Re-tooling For One More Run With This Core

[deprw]

There is nothing wrong with admitting that Tampa best players weren't at their best in the 1st round. Kucherov was pretty bad for the most of the series and Point had some bad stretches. Vasi was a sub .900 through the 1st round and let in some goals that he normally doesn't give up.

Now look at how they're playing against the best team in the league this year. Kuch has 7 pts in his last 3 games and Vasi has only given up 4 goals in his last 4 games since waking up and has now brought his sv% back to a .922 and is back to his dominant self.

The Leafs played great for most of the series and did a great job of completely neutralizing their attack at times. Their players and coaches praised us and said it was one of the toughest matchups they've had but we can't act like it wouldn't have been a completely different series if Vasi was playing like he is now and Kucherov and Point weren't playing like ass at times.

Barkov and Florida's big guns are also under achieving, can we blame that on them being disinterested? Or what excuse they get if they can't get it done or don't light up in time? I have watched these Florida games and I don't see that much difference in Tampa's game. Stamkos and Kucherov were on fire at the end of the regular season and then they completly lost their touch? Or was it just our top line being better in their match up? I'd like to think the latter. All credit to Cirelli's line that neutralized our big guns at Tampa.

You can bash this front office, coaches and team on lot of things, but I don't get it why can't we admit that we played very well against Tampa Bay and they played also their game. It's unintelligent narrative always go to extremes with this basking on failure, where we have to even make excuses for our opponent not sweeping us. That team is most experienced playoff team at the moment, that knows everything about winning and was trending upwards before playoffs.

They start on time, but couldn't match. Found another gear and it was our demise. Way they shut down us in the last game is something that we have to learn in the future, so we can do that in sixth game or whenever we get the opportunity.

This is not towards you and I don't want to defend Dubas on this, because I didn't anticipate first round victory I anticipated Stanley Cup run. It wouldn't have made me happy that we first sweep someone and then lose to Florida or Tampa or whoever on second round.

Probably last 3-4 years. Last 2 years players they have acquired along with knight are competing now and getting eeady for future

I didnt say they were the gold standards. But they built a team with certain philosophy in mind. Their D sucks

But they got skill and grit

Their rebuild started basicly from drafting Ekblad. Have been long, slow and hard build for them. Barkov's third contract is starting next season.

 

[zeke]

. Stamkos and Kucherov were on fire at the end of the regular season and then they completly lost their touch? Or was it just our top line being better in their match up? I'd like to think the latter.

I give most of the credit to the excellent Muzz-Brodie pairing actually.

Florida's D was shallow enough even when Weegar-Ekblad was playing well, but both of these slowfoots have been getting exposed defensively regularly these playoffs and the rest of their D is a bunch of bottom pair dmen.

 

[Stephen]

Barkov and Florida's big guns are also under achieving, can we blame that on them being disinterested? Or what excuse they get if they can't get it done or don't light up in time? I have watched these Florida games and I don't see that much difference in Tampa's game. Stamkos and Kucherov were on fire at the end of the regular season and then they completly lost their touch? Or was it just our top line being better in their match up? I'd like to think the latter. All credit to Cirelli's line that neutralized our big guns at Tampa.

You can bash this front office, coaches and team on lot of things, but I don't get it why can't we admit that we played very well against Tampa Bay and they played also their game. It's unintelligent narrative always go to extremes with this basking on failure, where we have to even make excuses for our opponent not sweeping us. That team is most experienced playoff team at the moment, that knows everything about winning and was trending upwards before playoffs.

They start on time, but couldn't match. Found another gear and it was our demise. Way they shut down us in the last game is something that we have to learn in the future, so we can do that in sixth game or whenever we get the opportunity.

This is not towards you and I don't want to defend Dubas on this, because I didn't anticipate first round victory I anticipated Stanley Cup run. It wouldn't have made me happy that we first sweep someone and then lose to Florida or Tampa or whoever on second round.


Their rebuild started basicly from drafting Ekblad. Have been long, slow and hard build for them. Barkov's third contract is starting next season.

Well, Florida has been on one continuous rebuild since 2000 or whenever they traded Bure to the Rangers. Transitioned from the Luongo, Bouwmeester, Jokinen, Horton core into the Huberdeau, Barkov, Ekblad era without anyone even noticing. This group is actually quite a bit older than Toronto's, since Huberdeau (2011) Barkov (2013) are more in the Rielly age group than the Marner (2015), Matthews (2016) age group. They put it all together a lot later than the Leafs, but looking at the way they burned up picks and have bigger contracts coming online their regular season party might not last forever.

 

[Stephen]

I give most of the credit to the excellent Muzz-Brodie pairing actually.

Florida's D was shallow enough even when Weegar-Ekblad was playing well, but both of these slowfoots have been getting exposed defensively regularly these playoffs and the rest of their D is a bunch of bottom pair dmen.

Panthers fans seem to hate Weegar. He's like their Bryan McCabe-esque whipping boy. Super mistake prone but high profile with the hits and offensive combination.

 

[notDatsyuk]

it's just that you were caught by taking up an impossible to defend position and are now trying to pretend you were claiming something different. Nobody believes you meant he was the 3rd best center on the Leafs

I said I thought he should be 3C on the Leafs. That's all.

My mistake was correcting the numbers quoted in a response, even though that response was off topic.

 

[deprw]

Well, Florida has been on one continuous rebuild since 2000 or whenever they traded Bure to the Rangers. Transitioned from the Luongo, Bouwmeester, Jokinen, Horton core into the Huberdeau, Barkov, Ekblad era without anyone even noticing. This group is actually quite a bit older than Toronto's, since Huberdeau (2011) Barkov (2013) are more in the Rielly age group than the Marner (2015), Matthews (2016) age group. They put it all together a lot later than the Leafs, but looking at the way they burned up picks and have bigger contracts coming online their regular season party might not last forever.

Last few days there have been some discussions about what our rebuild reminds, if I'd make comparison for Florida it's 2000s Ottawa, but Ottawa bumped into salary cap and bad ownership. Florida is making it themselves. They have to retool after this season and they need even bigger retool season after that. It have been slow build. Zito have done good job, but he basicly moved every possible asset he could for this run.

 

[Dreakmur]

I said I thought he should be 3C on the Leafs. That's all.

My mistake was correcting the numbers quoted in a response, even though that response was off topic.

Here's the original post.

I don't mind their playing him with the right kind of players to optimize his ability. That's just good coaching.

What I object to is their still trying to pretend he's a 2C, and largely doing that because they grossly overpaid for a player who started to fade badly in the third year of a seven year contract (the NMC is just icing on the dirt cake).

He's still pretty good on the PP where he can win faceoffs and then stand in the slot but beyond that he's a 3C or 3W ( for 11M - ).

"preteding he's a 2C"

"he's a 3C or a 3W"

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Barkov and Florida's big guns are also under achieving, can we blame that on them being disinterested? Or what excuse they get if they can't get it done or don't light up in time? I have watched these Florida games and I don't see that much difference in Tampa's game. Stamkos and Kucherov were on fire at the end of the regular season and then they completly lost their touch? Or was it just our top line being better in their match up? I'd like to think the latter. All credit to Cirelli's line that neutralized our big guns at Tampa.

You can bash this front office, coaches and team on lot of things, but I don't get it why can't we admit that we played very well against Tampa Bay and they played also their game. It's unintelligent narrative always go to extremes with this basking on failure, where we have to even make excuses for our opponent not sweeping us. That team is most experienced playoff team at the moment, that knows everything about winning and was trending upwards before playoffs.

They start on time, but couldn't match. Found another gear and it was our demise. Way they shut down us in the last game is something that we have to learn in the future, so we can do that in sixth game or whenever we get the opportunity.

This is not towards you and I don't want to defend Dubas on this, because I didn't anticipate first round victory I anticipated Stanley Cup run. It wouldn't have made me happy that we first sweep someone and then lose to Florida or Tampa or whoever on second round.


Their rebuild started basicly from drafting Ekblad. Have been long, slow and hard build for them. Barkov's third contract is starting next season.

I'm not taking anything away from what the Leafs done. Just saying that if the Bolts best players were at 100% (mostly Vasi), it likely isn't 5he same series.

Same goes for the Leafs last year. Our big guys were bad for half the series against Montreal.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Here's the original post.



"preteding he's a 2C"

"he's a 3C or a 3W"

That's right. Glad you finally see it. Thanks

 

[Dreakmur]

That's right. Glad you finally see it. Thanks

I'm just happy I could help you find your way to a somewhat sane take.

 

[Menzinger]

I think acting like the Leafs level of play had no impact on the outcome (ie the Bolts apparently didn't play well as the only reason the series was as close) is just pure nonsense. It was as close as it could have came and the Leafs didn't get any of the right bounces in the final 60min where a single goal decided the outcome.

The bigger story of the playoffs is how much of a paper tiger the Panthers are. I lost count of the number of posts here praise them for supposedly building a "proper" playoff team.

 

[Dreakmur]

I think acting like the Leafs level of play had no impact on the outcome (ie the Bolts apparently didn't play well as the only reason the series was as close) is just pure nonsense.

It's a bit of both. Playing against a better team does make you look worse, but Kucherov and Vasilevskiy didn't play well for other reasons.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

One more run would imply we went on a run before. I’m still waiting for run number one from this group lol.

 

[JKG33]

I think acting like the Leafs level of play had no impact on the outcome (ie the Bolts apparently didn't play well as the only reason the series was as close) is just pure nonsense. It was as close as it could have came and the Leafs didn't get any of the right bounces in the final 60min where a single goal decided the outcome.

The bigger story of the playoffs is how much of a paper tiger the Panthers are. I lost count of the number of posts here praise them for supposedly building a "proper" playoff team.

They've flopped massively sure, but at least a flop for them still involves winning a round

 

[Mess]

I think acting like the Leafs level of play had no impact on the outcome (ie the Bolts apparently didn't play well as the only reason the series was as close) is just pure nonsense. It was as close as it could have came and the Leafs didn't get any of the right bounces in the final 60min where a single goal decided the outcome.

The bigger story of the playoffs is how much of a paper tiger the Panthers are. I lost count of the number of posts here praise them for supposedly building a "proper" playoff team.

Florida and Toronto were the #1 and #2 highest scoring teams in the league.

Florida (7th) and Toronto (8th) were the 2 worst goals against teams with the 2 most questionable goalies to enter the playoffs in the Eastern Conference.

These 2 teams are very similar to each other, and not like the Tampa Bay. This year was Florida's first series win in a salary Cap which is just slightly better than TO.

However both teams are really Regular Season Warriors burning up the standings with offense, but Paper Tigers come playoff time.

Defense not offense wins in the playoffs and Tampa Bay have the reigning Conn Smythe winning playoff MVP goalie in net and that is why they have won 9 straight series on his back and going for 10 starting tonight.

 

[Gallagbi]

Florida and Toronto were the #1 and #2 highest scoring teams in the league.

Florida (7th) and Toronto (8th) were the 2 worst goals against teams with the 2 most questionable goalies to enter the playoffs in the Eastern Conference.

These 2 teams are very similar to each other, and not like the Tampa Bay.

Defense not offense wins in the playoffs and Tampa Bay have the reigning Conn Smythe winning playoff MVP goalie in net and that is why they have won 9 straight series on his back and going for 10 starting tonight.

The Leafs allowed less goals than Tampa in their series.

 

[Menzinger]

Florida and Toronto were the #1 and #2 highest scoring teams in the league.

Florida (7th) and Toronto (8th) were the 2 worst goals against teams with the 2 most questionable goalies to enter the playoffs in the Eastern Conference.

These 2 teams are very similar to each other, and not like the Tampa Bay. This year was Florida's first series win in a salary Cap which is just slightly better than TO.

However both teams are really Regular Season Warriors burning up the standings with offense, but Paper Tigers come playoff time.

Defense not offense wins in the playoffs and Tampa Bay have the reigning Conn Smythe winning playoff MVP goalie in net and that is why they have won 9 straight series on his back and going for 10 starting tonight.

Though the Leafs have up less goals against than Tampa over the 7 game sample. And each team's starting goalie ended the series with an identical sv%.

Seems that the Leafs played arguably better defensively that series and still lost.

The series in the grand scheme of things ended incredibly closely.

 

[Gabriel426]

Though the Leafs have up less goals against than Tampa over the 7 game sample. And each team's starting goalie ended the series with an identical sv%.

Seems that the Leafs played arguably better defensively that series and still lost.

The series in the grand scheme of things ended incredibly closely.

The fact that Panthers never had a chance in the series since Game 2 and Leafs actually had the chance to win shows the difference between the Leafs and the Panthers. Having said that, what’s the point of being the tallest of the midgets.

 

[Ignatius Reilly]

It's a bit of both. Playing against a better team does make you look worse, but Kucherov and Vasilevskiy didn't play well for other reasons.

It seems so obvious to me that it's a bit of both.

I don't get why everyone seems to feel it's got to be 100% one or 100% the other.

I do think that being 2 x winners helped TB to wake up and kick themselves up a notch. They knew they had an extra gear and they'd proven it.

We had 2 chances to close out and we couldn't do it. Even with home ice. That makes me think we just might have a great President's Trophy team build. And that's a lot of fun to watch for about 82+6 games.....

 

[Dekes For Days]

There is nothing wrong with admitting that Tampa best players weren't at their best in the 1st round.

There is nothing wrong with admitting that diminished play in Tampa's best players was a result of playing against us, not because they just suddenly decided to suck sometimes, in between ending the season red-hot and sweeping the President's trophy winners.

Do people really have to try and discredit even the smallest positives about our series by pretending these veteran, battle-tested champions weren't trying and giving it their all?

We already had the refs actively stealing games from us in the series. We don't need our own fans making up excuses for Tampa.

 

[Clark4Ever]

In my opinion, Tampa Bay's relatively easy sweep of the Panthers reinforces the premise that we do not need a major roster shake up.

It's easy to say they weren't at their best against us, but I think it was more of a case that we gave them everything they could handle.

 

[Bluelines]

Rumors from insiders:

- Toronto is targeting TJ Miller, Vancouver has interest in Nylander and Lily, not saying both could be in a deal but it would one or the other at the very least. Vancouver would want players who could be on their roster next year.

- Toronto has had interest in Gibson for at least two years, it is believe that Toronto is goign to go hard after John Gibson. Anaheim has interest in Robertson. Anaheim would want prospects.

- With Gio now signed + prospects near their NHL debut, it's believed that one or both of Sandin and Lily will be on the move. It benefits no one to have one or both of those players sitting in the pressbox next year, it would depreciate the value of both assets.

- Perron was rumored to be a target.

-Kerfoot, Mrzek, Mikheyev, Kase, Blackwell, Campbell, Simmonds will not be back. Simmonds will be banished to press box or asked to retire.

 

[29Potvin]

Well, Florida has been on one continuous rebuild since 2000 or whenever they traded Bure to the Rangers. Transitioned from the Luongo, Bouwmeester, Jokinen, Horton core into the Huberdeau, Barkov, Ekblad era without anyone even noticing. This group is actually quite a bit older than Toronto's, since Huberdeau (2011) Barkov (2013) are more in the Rielly age group than the Marner (2015), Matthews (2016) age group. They put it all together a lot later than the Leafs, but looking at the way they burned up picks and have bigger contracts coming online their regular season party might not last forever.

Fla has 8 UFA and 3 RFA 16 players signed and just under 4mil in cap for next season.
Chiarot/Hagg/Giroux/Acciari/Marchment as the notable player that are UFA
Bob has been an awful playoff goalie 17-29 .901sv% and 3.13gaa for a guy making 10mil for the next 4 seasons

 

[Dreakmur]

There is nothing wrong with admitting that diminished play in Tampa's best players was a result of playing against us, not because they just suddenly decided to suck sometimes, in between ending the season red-hot and sweeping the President's trophy winners.

Do people really have to try and discredit even the smallest positives about our series by pretending these veteran, battle-tested champions weren't trying and giving it their all?

We already had the refs actively stealing games from us in the series. We don't need our own fans making up excuses for Tampa.

Tampa won. Only losers need excuses..... like the referees costing us games....

 

[Dekes For Days]

Tampa won. Only losers need excuses.....

Then it's pretty odd that people (you included) keep making excuses for Tampa.