

[Leafblooded]

Stay classy, Sunnyvale

 

[Sypher04]

That’s the problem with the comparison though. People are saying the Oilers beat a weak team but they are a weak team compared to us. So it’s all relevant. We didn’t beat Montreal, we didn’t beat Columbus.
The Oilers for whatever they are, did it. That’s the part people are missing. They did it. 6 times and we didn’t.

Edmonton is a dramatically better team than LA. They were heavy favorites in their series.

Ours was a coin flip that saw most people picking our opponent before the series began.

And I’m not missing anything.

I just don’t see how the two have anything to do with one another.

 

[Maplebeasts]

We f***ing lost to the Habs and Columbus the last two years

Also we love to give Dubas the "goalie'd" excuse for his loses. Calgary was actually being goalie'd.

You understand that you can get the same result while still showing some improvement right? I already acknowledged the Habs series was a brutal choke. The Leafs made some acquisitions heading into this season. The Leafs played a much better series overall this year against a much better opponent despite the loss. They also have another year before you either have to commit to this core or blow it up and start over. I'm taking you to the water; it's up you whether you drink or not.

 

[Maplebeasts]

"can't wait one more year" - I remember people saying this last year, too. I actually remember reading it in 2020 as well.

The problem is that you think making a change will 100% result in a worse team and closing the window. I simply don't agree. Ignore the past 3 years before this one if you want, but I don't throw away prime years because I have loyalty to a very good dude in Kyle Dubas.

You've made it pretty clear that regular season results are what drive your thinking, though, so I can understand why you would be married to the current group.

No I just don't think you can trade one of the core 4 and get back enough immediate help to get us over the hump. I would trade all of them if it meant we win the cup even once.